AMBASSADOR'S NOVEMBER 9 MEETING WITH DEFENSE

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 JAKARTA 005612

E.O. 12958: DECL: 02/05/09
TAGS: PGOV PINS PHUM PINR MILI ID
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR'S NOVEMBER 9 MEETING WITH DEFENSE
MINISTER JUWONO SUDARSONO


1. (U) CLASSIFIED BY DATT/ARMA - COL JOSEPH H. DAVES, USA,
REASON, 1.5 (B) AND (D).


2. (C) SUMMARY: DURING A FRIENDLY 75 MINUTE DISCUSSION,
NEWLY APPOINTED MINISTER FOR DEFENSE AND SECURITY DR.
JUWONO SUDARSONO SIGNALED THAT HE IS SERIOUS ABOUT
IMPLEMENTING FUNDAMENTAL, LONG TERM MILITARY REFORMS.
WHILE CLEARLY RECOGNIZING THE TOUGH CHALLENGES AHEAD
FOR THE MILITARY, MINISTER SUDARSONO SAID ALL THE RIGHT
THINGS IN DESCRIBING HIS VISION FOR A MORE PROFESSIONAL
VALUES-BASED ARMED FORCES. SUDARSONO EXPRESSED
CONCERN OVER THE INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION OF INQUIRY
(COI) THAT WILL INVESTIGATE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN
EAST TIMOR. NOT ONCE DID HE MENTION HIS PREDECESSOR,
GENERAL WIRANTO.


3. (C) THE AMBASSADOR CONVEYED THE U.S. DESIRE TO SUPPORT
THE TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY OF INDONESIA, TO HELP BUILD
STRONG DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS AND TO HELP INDONESIA
DEVELOP AN OPEN, MARKET-ORIENTED ECONOMY. HE
EMPHASIZED THE IMPORTANCE OF SOLVING THE WEST TIMOR
REFUGEE PROBLEM ONCE AND FOR ALL SO THE NEW GOVERNMENT
IN JAKARTA WILL RECEIVE THE INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT IT
DESERVES. HE ASKED FOR MINISTER SUDARSONO'S ASSISTANCE IN
ESTABLISHING FORMAL LIAISON BETWEEN INTERFET AND TNI TO
ADDRESS BORDER ISSUES AND ASSIST WITH OVERLAND RETURN OF
REFUGEES. END SUMMARY.
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 03 JAKART 05612 01 OF 04 101034Z


4. (C) ON NOVEMBER 9, THE AMBASSADOR PAID AN
INTRODUCTORY CALL ON THE NEWLY APPOINTED MINISTER OF
DEFENSE AND SECURITY, DR. JUWONO SUDARSONO. ALSO IN
ATTENDANCE WERE FOREIGN POLICY ADVISOR MG ALBERT
PARUNTU, CHIEF OF FOREIGN RELATIONS FIRST ADMIRAL ZULKIFI
LUBIS AND MILITARY SECRETARY COLONEL BAMBANG HERU
SUKMADI. DATT/ARMA ACCOMPANIED THE AMBASSADOR AS
NOTETAKER.

GUS DUR MEETING WITH THE PRESIDENT
--------------

5. (C) THE AMBASSADOR CONGRATULATED SUDARSONO AS
INDONESIA'S FIRST CIVILIAN MINISTER OF DEFENSE AND SECURITY
IN OVER 40 YEARS AND ANNOUNCED WITH PLEASURE THAT
PRESIDENT CLINTON WOULD MEET WITH PRESIDENT WAHID ON
FRIDAY IN WASHINGTON DC, DESPITE AN EXTREMELY TIGHT
SCHEDULE AND ONGOING BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN THE
WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS. PRESIDENT CLINTON HAS MADE
TIME TO SEE PRESIDENT WAHID BECAUSE THE U.S. VIEWS GOOD
RELATIONS WITH THE NEW INDONESIAN GOVERNMENT TO BE
CRITICALLY IMPORTANT, HE SAID.

STRONG COMMITMENT TO MILITARY REFORMS
--------------

6. (C) MINISTER SUDARSONO SAID HE IS FULLY COMMITTED TO
MILITARY REFORMS. AS THE FIRST CIVILIAN DEFENSE MINISTER
SINCE 1947, HE CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD THAT HE "SYMBOLIZES A
NEW BEGINNING," MAKING IT THAT MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAT
HE "TAKE THE RIGHT STEPS." HE OUTLINED THE MANY
CHALLENGES FACING THE NEW GOVERNMENT IN DEVELOPING THE
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 04 JAKART 05612 01 OF 04 101034Z
VIABLE INSTITUTIONS IN THE INDONESIAN SOCIETY THAT WILL
SUPPORT AND SUSTAIN GRADUAL DEMOCRATIZATION AND ENABLE
THE INDONESIAN ARMED FORCES TO MOVE AWAY FROM THE
POLITICAL ROLE TNI HAD PLAYED FOR THE PAST 15 YEARS TO
BECOME A MORE PROFESSIONAL FORCE. HE SAID THE CURRENT
PROBLEMS OF THE MILITARY ARE NOT TOTALLY TNI'S FAULT SINCE
THE ARMED FORCES WERE MISUSED BY THE CIVILIAN
GOVERNMENT IN THE PAST. THE ARMY IS NOW ACCEPTING ITS
NEW ROLE IN A MORE DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY, HE SAID.


7. (C) MINISTER SUDARSONO EMPHASIZED THE SEVERE IMPACT OF
THE ECONOMIC CRISIS THAT CAUSED GDP PER CAPITIA IN
INDONESIA TO PLUMMET FROM USD 1300 IN EARLY 1997 TO ABOUT
USD 600 PRESENTLY. THE LOWER MIDDLE CLASS AND POOR HAVE
BEEN ESPECIALLY HARD HIT, HE SAID. THAT IS WHY THERE HAS
BEEN SO MUCH SOCIAL UNREST AND VIOLENCE IN THE COUNTRY;
SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE LOST THEIR LIVELIHOOD AND HOPE. THE
RESULTANT SECURITY PROBLEMS HAVE MADE TNI'S ROLE MORE
DIFFICULT AND COMPLICATED INTERNAL MILITARY REFORMS.
SUDARSONO SAID THE ARMED FORCES FIRST NEED TO DEVELOP
THE RIGHT DOCTRINE, THEN PROCEED WITH MEASURED STEPS TO
REFORM THE MILITARY INSTITUTION.


8. (C) SUDARSONO EXPRESSED CONCERNS ABOUT "THE
UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF GLOBAL MARKET ECONOMICS,"
THAT CAN HAVE A DEVASTATING EFFECT ON CERTAIN PARTS OF
SOCIETY IN DEVELOPING ECONOMIES LIKE INDONESIA. THIS IS
ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR THOSE WITHOUT THE REQUISITE SKILLS TO
PARTICIPATE IN THE GLOBAL MARKETPLACE, HE SAID.

OUR GOAL IS TO HELP INDONESIA SUCCEED
--------------

9. (C) THE AMBASSADOR TOLD SUDARSONO THAT PEOPLE HAVE
HIGH EXPECTATIONS FOR THE WAHID GOVERNMENT. THE
ELECTIONS WERE A "TRIUMPH FOR DEMOCRACY" AND HE HAD
PERSONALLY BEEN IMPRESSED BY THE NEW PRESIDENT'S VISION
FOR THE COUNTRY. THE AMBASSADOR CONVEYED THE U.S. DESIRE
TO SUPPORT THE TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY OF INDONESIA, TO HELP
BUILD STRONG DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS AND TO HELP
INDONESIA DEVELOP AN OPEN, MARKET-ORIENTED ECONOMY. THE
NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST OF THE U.S. IS A STRONG, UNITED
INDONESIA TO SERVE AS AN ANCHOR OF STABILITY FOR THE
SOUTHEAST ASIAN REGION. INSTABILITY IN INDONESIA WOULD
CAUSE PROBLEMS THROUGHOUT ASIA, HE SAID. IN ACCORDANCE
WITH INDONESIA'S WANTS AND DESIRES, THE AMBASSADOR SAID
THE U.S., AS THE OLDEST DEMOCRACY IN THE WORLD, IS PREPARED
TO OFFER EXPERT ASSISTANCE WITH ISSUES OF DEMOCRATIC
TRANSITION AND CONFLICT RESOLUTION, RESTRUCTURING OF THE
JUSTICE SECTOR AND ECONOMIC REFORMS, IN ADDITION TO CIVIL-
MILITARY RELATIONS AND MILITARY REFORMS. OUR GOAL IS TO
HELP INDONESIA SUCCEED, HE SAID.

DESIRE FOR IMPROVED BILATERAL MILITARY RELATIONS
-------------- --

10. (C) THE AMBASSADOR EXPRESSED HIS STRONG DESIRE TO GET
BACK TO A NORMAL MILITARY RELATIONSHIP WITH INDONESIA. HE
SAID THE U.S. LOOKS FORWARD TO HAVING SUDARSONO VISIT
WASHINGTON AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME TO MEET WITH
SECRETARY COHEN AND PERHAPS SOME MEMBERS OF CONGRESS;
CINCPAC ADMIRAL BLAIR ALSO LOOKS FORWARD TO MEETING HIM
AND ADMIRAL WIDODO, HE SAID. MINISTER SUDARSONO SAID
THAT BILATERAL MILITARY RELATIONS CURRENTLY IS THE MOST
CRUCIAL AREA OF INDONESIA-U.S. RELATIONS. THE AMBASSADOR
EMPHASIZED THE IMPORTANCE OF EXPEDITING WEST TIMOR
REFUGEE RETURNS AS AN ACTION THAT WOULD HELP OPEN THE
DOOR TO CLOSER DEFENSE COOPERATION.

GOALS AND VISION FOR MILITARY REFORMS
--------------

11. (C) IN RESPONSE TO THE AMBASSADOR'S QUERY ON GOALS
AND VISION FOR MILITARY REFORMS, MINISTER SUDARSONO SAID
THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT IS TO REVISE THE LONG-TERM
DEFENSE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. AGAIN, SUDARSONO SAID IT IS
IMPORTANT TO QUICKLY RESTORE BILATERAL MILITARY
RELATIONS, ESPECIALLY IMET (THE U.S. INTERNATIONAL MILITARY
EDUCATION AND TRAINING PROGRAM). SUDARSONO SAID HE
WOULD LIKE TO SEND A CORE GROUP OF 15 TO 20 OF TNI'S BEST
AND BRIGHTEST OFFICERS FROM ALL THREE SERVICES (INCLUDING
JUNIOR, MID-GRADE AND SENIOR OFFICERS FROM EACH SERVICE)
TO THE U.S. FOR IMET TRAINING. THIS "HORIZONTALLY
INTEGRATED" GROUP OF OFFICERS WOULD BE KEPT TOGETHER FOR
THE NEXT 10 TO 15 YEARS AND EMPLOYED IN LONG TERM
PLANNING AND IMPLEMENTATION OF MILITARY REFORMS, HE SAID.


12. (C) CONTINUING, SUDARSONO SAID THAT INDONESIA MUST
DEVELOP COLLABORATIVE AND AFFORDABLE MUTUAL SECURITY
ARRANGEMENTS WITH ITS NEIGHBORS (SPECIFICALLY MENTIONING
SINGAPORE AND AUSTRALIA). "OUR BIG PROBLEM IS MONEY," HE
SAID. IT WILL BE HARD TO CONVINCE THE NEW LEGISLATURE TO
GIVE THE DEFENSE MINISTRY MORE MONEY UNDER CURRENT
CONSTRAINED ECONOMIC CONDITIONS.

WEST TIMOR REFUGEE RETURNS A TOP PRIORITY
--------------

13. (C) THE AMBASSADOR PROVIDED IMPRESSIONS FROM HIS
RECENT VISIT TO WEST AND EAST TIMOR. HE HAD BEEN
IMPRESSED, HE SAID, BY THE SINCERITY OF WEST TIMOR
GOVERNOR PIET TALLO AND OTHER GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS IN
THEIR DESIRE TO RESOLVE THE REFUGEE PROBLEM IN WEST TIMOR.
OFFICIALS IN WEST TIMOR ARE POSITIVELY MOTIVATED AND THE
U.S. GOVERNMENT IS PREPARED TO PROVIDE APPROPRIATE
ECONOMIC ASSISTANCE IN WEST TIMOR, AS WELL AS EAST TIMOR,
HE SAID. HOWEVER THE REFUGEES MUST BE GIVEN A FREE CHOICE.
THERE ARE STILL PROBLEMS WITH MILITIA MEMBERS IN THE
REFUGEE CAMPS PREVENTING THE FREE MOVEMENT OF THOSE
WHO WISH TO RETURN. THE MILITIAS ARE UNDERMINING THE
GOVERNOR'S AUTHORITY, THE AMBASSADOR SAID. THIS IS A
PROBLEM BECAUSE EAST TIMOR IS STILL GETTING IN THE WAY OF
THE STRATEGIC ISSUE - THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY'S
ABILITY TO SUPPORT INDONESIA IN THIS NEW MORE DEMOCRATIC
PHASE OF THE NATION'S HISTORY. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT THE
REFUGEE ISSUE BE SOLVED ONCE AND FOR ALL TO GAIN THE NEW
GOVERNMENT IN JAKARTA THE INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT IT
DESERVES. MINISTER JUWONO RESPONDED POSITIVELY TO THIS
MESSAGE AND PROMISED TO WORK TOWARD THIS GOAL.

NEED FOR LIAISON BETWEEN TNI AND INTERFET
--------------

14. (C) THE AMBASSADOR ASKED FOR MINISTER SUDARSONO'S
ASSISTANCE IN ESTABLISHING FORMAL LIAISON BETWEEN
INTERFET AND TNI TO ADDRESS BORDER ISSUES AND ASSIST WITH
OVERLAND RETURN OF REFUGEES. INTERFET COMMANDER MG
COSGROVE HAS ACTIVEY SOUGHT, BUT SO FAR HAS BEEN UNABLE
TO SET UP ANY FORMAL COORDINATION PROCESS ON BORDER
ISSUES WITH TNI. SUCH A LIAISON ARRANGEMENT IS CRITICALLY
IMPORTANT TO LOWER TENSIONS, PROMOTE MUTUAL
UNDERSTANDING, TO FACILITATE MOVEMENTOF REFUGEES BACK
ACROSS THE BORDER INTO EAST QIMOR, AND AVOID ANY FURTHER
UNFORTUNATE BORDEQ INCIDENTS BETWEEN INTERFET AND
INDONESIAN SECRITY FORCES. THE U.S. STRONGLY SUPPORTS
SUCHCOOPERATION. EXISTING "AD HOC" COMMUNICATIONS ARE
SIMPLY NOT ADEQUATE TO FACILITATE THE FLOW OF PEOPLE AND
COMMERCE ACROSS THE BORDER. WITH HEAVY RAINS ALREADY
STARTED, A BROAD CONFIDENCE BUILDING MECHANISM IS
URGENTLY NEEDED TO FACILITATE REFUGEE RETURNS, HE SAID.


15. (C) IN RESPONSE TO MINISTER SUDARSONO'S SUGGESTION
THAT THE ISSUE BE TAKEN UP WITH THE FOREIGN MINISTRY, THE
AMBASSADOR EMPHATICALLY REMONSTRATED THAT THE
PROBLEM IS ON THE GROUND. IT IS TOTALLY NECESSARY TO HAVE
PROVISIONS FOR DIRECT COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN SECURITY
FORCES TO LOWER TENSIONS AND AVOID FURTHER ACCIDENTS.
SUDARSONO AGREED THAT A PARALLEL DIPLOMATIC AND
PRAGMATIC APPROACH IS NEEDED TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM AND
PROMISED TO HELP.

MILITIA STATUS
--------------

16. (C) THE AMBASSADOR EXPRESSED HOPE THAT IN THE FUTURE,
EAST TIMOR WILL BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN A CLOSE AND POSITIVE
RELATIONSHIP WITH ITS BIG NEIGHBOR, INDONESIA, AND SAID IT IS
FORTUNATE THAT XANANA GUSMAO IS A MODERATE AND
REASONABLE PERSON. MINISTER SUDARSONO AGREED THAT IT
WAS A GOOD THING THAT XANANA WAS TREATED WELL DURING
HIS DETENTION IN JAKARTA. "XANANA STILL HAS MANY FRIENDS
HERE," HE SAID. SUDARSONO SAID IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF
XANANA WOULD SEND MORE SIGNALS OF RECONCILIATION TO
THOSE PRO-INTEGRATION SUPPORTERS REMAINING IN WEST TIMOR.
THE GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO ENCOURAGE THOSE MILITIA
MEMBERS WHO DO NOT WANT TO RETURN TO EAST TIMOR TO
LEAVE WEST TIMOR AND SETTLE ELSEWHERE IN THE COUNTRY
WITH GOVERNMENT HELP. HOWEVER, MANY WOULD LIKE TO
RETURN IF THEIR SAFETY COULD BE GUARANTEED. THEY WOULD
PREFER TO WAIT IN WEST TIMOR AND MANY HAVE REFUSED TO
LEAVE THE ISLAND, HE SAID.

CONCERN OVER AN INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION OF INQUIRY
-------------- --------------

17. (C) MINISTER SUDARSONO SAID THAT THE SYMBOLISM OF THE
HUMANITARIAN EFFORTS IN WEST AND EAST TIMOR MATCHES GUS
DUR'S RECONCILIATORY PHILOSOPHY AND VISION. AT THE SAME
TIME, SUDARSONO EXPRESSED CONCERN OVER THE
INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION OF INQUIRY (COI) THAT WILL
INVESTIGATE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN EAST TIMOR. THE
AMBASSADOR SAID THAT IT IS FORTUNATE MARZUKI DARUSMAN,
THE NEW INDONESIAN ATTORNEY GENERAL AND HEAD OF THE
NATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION (KOMNAS HAM),HAS
EXCELLENT CREDIBILITY WITH THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.
A CREDIBLE KOMNAS HAM INVESTIGATION WITH THE FULL
COOPERATION OF THE INDONESIAN MILITARY WOULD DIMINISH
THE PRESSURE FOR INTERNATIONAL INVOLVEMENT, HE SAID.
HOWEVER, THE AMBASSADOR ADDED, THE HEAD OF THE COI,
SONIA PICADO, A PERSONAL FRIEND AND A TRUE PROFESSIONAL,
WOULD TAKE A REASONABLE, LOW KEY APPROACH TO THE
INVESTIGATION WITHOUT RESORTING TO A MEDIA CIRCUS.
KOMNAS HAM SHOULD WORK QUIETLY WITH THE INTERNATIONAL
COI AND AVOID PUBLIC CONFRONTATION, HE SAID.


18. (C) THE AMBASSADOR MENTIONED SEVERAL ISSUES IN
CLOSING. HE SAID AMBASSADOR HOLBROOKE PLANS TO VISIT
JAKARTA ON 19 OR 20 NOVEMBER AND WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO
MEET SUDARSONO AND OTHER KEY MINISTERS. THE AMBASSADOR
MENTIONED RECENT DIFFICULTIES IN OBTAINING TNI FLIGHT
CLEARANCE TO OPERATE THE USDAO C-12 AIRCRAFT IN COUNTRY,
ASKING FOR THE MINISTER'S ASSISTANCE TO RESOLVE THIS
PROBLEM AND EMPHASIZING THE NEED FOR EMBASSY MEMBERS
TO TRAVEL FREELY IN THE COUNTRY. THE AMBASSADOR
EXPRESSED THE STRONG DESIRE FOR CONTINUED CLOSE
COOPERATION ON COUNTER-TERRORISM MATTERS AND OFFERED
TO SEND AN EMBASSY REPRESENTATIVE TO PROVIDE MINISTER
SUDARSONO WITH A DETAILED BRIEFING ON THIS SUBJECT.
FINALLY, THE AMBASSADOR BRIEFLY DISCUSSED THE U.S.
LEGISLATION ON MILITARY TRANSPARENCY AND PROVIDED
MINISTER SUDARSONO WITH A MORE DETAILED NON-PAPER ON THE
ISSUE. MINISTER SUDARSONO WAS ALREADY GENERALLY
KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THE LEGISLATION.


MYERS