BOUCHER AND NOROV: PRAGMATIC STEPS FORWARD

C O N F I D E N T I A L STATE 106151 SIPDIS E.O. 12958: DECL: 09/29/2018 TAGS: PREL ASEC PHUM KDEM PMAR PK AF UZ SUBJECT: BOUCHER AND NOROV: PRAGMATIC STEPS FORWARD Classified By: Assistant Secretary Boucher for reasons 1.4(b) and (d). ¶1. (C) SUMMARY: Assistant Secretary for South and Central Asia, Richard Boucher, and Uzbekistan's Foreign Minister, Vladimir Norov, met September 27 on the margins of the UN General Assembly and discussed: overland supply to Afghanistan, human rights, religious freedom, the Red Cross, counter narcotics, Uzbekistan's 6 3 proposal for talks on Afghanistan, and regional water issues. Boucher called for "steps forward" on human rights and religious freedom. Norov agreed but urged a "pragmatic approach." Of note, Norov urged the United States to stay out of Central Asian regional water issues as the Uzbeks preferred bilateral solutions. Boucher gently rebuffed Norov's call for a 6 3 arrangement on Afghanistan; a proposal to discuss the future of Afghanistan with neighboring states but not the Afghan government itself. END SUMMARY. ¶2. (U) Participants Foreign Minister Vladimir Norov Ambassador to the United States Abdulaziz Kamilov Uzbek Embassy First Secretary Eldor Aripov Uzbek UN Mission Second Secretary Ildar Shigabutdinov Assistant Secretary Richard Boucher SCA Deputy Assistant Secretary George Krol SCA/CEN Notetaker John Gorkowski ¶3. (C) Boucher raised the issue of shipments of supplies into Afghanistan and asked Norov for a readout of his meeting with NATO Secretary General's Special Representative for South Caucasus and Central Asia, Bob Simmons, in Brussels. Norov noted that President Karimov had already issued a statement in support of NATO's efforts to transit material through Uzbekistan and underscored that this was in Uzbekistan's national interest since it helped secure Afghanistan. Norov shared that the Uzbeks had some concerns about the current transit proposal that could be resolved given a "pragmatic" approach. The Europeans had discussed the same issue with Central Asian leaders at the EU-Central Asian ministerial conference on security in Paris September 18. Norov went on to describe a proposal Karimov made in Baku to develop a new rail transportation corridor to/from Europe that could alleviate NATO's burden. It would send Uzbek cargoes by rail to Turkmenbashi and then by ferry to Baku from where material would rail through Georgia, Turkey and then tunnel under the Bosporus to Europe. ¶4. (C) Norov called for pragmatism on human rights. He shared that Uzbekistan had reduced death sentences from 39 to 2 in the recent past, a better record than Kyrgyzstan in which 200 on death row have now been sentenced to life in prison. After explaining Uzbek commitment to Habeas Corpus and prevention of trafficking in persons, Norov described a September 12 Executive Order to observe International Labor Organization conventions on child labor. In response to a question from Boucher, Norov noted the new Uzbek law allowing Bar Association exchanges with the United States. Likewise he said that prison amnesties would be granted where inmates had not violated prison regulations. When Boucher asked for the release of political prisoners, Norov replied, "I don't know what you mean by political prisoners; we don't have any." Here and elsewhere Norov asked that Uzbekistan's progress be measured relative to other nations in the region as things had to improve "one step at a time." He asked for a return to the 2002 Declaration of Strategic Partnership based on a "balanced approach," that avoided a "double standard" of interference in domestic affairs. ¶5. (C) On religious freedom, Norov answered Boucher's inquiry about progress on the exchange of letters with Ambassador Hanford, Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious Freedom. Norov described a "pragmatic" approach in close consultation with Ambassador Norland in Tashkent. "One case at a time," explained Norov. He went on to note that in contrast to Kyrgyzstan, his country required only 100 registrants to constitute a church and in some cases even fewer than that. Boucher stressed that the letter gave us a positive agenda on which we had to see progress in order to avoid an unwanted slide back to sanctions. ¶6. (C) There was "no problem" with the Red Cross prison visits according to Norov. He reported that he was waiting on a report from the International Committee of the Red Cross after having worked through some issues regarding their approach. The Red Cross should not question only "particular groups" of prisoners. He also asked, "Are they gathering data for themselves or to help us improve conditions in our prisons?" He underscored that "regularization of the judicial system" required a great deal of thought, financing, legislation and time. ¶7. (C) Turning to counter narcotics, Norov lamented that this year 54% more heroin had entered Uzbekistan than in the previous year. Law enforcement had even found Tajik-produced heroin. Boucher drew a link between terrorism and narcotics by reminding that both thrived on insecurity. He explained how the Taliban had abandoned their take-and-hold strategy for one centered on generating a feeling of insecurity through violent attacks. In response, the United States was increasing security by helping extend the Afghan government's reach into the provinces and blanketing the country with police. When Boucher asked how we might deepen counter narcotics cooperation Norov asked that we station U.S. Drug Enforcement Agents at the U.S. Embassy in Tashkent. ¶8. (C) As Norov saw it, French Foreign Minister Kouchner had showed common cause with Uzbekistan's 6 3 proposal at the September 18 Paris meeting between EU and Central Asian foreign ministers by calling for an informal meeting of states neighboring Afghanistan this November. However, Uzbekistan rejected President Rahmon's call for Shanghai Cooperation Organization involvement and was weary of Russian efforts to get the Collective Security Treaty states involved. Norov reminded Boucher that our efforts to speak to the opposition in Iraq had led to our current success there and that Afghan Foreign Minister Spanta had called for something similar with the Taliban. Boucher assured Norov that we shared Uzbek concerns about "spill over" from Afghanistan. Although we agreed with the concept underlying the 6 3 proposal we rejected the mechanism because any discussion on Afghanistan must include and be centered on the Afghan government. "What happens on reconciliation must be centered on the Afghan government so that all accept the new constitution." Boucher agreed the UN Special Representative Kai Eide had yet to develop a specific approach to involving the neighboring countries but noted Eide needs time. ¶9. (C) Boucher raised the issue of water sharing within Central Asia. Norov explained that the Uzbeks wanted a fair apportionment of transborder water so that down stream countries would be compensated for losses generated by those up stream. President Karimov has declined to attend the October 1 and 2 water meeting in Almaty since the matter could be addressed at the already planned Commonwealth of Independent States summit on October 9 and 10 in Bishkek. Norov stressed Uzbekistan,s preference to deal with water issues bilaterally and urged that the U.S. refrain from involving itself in the issue. Boucher asked whether we could help improve the efficiency of water consumption through better pipelines and irrigation systems. Norov retorted that the Uzbeks had already pursued this option via an agreement signed in Abu Dhabi last April with a foreign country. In the interest of comparison, he described how although water input from Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan had declined by 50 percent this year the Uzbek cotton crop had not suffered thanks to better management and new seed grains. He lamented that in Kyrgyzstan corruption wastes 40 percent of that nation's electricity that is derived from water. Boucher pointed to this as a good reason to pursue water saving mechanisms and offered to look into how the United States could help. Norov urged that such help be provided to all countries in the region. ¶10. (C) Norov closed by encouraging Under Secretary Burns to visit, noting Karimov would definitely want to meet him. ¶11. (C) In a separate conversation with Norov after the meeting, Deputy Assistant Secretary Krol urged consideration of granting amnesty to Sanjar Umarov, a prisoner convicted for "financial" crimes but whose health is seriously deteriorating. His son had recently spoken at a conference on human rights in New York. Krol noted this humanitarian act could avert negative attention to Uzbekistan. Norov indicated they would look into it. On water disputes, Norov told Krol he had warned the Tajiks directly, if they build the Rohgun hydro-electric plant, Uzbekistan will not permit a single railcar to enter Tajikistan. He claimed the Russians understand this as well, adding that this is why they are dragging their feet with the Tajiks on the project. RICE