HUD SECRETARY DONOVAN MEETS WITH LEADING ARGENTINE HOUSING

UNCLAS BUENOS AIRES 000416 SENSITIVE SIPDIS E.O. 12958: N/A TAGS: ECON EIND EFIN PREL PGOV AR SUBJECT: HUD SECRETARY DONOVAN MEETS WITH LEADING ARGENTINE HOUSING EXPERTS -------------- Summary -------------- ¶1. (SBU) A lunch hosted by the Ambassador in honor of Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Shaun Donovan was attended by a range of notable Argentines representing the development, architectural, financial, business, and government sectors, as well as by the DCM. After prior meetings with official representatives, including Minister of Planning Julio de Vido and Mayor of Buenos Aires Mauricio Macri, this event was an opportunity for Secretary Donovan to hear the views of individuals who have been intimately involved with the history of housing real estate development and finance in Argentina over the past few decades. The discussion tended to focus on the economic issues that drive housing development and the ways in which subsidies can be useful. A major portion of the discussion focused on the current housing situation in the U.S. and its response to the crisis affecting single-family home mortgages. It ended with Argentine guests agreeing that President Obama has the highest approval rating of any politician in Argentina. End Summary. -------------- The U.S. Experience -------------- ¶2. (SBU) In response to widespread curiosity about the situation in the U.S., the Secretary observed that the U.S. Government needs to be aggressive in garnering support for its solutions to the current crisis. He noted that, with 45% of December 2008 home sales being distressed, mortgage solutions have the support of two-thirds of the population. The Secretary said it was necessary to bring rates down, especially through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which along with FHA, now guarantee over 90% of all new single-family home mortgages in the U.S. He also noted that the current mortgage rate is at its lowest since data began being tracked in 1971. Since mortgage spending in the U.S. typically represents 30% of a family's income, diminishing mortgage payments free up discretionary money, thus increasing consumer spending which can help the overall recovery. ¶3. (SBU) The Secretary laid out a three-pronged U.S. government approach: first, to keep interest rates low and provide incentives for first-time home buyers; second, to help financially sound existing mortgage-holders to refinance at more affordable rates, which could affect four to five million mortgages; third, for the USG to share 50/50 with banks for a reduction in interest rates, which could affect another three to four million mortgages. He said studies have shown that people will generally continue to pay their mortgage even though the amount is greater than the value of their homes, and he did not currently foresee the need to reduce the value of the mortgages themselves. Only mortgages on primary residences, which represent about 80% of the total, are being supported by the above plan. He also mentioned that it is very hard to develop a system to buy out commercial loans. These will not be subsidized, he noted, but might be bought up, suggesting it could be an emerging long-term problem. -------------- The Argentine Experience -------------- ¶4. (SBU) Eduardo Elsztain, Acting President of Banco Hipotecario (the leading mortgage lender in Argentina) and President of IRSA (one of the country's largest real estate investment and development firms),noted that mortgages in Argentina represent only 2% of GDP. One of the underlying problems, he said, is that there is no mechanism to adjust the value of the currency, which prevents the use of mortgages to preserve money. He predicted that mortgages might increase over the next decade to 10% of GDP, which would at least move Argentina half-way to current levels in Chile and Brazil. People in Argentina do not trust the system, he said, and not only are there virtually no mortgages, but also no second mortgages or mezzanines. Hence, Argentines use their liquidity to purchase property in cash. ¶5. (SBU) Secretary Donovan asked the roundtable how they would go about creating a mortgage market in Argentina. Elsztain said it is in the hands of the state. Referring to the nationalization of all private pension funds last year, he noted that the state is now the only place to get capital. Daniel Artana, Director of FIEL (a private, independent, non-partisan and non-profit institution devoted to economic and social research on Argentina and Latin America),suggested linking mortgage rates to an index of salaries, which begs the question of who handles statistics, as the current official organization's figures are considered unreliable by all private sources. The Secretary noted that it might be necessary to tap into capital markets to create securitization, and he gave the example of Denmark, which has unique a bond market linked to mortgages. He mentioned the challenge of establishing land ownership as another problem underlying the difficulty in obtaining financing, particularly for the poor. -------------- Local Lending -------------- ¶6. (SBU) Secretary Donovan asked about recent media reports suggesting that the nationalization of Banco Hipotecario was imminent. Elsztain, its acting president, said he had heard many contradictory rumors over the last few months from different ministers. Elsztain did not believe that the GoA would ultimately do anything and noted that despite all the rumors, he still made all decisions. While he felt that better-quality solutions result from demand-side assistance, he pointed out that the key was in how to provide credit to families. Banco Hipotecario has 120 years experience in the business, he said, and at least has the ability to place many mortgages, which is important to the Argentine economy. He noted that, over the last five years, construction had been one of the main engines of economic growth. Pedro Nicholson, a partner in Estudio Beccar Varela (a main line law firm),noted that the real estate sector in Argentina provides work directly or indirectly to a million employees, and that GoA support of this sector is essential to the economic well-being of the county. Jorge O'Reilly, a prominent developer and advisor to Presidential Chief of Cabinet Sergio Massa, also predicted a construction slowdown, should the government in Buenos Aires try to collect taxes too aggressively. Elsztain said that investment in housing is the number-one priority to maintain employment. ¶7. (SBU) The Ambassador referred to earlier talks between the Secretary and the Vice-Mayor of Buenos Aires, which touched on the ways in which to use public money to fuel private sector lending. Secretary Donovan observed that mortgage capital is the key. The question is how to get the private sector involved and the ways in which government can assist in helping to guarantee the risks. The Ambassador noted that one of the challenges in accumulating lending capital in Argentina is that no one has the confidence to commit their money to a bank for more than 60-90 days. Elsztain agreed. -------------- Getting Good Results -------------- ¶8. (SBU) Nicholson pointed out that Argentina lacks 3.5 million units of housing, which led to a discussion about the physical and social quality of public housing projects. Daniel Becker, a partner in Becker & Ferrari Architects (an award-winning architectural firm in Buenos Aires),voiced his concern about the quality of housing being built, and noted that previously publicly supported mid- and high-rise projects such as Piedra Buenas and Fort Apache (a phrase borrowed from its namesake in The Bronx, NYC) are in terrible condition and should be torn down. He referred to some well-known cases in which U.S. public housing projects had been demolished. ¶9. (SBU) Secretary Donovan noted his preference for demand-side subsidies and mixed-income housing that have been shown to avoid many of the problems previously experienced by all low-income projects. Although Artana had referred earlier to FONAVI, the main federal government housing agency which funds housing through IPV's (Provincial Housing Institutes),Secretary Donovan observed that all funds for this program were provided on the supply-side, which tends to yield substandard housing at high cost, and noted that administrative costs alone were 22% of program funds according to the Bank study. (Note: A November 2006 World Bank/International Finance Corporation report reached similar conclusions. End Note.) -------------- Mixed-use projects -------------- ¶10. (SBU) Noting Secretary Donovan's surprise that a project such as Puerto Madero could be developed without the type of municipal financing which is typical in the U.S., Nicholson pointed out that this fact actually limits local developers to developing projects only for the wealthy. Becker noted that Puerto Madero is not a mixed-income area, hence not a real neighborhood. The Secretary said many local zoning ordinances in the U.S. are required to support mixed-use of areas and described a voucher system which people can use to rent apartments on the open market. -------------- Economics of Housing -------------- ¶11. (SBU) Issel Kiperszmid, President of DYPSA International (a major Developer with a strategy of "exporting apartments" by focusing on foreign buyers for its projects),noted that, while two years ago some 40-50% of the people buying apartments in his projects were foreigners, there are virtually none now. Elsztain suggested that this might have been because many Argentines have a "foreign" identity for capital purposes. Secretary Donovan explained that NYC also used to have strong foreign investment in apartments, especially on the high end. ¶12. (SBU) Getting back to an earlier question of whether the cost of construction in the U.S. exceeds the price of housing, Secretary Donovan said that there are indeed houses in Cleveland, for example, that have been sold by banks at far less than construction costs, but that typically the cost of construction is still less than current values. O'Reilly pointed out that when the price of housing is higher than the cost of building, demand is not necessarily indicative of a bubble but rather of desirability, as in New York City and Buenos Aires. The Secretary recalled the 1977 World Series in NYC, when famed sports broadcaster Howard Cosell pointed out to millions of viewers all the apartments burning in the background, subsequent to having been stripped of valuable construction material such as copper piping. Secretary Donovan pointed out that the NYC Housing Agency at that time had taken over more than 100,000 apartments, then renovatedand sold them for as low as a few hundred dollars. Given the improvements in New York City neighborhoods over the past three decades, he said, some are now worth a million dollars, demonstrating the significant impact of these policies. -------------- Back to Politics -------------- ¶13. (SBU) Turning to bilateral relations, Nicholson said that the Argentines are always optimistic about the relations between the two countries. Secretary Donovan noted that he had heard that President Obama is the most popular politician in Argentina. All of the Argentine participants agreed. Nicholson pointed out that there are emerging politicians in Argentina, but that the system does not trust new blood and that it is difficult for new politicians to emerge. In response to a question by the Secretary about the percentage of political vs. civil service appointment, Kiperszmid suggested that it was similar to the situation in the United States but noted that a professional civil service was lacking. The Ambassador agreed that the civil service is not strong in Argentina and observed that agencies do not usually work well together. Secretary Donovan noted that inter-agency cooperation is also a challenge in the United States. -------------- Comment -------------- ¶14. (SBU) This lunch provided an opportunity for Secretary Donovan to hear the views of individuals who have been intimately involved with the history of housing and finance in Argentina over the past few decades. It also showed that, while some of the challenges, such as public housing, are similar in both countries, the absence of a vibrant mortgage market and bank financing in Argentina makes the situation quite different when it comes to middle-class housing and project development. End Comment. ¶15. (U) This cable has been cleared by HUD Secretary Donovan. WAYNE