FIRST CONVERSATION WITH NEW AFGHAN PRESIDENT

CONFIDENTIAL KABUL 3619





E.O. 11652: GDS

TAGS: PGOV, PTER, PINT, AF, US

SUBJECT: FIRST CONVERSATION WITH NEW AFGHAN PRESIDENT



1. MUR MOHAMHAD TARAKI, THE PRESIDENT OF AFGHANISTAN'S NEW

REVOLUTIONARY COUNCIL, AND HE LIKES TO BE CALLED "MR. PRESIDENT,"

RECEIVED ME ALONE IN HIS OFFICE AT THE OLD PRIME MINISTRY BUILDING

AT 5 P.M. ON MAY 6, I WAS RECEIVED AT THE ENTRANCE OF THE BUILDING

BY THE SAME CHIEF AND DEPUTY CHIEF OF PROTOCOL WHO HAD SERVED THE

PREVIOUS REGIME. AS AN INDICATION OF THE TIMES, THE DEPUTY CHIEF,

WHO IS A MOHAMMADZAI, STARTED WEEPING WHEN I ASKED HIM ABOUT HIS

FAMILY. IT WAS IN THIS MOOD THAT HE USHERED ME INTO HIS NEW CHIEF'S

OFFICE. SECURITY PRECAUTIONS SEEMED TO BE MINIMAL, WITH ONLY ONE

ARMORED VEHICLE VISIBLE IN THE COMPOUND OF THE PRIME MINISTRY.



2. TABAKI GREETED ME WITH A WARM HANDSHAKE AND A FRIENDLY SMILE,

DULY RECORDED BY PHOTOGRAPHERS. WE THEN SAT DOWN IN THE CORNER OF

HIS OFFICE AND EXCHANGED A FEW PLEASANTRIES WHILE OUR PICTURES

CONTINUED TO BE SNAPPED. I GOT A GOOD LAUGH FROM HIM WHEN I SAID I

WAS SORRY I HAD NOT MET HIM DURING MY FOUR AND ONE-HALF YEARS IN

AFGHANISTAN -- AND EVEN SORRIER DURING THE PAST NINE DAYS. TARAKI

SPOKE EXCELLENT, IF SOMEWHAT RUSTY, ENGLISH.



3. TARAKI BEGAN HIS CONVERSATION BY RECOUNTING WITH OBVIOUS PRIDE

AND RELISH THE SUCCESS OF HIS REVOLUTION, STRESSING THAT IT IS A

REVOLUTION AND NOT A COUP. HE SAID ON THURSDAY, APRIL 27, THE TANKS

FIRST MOVED IN THE DIRECTION OF KABUL ABOUT 9 A.M., BUT TOOK MORE

THAN TWO HOURS TO REACH THE CENTER OF THE CITY. BY EVENING, THE

DAOUD REGIME HAD LOST THE BATTLE, ALTHOUGH THEY TRIED IN VAIN

DURING THE NIGHT TO SEND REINFORCEMENTS FROM CENTRAL CORPS

HEADQUARTERS AND FROM KARGHA. WITH THE COMING OF DAYLIGHT, HE SAID,

THE AIR FORCE WAS ABLE TO FINISH THE JOB. MEANWHILE, WITHIN THE

PALACE DAOUD HAD BEEN ASKED TO SURRENDER, BUT REFUSED, SHOT AT HIS

ATTACKERS, AS DID HIS WIFE AND FAMILY, AND WAS THEREFORE KILLED.

THE INTENTION, SAID TARAKI, HAD BEEN TO TAKE HIM AS A CAPTIVE.

TARAKI ADDED THAT DAOUD PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN COURT-MARTIALED

AND POSSIBLY SHOT. TARAKI HAD YESTERDAY

THE SOLDIER WHO HAD BEEN SHOT BY DAOUD'S "WHITE PISTOL".



4. TARAKI THEN SAID HE WAS SURPRISED THAT I HAD NOT BEEN THE FIRST

AMBASSADOR TO CALL ON HIM, BECAUSE WHAT HE IS TRYING TO ESTABLISH

IN AFGHANISTAN IS A "GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, AND FOR

THE PEOPLE." CORRECTING HIMSELF A BIT, HE SAID HE HAD ASKED THE SAME

QUESTION OF THE PAKISTANI AMBASSADOR BECAUSE PAKISTAN AND AFGHANISTAN

HAVE SO MUCH IN COMMON, CULTURALLY AND ETHNICALLY.



5. I THEN EXPLAINED THAT IN CASES LIKE THIS, WE DO NOT EXTEND FORMAL

RECOGNITION BUT INDICATE, AS WE HAVE DONE, THAT WE WANT TO CONTINUE

NORMAL DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS. I SAID, IN FACT, WE HOPE TO HAVE CLOSE

WORKING RELATIONS WITH THE NEW GOVERNMENT. I ADDED, AS OUR NOTE

STATED, THAT I HOPE HIS GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE A CHANCE SOON TO

AFFIRM THE VALIDITY OF EXISTING TREATIES AND AGREEMENTS. HE MAD NO

COMMENT ON THAT SUGGESTION.



6. AT SEVERAL POINTS DURING THESE PRELIMINARY EXCHANGES, TARAKI

REFERRED TO THE TIME HE HAD SPENT IN THE UNITED STATES, HIS

FRIENDSHIP FOR AMERICANS, AND HIS LIKING FOR THE AMERICAN QUALITY OF

FRANKNESS. WE AGREED THAT AFGHANS AND AMERICANS HAVE LOTS IN COMMON

IN THIS REGARD.



7. I THEN STATED I WANTED TO BE FRANK WITH HIM. I SAID THAT, AS HE

KNEW, THE UNITED STATES HAD NEVER SOUGHT ANY STRATEGIC OR POLITICAL

ADVANTAGE FROM AFGHANISTAN. HE AGREED. I SAID THAT ONE OF THE CARDINAL

POINTS OF OUR POLICY IS TO HELP AFGHANISTAN MAINTAIN ITS INDEPENDENCE,

ITS INTEGRITY, AND ITS NATIONAL IDENTITY. HE NODDED ENTHUSIASTICALLY.

I SAID THAT SINCE THE BRITISH LEFT INDIA, IT WAS OUR VIEW THAT THE

ONLY COUNTRY THAT COULD POSSIBLY THREATEN AFGHANISTAN'S INDEPENDENCE

IS THE SOVIET UNION. IN PAST TIMES, I NOTED, OUR POLICY HAD BEEN TO

TRY TO CONSTRUCT BLOCS AGAINST SOVIET EXPANSIONISM, BUT THAT OUR

APPROACH TO THIS PROBLEM HAD, IN THE COURSE OF TIME BECOME MORE

SOPHISTICATED.



I STATED WE COULD READILY UNDERSTAND -- GIVEN AFGHANISTAN'S

GEOGRAPHIC POSITION AND ECONOMIC NEEDS -- WHY IT WOULD WANT A CLOSE

RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SOVIET UNION. BUT, I SAID, WE WOULD BE DISTURBED

IF AFGHANISTAN'S FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC POLICIES WERE TO BECOME

INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM THOSE OF THE SOVIET UNION BECAUSE THAT WOULD

OBLITERATE AFGHANISTAN'S NATIONAL IDENTITY AND WOULD GIVE RISE TO

TENSIONS IN THIS PART OF THE WORLD WHICH COULD THREATEN PEACE. I SAID

THAT IT IS IN THIS CONTEXT THAT WE APPRECIATE AFGHANISTAN'S NONALIGNED

POLICY.



8. IN RESPONSE, TARAKI AFFIRMED THAT AFGHANISTAN IS AND DESIRES TO

REMAIN AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY AND MASTER OF ITS OWN DESTINY. HE SAID HE

WAS PLEASED THAT THE UNITED STATES TAKES A MORE FLEXIBLE VIEW OF THE

WORLD AND ADMITS, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT IT MADE A MISTAKE IN VIETNAM. HE

REFERRED TO HIS BEING IN WASHINGTON DURING THE DAYS OF SENATOR MCCARTHY,

AND NOTED THAT THE THEN VICE PRESIDENT NIXON HAD REFUSED ONCE TO COME

TO AN AFGHAN EMBASSY RECEPTION BECAUSE AFGHANISTAN WAS TOO CLOSE TO THE

SOVIET UNION. HE WAS PLEASED THAT THAT IS NO LONGER THE APPROACH THE

UNITED STATES TAKES TOWARD HIS COUNTRY.



9. I THEN SAID THAT IN EVALUATING THE POLICIES OF A GOVERNMENT IN A

DEVELOPING COUNTRY LIKE AFGHANISTAN, THE UNITED STATES WOULD LOOK FIRST

AND FOREMOST AT WHAT THAT GOVERNMENT IS DOING TO RAISE THE STANDARD OF

LIVING OF ITS PEOPLE AND TO ASSURE THE MAINTENANCE OF HUMAN RIGHTS --

ECONOMIC, SOCIAL, POLITICAL, AND LEGAL. AT THIS POINT, TARAKI BECAME

MUCH MORE ANIMATED AND HELD FORTH AT SOME LENGTH ON THE SUBJECT OF HOW

HIS GOVERNMENT WANTS TO HELP THE PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN. HE SAID THAT HE

AND HIS COLLEAGUES -- UNLIKE HIS PREDECESSORS, REALLY CARE ABOUT THE

POOR PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY AND HAVE NO INTEREST IN PUTTING MONEY IN

SWISS BANKS. HE SAID THAT IN JUDGING HIS GOVERNMENT'S POLICIES, WE

SHOULD ASK THE PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN WHETHER THEY THINK THEY ARE

SUCCESSFUL. IN THE PAST, HE BELIEVED FOREIGNERS TENDED TO ASK THE

ARISTOCRATS WHO, OF COURSE, WERE NOT INTERESTED IN HELPING THE POOR

BECAUSE SUCH A POLICY WOULD THREATEN THEIR OWN PROSPERITY. REGARDING

HUMAN RIGHTS, TARAKI SAID THIS IS A VERY COMPLICATED PROBLEM AND THAT

EACH NATION MUST JUDGE FOR ITSELF THE KIND OF HUMAN RIGHTS THAT ARE MOST

SUITED TO ITS OWN SITUATION AND CULTURE. HE MADE IT CRYSTAL CLEAR THAT

HE WOULD NOT WANT US TO MAKE VALUE JUDGEMENTS WHICH WOULD BE TANTAMOUNT

TO INTERFERENCE IN AFGHANISTAN'S INTERNAL AFFAIRS. I ASSURED HIM THAT

THE UNITED STATES HAD NO DESIRE TO TRY TO TRANSPLANT ITS GOVERNMENTAL

SYSTEM ELSEWHERE, BUT THAT WE, NEVERTHELESS, CARE DEEPLY ABOUT HUMAN

RIGHTS.



10. TARAKI THEN SAID HIS GOVERNMENT WOULD JUDGE OTHER GOVERNMENTS BY

THEIR WILLINGNESS TO HELP AFGHANISTAN. HE SAID THAT HIS GOVERNMENT'S

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PLANS HAD NOT YET BEEN FORMULATED, BUT THAT HE

WOULD BE ASKING US FOR ASSISTANCE AS, INDEED, HE WOULD BE ASKING THE

SOVIET UNION AND OTHER COUNTRIES. HE SAID THAT THE PRINCIPAL SLOGAN,

ADDING THAT HE REALLY MEANT POLICY AND NOT SLOGAN, OF HIS GOVERNMENT IS

TO PROVIDE BREAD, CLOTHING, AND SHELTER FOR THE MASSES. I DESCRIBED OUR

AID PROGRAM OF RECENT YEARS AND ITS EMPHASIS ON HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND

AGRICULTURE FOR THE RURAL POOR. HE SAID HE WOULD TELL ME, AS HE HAD

TOLD THE SOVIET AMBASSADOR, THAT OUR RESPECTIVE AID PFORAMS HAD FAILED,

AND THAT THE FAILURE WAS DUE TO THE LACK OF COMMITMENT OF THE PREVIOUS

REGIME. I SAID I AGREED WITH HIM THAT OUR AID PROGRAM HAD NOT ACHIEVED

ITS GOALS. HE ASKED ME WHY. I REPLIED THAT HE KNEW HIS OWN COUNTRY

BETTER THAN I, AND THAT I WOULD MERELY SAY THAT THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT

WAS NOT CAPABLE OF IMPLEMENTING THE KIND OF PROGRAM THAT WE WISHED TO

SEE IMPLEMENTED. HE OBVIOUSLY TOOK GREAT PLEASURE IN MY SAYING THIS.



11. TARAKI THEN SAID HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I UNDERSTOOD WHAT HE

MEANT BY "BREAD". HE SAID HE WANTS TO PROVIDE JOBS FOR THE THOUSANDS OF

AFGHANS WHO HAVE LEFT THE COUNTRY TO WORK IN IGNOMINY ABROAD. THIS WILL

MEAN THE CONSTRUCTION OF INDUSTRY AND INFRASTRUCTURE, AND HE HOPED WE

WOULD HELP WITH THAT. I TOLD HIM THAT ONCE THE APPROPRIATE MINISTERS IN

HIS GOVERNMENT WERE PREPARED TO DISCUSS SUCH MATTERS WITH US, MY AID

MISSION DIRECTOR AND I WOULD BE HAPPY TO DO SO.



12. I THEN SAID THAT ONE OTHER MATTER OF IMPORTANCE TO THE UNITED

STATES IS THE STABILITY OF THIS REGION IN THE WORLD. I SAID WE HAVE BEEN

DELIGHTED AT THE PROGRESS THAT HAS BEEN MADE IN RECENT YEARS IN

DEVELOPING REGIONAL COOPERATION. TARAKI SAID THAT THAT WAS, OF COURSE,

A MATTER THAT HIS GOVERNMENT WOULD BE STUDYING. HE ALSO SAID THAT WHEN

ONE TALKS OF REGIONAL COOPERATION, THAT MEANS NOT ONLY COOPERATION WITH

INDIA, PAKISTAN, AND IRAN -- BUT ALSO WITH THE SOVIET UNION.



13. THE CONVERSATION ENDED WITH PLEASANTRIES AS IT HAD BEGUN. HE SAID

THAT HE HOPED THE SOVIET UNION WOULD NOT JUDGE HIM BADLY IF HE BUILT MORE

MOSQUES. BY THE SAME TOKEN, HE HOPED WE WOULD NOT JUDGE HIM BADLY IF HE,

HIMSELF, DID NOT GO TO A MOSQUE. HE CONCLUDED BY SAYING THAT EVERYTHING

HE HAD TOLD ME HE HAD ALSO TOLD THE SOVIET UNION.



14. COMMENT: TARAKI IS A SLIM, WHITE-HAIRED, PROFESSIONAL MAN WHO LOOKS

SOMEWHAT OLDER THAN 61. HE HAS THE CHAN AND EMPATHY THAT ONE LEARNS TO

ASSOCIATE WITH AFGHANS. HE IS ALSO CLEARLY HARDHEADED AND EXHILARATED BY

HIS SUCCESS. WHEN HE IS PARTICULARLY ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT A POINT HE IS

MAKING, HIS EYES ASSUME A FIERCE, INTENSITY. OUR CONVERSATION WAS

EXTREMELY CORDIAL AND WAS ALSO, I THINK, A REAL DIALOGUE.



ELIOT