SAUDI MINISTER OF COMMERCE ON IPR, WOMEN, CHAMBER

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 JEDDAH 000297 SIPDIS DEPARTMENT FOR NEA/ARP; EEB/ESC; DRL DEPARTMENT PLS PASS TO USTR FOR CHRIS WILSON USDOC PASS TO USCS RIYADH, JEDDAH, DHAHRAN E.O. 12958: DECL: 09/11/2019 TAGS: ECON ETRD PGOV PREL SA SOCI SUBJECT: SAUDI MINISTER OF COMMERCE ON IPR, WOMEN, CHAMBER OF COMMERCE ELECTIONS REF: JEDDAH 291 JEDDAH 00000297 001.2 OF 003 Classified By: Consul General Martin R. Quinn for reasons 1.4(b) and (d ) ¶1. (C) Summary. Charge (Ambassador Richard Erdman) met in Jeddah August 9 with Minister of Commerce Abdullah Zainal Alireza for a wide-ranging and productive discussion of economic and political issues. During the 90-minute discussion Minister Alireza stressed the importance of India for the Kingdom,s transition to a knowledge-based society, noting he had just returned from an IT-focused mission there. He said the Saudi leadership was absolutely committed to a process of opening up Saudi society, including expanded opportunity for women, but would do so at a gradual pace that avoided upheaval and "chaos" that set the country back. Noting progress in expanding the role of women in the economy to date, he downplayed recent changes promulgated by the Ministry of Commerce regarding voting procedures at chambers of commerce which would appear to threaten women's progress, affirmed his support for women candidates and board members in those cities "where society is ready," and said he would use his authority to appoint women where appropriate. In response to Charge,s expression of concern about IPR protections in the Kingdom, the Minister said the Saudi leadership and he personally were committed to "100 per cent implementation of commitments;" promised to again stress the importance of respecting IPR at the next Council of Ministers meeting; promised to take action on a third-party audit of SAG computers without delay; welcomed a Microsoft proposal to fund inspectors and train young Saudis in IPR monitoring; and expressed interest in taking advantage of the Commercial Law Development Program for IPR training for judges, while noting this was primarily a Justice Ministry issue. Alireza welcomed a USTR visit this fall, proposed raising the TIFA dialogue to ministerial level, and noted his agreement with the Secretary of Commerce to hold a Saudi-American forum. Meeting was joined by CG, EconOff and USCSOff. End summary. Trip report on India -------------- ¶2. (C) Minister Alireza opened the meeting by noting he had just returned from a mission to India that had focused on the IT sector. India, he explained had growing importance for Saudi Arabia's next five-year plan, which focuses on a "knowledge economy." Referencing the Al Aghar ad hoc think tank of 300 Saudi men and women from the private sector, who convened five years ago under the leadership of current Education Minister Faisal bin Abdullah to map out a strategic vision for the future of the Saudi economy, Alireza spoke of plans to invest in the Indian information technology (IT) sector and to import Indian IT professionals to leverage India's comparative advantage in that domain. ¶3. (C) Charge commented that at some point in the future after the oil is exhausted -- in 60, 80, or 100 years, Saudi Arabia would have to look to new sources of economic growth, and this meant shifting from reliance on what is under the ground to reliance on human capital. The Kingdom has only three to four generations in which to make this transition, which is all the more challenging because it touches on sensitive cultural and social attitudes and issues. Alireza readily agreed, commenting that "We must change. We will no longer be the gas station for the world. That is behind us." Charge observed the Saudi economy could never fully develop or be competitive as long it denied itself the human capital and contributions of half its citizens. In this regard, a recent article on the highest scoring students in exams in Medina, in which 57 per cent of the students scoring 95 or higher were women, was instructive. If this statistic was at all reflective of the broader picture, limited opportunity for women meant the Kingdom was denying itself not only the talents of half its population, but a solid majority of the most promising members of the younger generation. Strong support for women -- but not Kingdom-wide -------------- --- ¶4. (C) Alireza said he was pleased by the achievements of Saudi women and completely agreed that continued progress JEDDAH 00000297 002.2 OF 003 needed to be made in integrating women into the economy. That said, one had to walk a fine line between support for the advancement of women generally and recognition of the risks of permitting vanguard women leaders to move faster than society at large. "We won't move fast enough to allow society to disintegrate into chaos or to spark a reaction that sets back women,s rights," he declared, holding up Iraq as an example of just such an outcome. Women there, he contended, had more rights before the war and a Shi'a ascendancy would further restrict their position in society. "The leadership knows what it's doing" and favors the expansion of women's participation in society "in those regions of the Kingdom which are ready." Medinah, Makkah and Riyadh were examples of places where society has signaled discomfort with women in leadership positions at the Chambers of Commerce, he said, noting societal resistance as the reason why he decided not to use his power to appoint women to the boards of those chambers. Conversely, Jeddah was ready -- as demonstrated by the recent success of Nashwa Taher who presided over the first Jeddah Commercial Forum (reftel). Alireza also mentioned his appointment of JCCI board member Olfat Kabbani to chair a forum this October on "productive families," a cryptic title evidently intended to reach out to conservatives while promoting female participation in the economy. New Chamber of Commerce election rules could disadvantage women -------------- ¶5. (C) Regarding rumors swirling around the format and rules for upcoming JCCI elections this fall, Alireza said that the previous practice of slates of candidates running together in blocs led to post-election infighting among Chamber boards all over the country, necessitating intervention by the Ministry. "Inappropriate people" had been elected in some Chambers simply by allying themselves with the right groups. Alireza claimed that since he changed the rules to permit only individuals to run for office, these problems had been eliminated in those cities which had subsequently held elections. Asked what would happen if, lacking the support of powerful slates, no women were elected to the JCCI board this time around, the Minister more than once emphasized that he had the power to appoint six board members. When pressed as to whether he would appoint women if no women were elected, he repeated this statement. (Comment: This position directly contradicts the understanding of businesswomen in Jeddah who believe Alireza has said publicly he will appoint only as many women as the number who are elected -- just as the previous minister did four years ago.) Ready to move forward with government-wide IPR audit -------------- -------------- ¶5. (C) Charge raised U.S. and U.S. IT sector concerns about IPR violations in the Kingdom, especially by Saudi ministries and government entities. Noting the Minister's interest in building the IT sector in Saudi Arabia with Indian help and the Kingdom,s ambition to move to a knowledge-based economy, Charge said improving its record on IPR should be a priority. IPR protections were especially critical for the IT sector, and here the Kingdom seriously lagged behind its GCC neighbors. To attract serious players and be competitive, it needed to move immediately to improve its record and performance in this area. In this regard, Charge noted that in the spring we had proposed the idea of a third-party audit to ascertain whether any ministries were violating IPR belonging to U.S. licensors, but had never heard back from Saudi authorities. In addition, we had raised the idea of having a U.S IT firm fund IT inspectors, in the process training a cadre of young Saudis who could at some point take over this inspection/monitoring function. ¶6. (C) Alireza responded that he had visited Microsoft's Redmond, Washington headquarters in May, where he discussed this very subject with Dorothy Dwoskin, a former Assistant USTR and now Microsoft's Senior Director of Global Trade Policy and Strategy. During the meeting, he said, he agreed to Microsoft sending, at its expense, auditors to the KSA for three months to begin the audit process and also to train Saudis to take over after the auditors leave. Asked about JEDDAH 00000297 003.2 OF 003 next steps and timing, Alireza at first said he would need to sit with the new ministers and set up a committee to see how to proceed so that no one would be surprised when Microsoft showed up. Pressing him for concrete action, Charge asked if a royal directive were feasible. Alireza said a royal decree was not necessary but he would raise the issue at the next Council of Ministers meeting and, more formally, send a letter as Commerce Minister to the government, which would then send a letter to the royal court which would in turn circulate it among the ministries. He noted that he is continually reminding all in the government that every commitment the SAG has taken under the WTO must be fulfilled "100 per cent," without any deviation: "What we have committed to, we will do." Charge welcomed this assurance, stressing the importance of WTO compliance in attracting foreign investment, a major Saudi objective. Special 301 and TIFA Dialogue discussed -------------- ¶7. (C) Charge also raised the planned out-of-cycle Special 301 review and proposed visit of Assistant USTR Chris Wilson. Alireza welcomed this visit and, noting a previous discussion with DCM Rundell, confirmed their desire to elevate the TIFA Dialogue from the deputy to the ministerial level. He added that he and the Secretary of Commerce have agreed to co-host a Saudi/American Forum and that both parties should begin as soon as possible to plan for this event. ¶8. (C) Charge raised the judicial training programs in IPR offered by the Department of Commerce,s Commercial Law Development Program, noting his prior experience in Algeria, where such programs had been quite successful. The programs included both in-country and U.S.-based training, with trainees offered the opportunity to trail judges, observing first-hand how such cases are developed and prosecuted in the United States. Charge observed that we had offered such training in a letter last April to the Ministry of Justice, but had never received a response. Alireza expressed interest in IPR judicial training, while noting this was a Justice Ministry, not a Commerce Ministry responsibility. Nevertheless, he asked Charge to forward him a copy of the letter advising of such training possibilities, implying he would try to get the Justice Ministry to focus on our offer. ¶9. (U) Ambassador Erdman has cleared this message. QUINN