VENEZUELAN SCIENTISTS SAY NUCLEAR ENERGY PROGRAM

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 CARACAS 000026

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SUBJECT: VENEZUELAN SCIENTISTS SAY NUCLEAR ENERGY PROGRAM
POLITICAL HOT AIR

Classified By: Economic Counselor Darnall Steuart for reasons 1.4
(b) and (d).


1. (C) Summary: In late 2008, Chavez once again made
statements regarding his plans to develop a nuclear power
program in Venezuela and went so far as to sign an agreement
with Russia's Rosatom on nuclear energy cooperation. Several
local nuclear physicists are skeptical arguing that nothing
came of the Venezuelan government's interest in nuclear power
in the 70's and nothing will come of it today. The
scientists argued the government has demonstrated little
interest in domestic nuclear research and the result has been
antiquated labs with only a handful of Venezuelan experts in
the field. Nevertheless, they did not discount the Chavez
Government's willingness to purchase a nuclear power plant
lock, stock and barrel from Russia if it could get the
financing, although they believe this unlikely given
Venezuela's looming economic crisis. End Summary.

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RUSSIAN CONSTRUCTION OF NUCLEAR PLANTS UNLIKELY
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2. (C) In November 2008, Chavez trumpeted that he had high
hopes for a nuclear reactor constructed with Russian
technology in the Venezuelan state of Zulia to be called the
"Huberto Fernandez Moran Nuclear Complex". On December 2,
Econoffs met with three scientists from Venezuela's only
fully functional nuclear physics research lab at public
University Simon Bolivar (USB). XXXXXXXXXXXX (strictly
protect throughout,) noted Chavez' recent statements on
nuclear power were reminiscent of those he made in 2005.
XXXXXXXXXXXX speculated that if Russia would offer Venezuela
enough credit for plant construction, Venezuela would be
happy to accept. XXXXXXXXXXXX, who after the
meeting identified himself as a Russian-educated scientist of
Cuban origin, added that the Russians are fully capable of
building adequate plants but they would take five to eight
years to complete and would cost billions of dollars. (Note:
Although the Director General of Rosatom State Nuclear
Energy Corporation signed an agreement to cooperate with
Venezuela on nuclear energy on November 26, international
press reports on December 8 indicated no Russian loans or
credits will be forthcoming for costly nuclear power projects
in part due to Venezuela's uncertain financial future. End
Note.)

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VENEZUELAN GOVERNMENT NOT SERIOUS ABOUT NUCLEAR POWER
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3. (C) The second in command at the lab, XXXXXXXXXXXX (strictly protect throughout,) said he has "heard this talk before in the 70's" when the government
was much more serious about developing a nuclear power
program and even went so far as to identify several potential
sites for hypothetical reactors. XXXXXXXXXXXX was adamant that
"nothing came of it then, and nothing will come of it now."
There is only sporadic interest in nuclear power in
Venezuela, which, he noted, is rational given that Venezuela
is a petroleum rich state.


4. (C) XXXXXXXXXXXX added that behind every nuclear power
project is a team of strong scientists. Unfortunately, he
said, Venezuelan politicians are not talking to the
scientists. He agreed that the current discussion of
developing a domestic nuclear energy program in Venezuela is
only talk, as there are no serious scientists involved and no
project is underway. Even if the government of the
Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela (GBRV) were serious, he
said, it would take 10 to 15 years to make substantial
progress towards developing a nuclear energy program using
domestic resources.


5. (C) XXXXXXXXXXXX asserted that his lab at USB has the most
domestic expertise and would be the most likely talent pool
if the GBRV was in the market for government advisors or
program heads. He added that the GBRV had recently
approached him about serving as a government advisor on
nuclear power, but he had declined citing his workload.
XXXXXXXXXXXX said he hopes the government will tap the USB lab at

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some point to spearhead nuclear power research, with the
accompanying funding, as he agrees with President Chavez on
Venezuela's need to diversify its energy sources. He noted
that his scientists are currently collaborating with the
National Experimental Politech University of the Bolivarian
Armed Forces, UNEFA, on developing a course, as the military
seems to have a new interest in giving its cadets a nuclear
physics background. (Note: XXXXXXXXXXXX is hopeful this
collaboration might translate into more funding for his lab,
which currently looks more like a museum than a functioning
research center. End Note.)

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BARRIERS TO DEVELOPING A NUCLEAR POWER PROGRAM
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6. (C) The scientists argued that the GBRV's failure to
support serious nuclear research has resulted in antiquated
labs, restrictive policies that inhibit academic research,
and a dearth of experts in the field. They also noted lack
of uranium as another limiting factor. In May 2005 when
Chavez announced his plans to start a nuclear energy program,
media reports at that time indicated that according to
government research in the 70's, there might be three
substantial uranium deposits in Venezuela. XXXXXXXXXXXX, however,
was firm in his assertion that Venezuela has little uranium.
His friend, respected Venezuelan geologist, often jokes with
him that "yes there is a uranium mine, but no one knows where
it is." XXXXXXXXXXXX added that Venezuela has thorium which can
be mixed with other radioactive materials and might someday
replace uranium in nuclear reactions.


7. (C) In addition to a lack of natural resources, XXXXXXXXXXXX said
there is also a severe deficiency in "manpower". He claimed
that all of the scientists in Venezuela capable of running or
even assisting with a nuclear power program were in the room.
(Three scientists were present). He said he knew perhaps
130 former students that had the academic credentials, but
almost all of them were "either selling shoes or building
shopping malls." He said the USB lab is now focusing more on
health diagnostics as there is a commercial interest in such
research.


8. (C) XXXXXXXXXXXX also implied he was not impressed with the
quality of the government's staff in the sector. XXXXXXXXXXXX is his
former student. XXXXXXXXXXXX. While
the Directorate has its own lab, XXXXXXXXXXXX said he has personally
verified that none of its equipment works. He noted that the
Directorate is a purely bureaucratic operation where
scientists do not conduct research but rather attend numerous
conferences abroad. When work needs done, the Directorate
will occasionally bring in experts and contract out research
projects. As an additional example of the government's
failures in the sector, he cited Venezuela's sole, and now
defunct, reactor at the GBRV's Venezuelan Institute for
Scientific Research (IVIC). USB, he said, carried off pieces
of the 1950's era reactor several years ago for student
experiments.


9. (C) XXXXXXXXXXXX finished his list of serious challenges facing
the development of a Venezuelan nuclear power program by
complaining about his inability to get permission from the
USG to obtain equipment or even data from the US. He said
the Venezuelan government is even more difficult to work with
as it will not give him licenses to import any radioactive
material. XXXXXXXXXXXX has consequently taken to bringing in
undeclared material in his pocket. He stated he flew in with
a "source" from California in this manner even though the
University warned him he could end up in jail. He ignored
the warning saying the Venezuelan government does not seem to
be particularly interested in the fact that all of the
radioactive material in the USB lab is currently illegal
under Venezuelan law. XXXXXXXXXXXX added that anything students
or professors do with the radioactive material is also
illegal. After 20 years of his best efforts, XXXXXXXXXXXX has yet
to get GBRV approval for radioactive material handling
regulations he wrote himself based on manuals he obtained
from the Imperial College of London and a US university. In
another "illegal" practice, XXXXXXXXXXXX said that his scientists
regularly go scavenging for radium from old Venezuelan
hospitals that they store on the USB campus.

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COMMENT
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10. (C) In spite of Chavez' grand public statements, the
academic community believes the GBRV continues to demonstrate
that it is uninterested in, or unable to develop a domestic
nuclear energy program. It has instead hamstrung the efforts
of the handful of its scientists with an interest in the
area. Scientists seem inclined to agree with a member of
Argentina's National Atomic Energy Commission who in 2005 was
quoted as saying "on a scale of zero to five, nuclear power
development within Venezuela does not reach one. It is not
only behind Brazil and Argentina, it is also behind Chile,
Mexico and Peru." Nevertheless, the USB scientists seemed
confident that if Venezuela one day finds a country willing
to sell its technology on credit, however unlikely given
Venezuela's looming financial trouble, the GBRV would be more
than willing to buy. Regardless of whether or not nuclear
power plants make sense in a petroleum rich country, high
profile projects that give the rest of the world cause for
concern hold a certain appeal for Chavez.

GENNATIEMPO