Secretary Clinton's May 7, 2009 Meeting with

S E C R E T STATE 049495


E.O. 12958: DECL: 05/07/2029
TAGS: PREL PGOV
SUBJECT: Secretary Clinton's May 7, 2009 Meeting with
Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov.


1. Classified by EUR Assistant Secretary Daniel Fried.
Reason: 1.4 (d)


2. (U) May 7, 2009; 12:00pm; Washington, DC, United
States.


3. (S) Participants:

U.S.
The Secretary
Under Secretary Burns
NSC Senior Russia Director McFaul
EUR Assistant Secretary Fried
Ambassador Beyrle
PA DAS Kelly
EUR/RUS Director Watson (Notetaker)

RUSSIA
Foreign Minister Lavrov
Ambassador Kislyak
Deputy Foreign Minister Ryabkov
Deputy Foreign Minister Saltanov
North American Dept. Director Neverov
Head of Foreign Minister's Secretariat Ivanov
Information and Press Counselor Zakharova
Russian Embassy Counselor Stepanov (Notetaker)



4. (S) SUMMARY. The Secretary met with Foreign Minister
Lavrov for one hour on May 7. By the time of the
Summit, now set for July 6-7, they agreed to work to
complete the substantive report on START, agreements on
Material Consolidation and Conversion and Plutonium
Disposal, and a presidential "Joint Nuclear Security
Statement." They also agreed to pursue a follow on work
plan on nuclear facilities. Agreement was near on the
economic dialogue. Both sides agreed to follow up on
JDEC, military to military cooperation and a lethal
transit agreement on Afghanistan. END SUMMARY.

--------------
Secretary/Lavrov Meeting
--------------


5. (S) The Secretary said the Presidents' July meeting
provided an opportunity for significant progress forward
in relations, including ambitious agenda the Presidents
had instructed them to undertake when they met April 1
in London. The July meeting was set for Moscow on July
6-7 with departure July 8. She and Foreign Minister
Lavrov agreed that the White House and Kremlin would
coordinate announcement next week of the dates.



6. (S) START: The Secretary repeated the goal set by the
presidents, namely a substantive report on the status of
the START negotiations at the time of the July summit.
We had made a good start in negotiations; she had
received good reports from our negotiator in Rome.
Noting that further talks were set May 19-21 in Moscow
and June 2-4 in Geneva, Lavrov said that completing the
Framework Agreement will be a challenge in that time
period, but we should encourage our teams to get it
done. Russia's military would need to review specific
language. Acknowledging the challenge of meeting the
summit deadline, the Secretary said she wanted best
efforts from both sides as agreed in London. Lavrov
said that the negotiators need substance from the
agencies. Once the START deal was reached, he proposed
reaffirming with the Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan
that the 1994 Budapest Agreement guarantees remained in
full force. The Secretary agreed that U.S.-Russia
leadership in this area was key.


7. (S) Nuclear Security and Non-Proliferation: The
Secretary proposed collaborating on a presidential
"joint nuclear security statement" to share best
practices world wide as well concluding agreements on
Material Consolidation and Conversion and Plutonium
Disposal. Lavrov concurred with drafting a joint
nuclear security statement. He noted that the
Presidents had already agreed on the substance of the
material draft. He called for making as much progress
on non proliferation as possible and said that at NPT
PrepCom the five UNGA members who possess nuclear
weapons need to take the lead. As another example of
how the United States and Russia are responsible
stewards of nuclear stockpiles and seeking further steps
on non-proliferation, the Secretary noted that
resubmission to the Congress of the 123 Agreement was
under consideration, but progress on these other steps
would help. Expressing hope for a response to the non-
paper on the UNSC 1540 process for non-state actors he
passed in Geneva, Lavrov noted that G8, OSCE, and UNSC
could all discuss the matter. The Secretary agreed that
proliferation is among the most pressing threats we face
and said that having the Summit focus on this would send
a strong message. Lavrov encouraged the U.S. to move
forward to ratify CTBT because it would remove a pretext
that other countries hide behind. McFaul noted that the
Administration was discussing this with Congress.
Lavrov raised U.S. plans about ratification of the CTBT;
NSC Senior Director McFaul responded that the
Administration intended to approach the Congress about
it. Lavrov hoped this process could be completed before
the NPT Review Conference in 2010.


8. (S) Joint Date Exchange Center (JDEC): The Secretary
said that the United States wants to bring into effect
the June 2000 agreement that expires in 2010. To do so
would require finding a new site for which she was
prepared to send a delegation to Moscow in mid-May.
Lavrov said he would need to discuss this with the
military.


9. (S) Missile Defense: Noting that the Missile Defense
review would soon be complete, the Secretary expressed
hope for more cooperation on MD. Lavrov reminded her
that he was still waiting for a response on the non-
paper he had passed her in The Hague which built on the
proposal for a cooperative MD approach Putin made at
Kennebunkport in July 2007 (that approach offered some
access to Russian radar facilities in southern Russia
and Azerbaijan, but was predicated on U.S. abandonment
of any MD sites in Poland and the Czech Republic as a
pre-condition). He called for looking at theatre missile
defense in a cooperative manner. The Secretary called
his objective worthy and said both nations could turn
cooperation into increased global security. She pointed
out that some who possess or are seeking nuclear weapons
do not share our values. Lavrov agreed. He stressed,
however Russia does not accept the American linkage
between the MD third site and the Iranian threat.
Russian analysis, he said, demonstrates that the
Polish/Czech location is not directed at Iran but at
Russia. Russia was not complacent about Iran's
technology. President Medvedev had been concerned about
Iran's missile launch which had shown a greater level of
capability than expected, and Russia will be watching
Iranian developments closely. This argued for a
collective missile system. He added that one could not
say MD was an area of difference between the U.S. and
Russia until after the U.S. had finished its MD review.


10. (S) Bilateral Architecture and Dialogues: Lavrov
noted that in addition to post-START and nuclear
security/non-proliferation initiatives, the July Summit
should include launch of an economic dialogue and the
Presidents' endorsement of the bilateral "Action Plan"
being worked on by the two governments. Assistant
Secretary Fried confirmed that we appeared to be close
to agreement on the Action Plan. Noting that MOD was
ready to revive high-level military-to-military
discussions, Lavrov suggested that he and the Secretary
place the military-to-military dialogue, including
General Staff talks for which the Russian MOD was now
ready, under the broader umbrella of a Foreign
Minister's-led umbrella group. Lavrov continued that he
and the Secretary should consider whether to continue
the 2+2 format. It might be difficult to schedule such
a meeting in June; doing so in the fall would be better,
he said. The Secretary said the USG was considering the
broad umbrella proposal as well as 2+2, and would get
back to the Russians. We did support robust military-
to-military exchanges. Lavrov added that the mil-mil
dialogue was included in the action plan and reporting
through foreign ministers to the presidents was
possible. Under Secretary Burns agreed that it was
logical.


11. (S) European Security: The Secretary expressed
willingness to discuss Russia's views on European
Security in an appropriate forum and to hear its ideas.
She urged Lavrov to help get the NATO Russia Council
(NRC),a meeting of which Russia had just canceled, back
on track. Lavrov clarified that Russia did not cancel
any NRC meeting, but said that the timing had not been
settled when the "unfortunate" developments (NATO's
expulsion of two Russian diplomats due to espionage-
related activity). This was a provocation, he claimed,
that had put the Russians in the unfortunate position of
having to ask the Canadians to leave the NATO
Information Office in Moscow, he said. We should,
Lavrov, continued, use all available structures to
discuss European security, including President
Medvedev's ideas. He stressed that Russia did not want
to undermine existing security structures and sought to
be sure no one felt uncomfortable. It was possible as
well to involve NGOs, such the East-West Institute led
by John Mroz.


12. (S) Afghanistan: Lavrov said that Russia was ready
to discuss Afghanistan in line with what the Presidents
had said in London. The Secretary expressed interest in
transit of lethal and non-lethal equipment to
Afghanistan through Russia and said the U.S. wanted to
negotiate this. She added that Russian AIR navigation
fees were a problem. There are other ways to cooperate
such as on border issues she continued. The Afghanistan
Pakistan Talks sought to increase the sense that those
two countries need to cooperate on border security and
to open transit routes.


13. (S) DPRK: In a brief exchange, the Secretary and
Lavrov agreed to continue cooperation; the Secretary
expressed appreciation for Russia's recent efforts.
Lavrov noted that China was considering changing the
format of the six party talks as a way to get the DPRK
back to the table. Lavrov suggested that we not run
after the DPRK so that they could save face when they
reengaged.


14. (S) Middle East: The Secretary noted that
Ambassador Rice would attend Russia's Middle East
Conference May 11 in New York. She encouraged Lavrov to
work through the quartet and bilateral partnership and
through the UN. This month Netanyahu and Abbas will
come to Washington. Postponing engagement with the
Palestinians is no longer possible, she added. She
expressed appreciation for Russia's efforts. Lavrov
said that the joint statement for the New York
conference should be finished soon and Russia was
pushing the Arabs to compromise. A resolution on the
settlements was critical. The Europeans would accept
anything that comes out of this. The Secretary agreed
to work through the Israeli community in the US and
encouraged Lavrov to work through the Russian Israeli
community in the US to impress on the Israelis how
problematic this was becoming.


15. (S) Iran: Noting that while there was still no
proof that Iran was developing nuclear weapons, Lavrov
said Russia wanted Iran to join the NPT now. He
expressed hope the latest Political Directors meeting in
London would stimulate Iran to go back to the
negotiating table. The Secretary said the United States
takes seriously Israel's fear of Iran and its intentions
(and developing capabilities) and sought to engage Iran
through the P5+1. She was sending messages to Iran
through various channels. Lavrov said that if the U.S.
dealt with Iran comprehensively and directly, it could
not avoid dealing with Israel.


16. (S) Georgia: Lavrov stated that both the U.S. and
Russia want stability in the Caucasus, and that we
should not allow it to divide us, adding that the
Georgians "deserve better". He was concerned about the
latest developments, including that Georgia had
"canceled" the incident prevention mechanism with the
South Ossetians scheduled for May 7 because "they wanted
it in their territory." (Note: The Geneva agreement
was that sessions should rotate. At the first
prevention mechanism meeting on April 29, all parties
agreed that the May 7 meeting would be held in Gori, but
on the eve of the meeting the South Ossetians announced
that they would not attend meetings in Georgia proper.
End note.) In response to the Secretary's question on
the Russian position on the OSCE and UNOMIG in Georgia,
Lavrov replied that a continuous presence in South
Ossetia would be useful, and Russia would like the OSCE
to help stabilize and monitor the situation, prevent
human rights violations and ethnic clashes. Assistant
Secretary Fried refuted Lavrov's claim that the Russian
proposal to the Greeks was status neutral, noting that
the Greeks did not see it that way. Using familiar
arguments, Lavrov maintained that the South Ossetians no
longer trust the OSCE, and as they are the victims in
this situation, "we cannot demand anything from them."
Turning to UNOMIG, Lavrov reported that Russia is
waiting for UN Secretary General's report on Georgia,
due on May 15, but assumed that the UNOMIG mandate will
be renewed with a focus on confidence building measures
and using UN observers wherever possible.


17. (S) Transnistria: The Secretary expressed
appreciation for Russia's continued efforts in the Minsk
Group. Lavrov noted that talks were going on in Prague
May 7 among the three co chairs (U.S., Russia and
France). Assistant Secretary Fried committed to
maintaining the momentum.


18. (S) Nagorno-Karabakh: With the recent Turkey and
Armenia normalization agreement, the Secretary expressed
hope that we could soon achieve a breakthrough in the NK
negotiations, and in particular on the Lachin corridor.
Lavrov urged a strong push to settle Nagorno-Karabakh
this year before the next election cycle. The Secretary
agreed, saying that Presidents Obama and Medvedev should
push to achieve finalization of the Basic Principles
this year. Lavrov urged a strong push to settle
Nagorno-Karabakh this year before the next election
cycle in Armenia and Azerbaijan.


19. (S) Other Issues

WTO: The Secretary said that the U.S. was ready to
engage on WTO with Russia. USTR Kirk could discuss what
is needed to finalize WTO accession when he is at the
St. Petersburg Economic Forum in June.

Rule of Law: The Secretary said she was pleased that
Medvedev met with human rights groups and an opposition
newspaper. Noting that Paul Klebnikov's family had
recently visited her, she called for continued work on
this case. Lavrov responded that Russia was prepared to
discuss human rights issues, and welcomes pragmatic,
depoliticized mechanisms like the channel through the
Carnegie Endowment and Russia's Human Rights Ombudsman
(Ambassador Lukin). He also urged that the U.S. and
Russia support one another's candidates for the UN Human
Rights Council.

Jackson Vanik: The Secretary noted that the U.S. was
making a concerted effort to work with Congress to
graduate Russia from the strictures of the Jackson Vanik
Amendment. Lavrov replied that it was a U.S. problem
and Russia would not raise it anymore.

Arctic: The Secretary called for deeper cooperation on
the Arctic. She asked Lavrov to permit a National
Science Foundation expedition to take core samples from
two sites in the Bering Sea in July. He replied that a
formal request was needed. He agreed on the need to
cooperate on the Arctic as noted in Geneva and as the
Presidents noted. The Five Arctic Littoral States
should show leadership in the Arctic Council.

Visas: Lavrov mentioned the request for visas for
Kobzon and Derispaska. If the U.S. has derogatory
information about Viktor Bout, now in custody in
Thailand, it should share this with Russia.

Pirates: Lavrov proposed a new tribunal for trying
pirates. The Secretary agreed to look into it.

Ship visit: Lavrov noted that Russia approved the visit
of a USN ship to Vladivostok on Victory Day.


CLINTON