HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE: HRD DELEGATION WORKING DINNER WITH

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 06 BEIJING 002530

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/26/2033
TAGS: PHUM PREL PGOV CH
SUBJECT: HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE: HRD DELEGATION WORKING DINNER WITH
ASSISTANT FOREIGN MINISTER LIU JIEYI, MAY 26

REFS: A) 07 Beijing 6950
B) 07 Beijing 6770

Classified by Acting Political Section Chief Ben Moeling. Reasons
1.4 (b) and (d).

SUMMARY
--------------


1. (C) Making human rights a positive aspect of the U.S.-China
relationship is our shared goal, PRC Assistant Foreign Minister Liu
Jieyi told DRL Assistant Secretary David Kramer during a working
dinner on May 26 following the conclusion of the U.S.-China Human
Rights Dialogue (HRD) earlier that day. (See septels for other
meetings associated with the HRD.) The Chinese delegation discussed
the PRC's plans for unveiling a two-year "National Action Plan" on
human rights that will begin on January 1, 2009. The delegations
discussed Tibet at length. A/S Kramer raised the issue of trials of
Tibetan suspects, asserting that lawyers should be able to represent
those charged without repercussions and requesting that U.S.
observers be allowed at trials. In its reply, the Chinese delegation
focused mainly on citing statistics to "prove" the great progress
Tibet has made under PRC rule. AFM Liu pointed to PRC policies
purportedly designed to protect the Tibetan religion and culture, and
he criticized the Dalai Lama for the way he ruled Tibet prior to 1951
as well as his unceasing "political" activities since then. Despite
the Dalai Lama's expressions of support for the Games, he has also
said the Olympics are Tibet's "last chance," AFM Liu said. China's
differences with the "Dalai side" are not about human rights,
religion or culture, but rather are issues of China's sovereignty and
territorial integrity. On the question of trials, AFM Liu said that
individual Chinese courts will make decisions on observer requests in
accordance with the law. A/S Kramer emphasized that the Dalai Lama
is a man of peace. The USG hopes that, in the next round of talks
between China and the Dalai Lama's representatives, the two sides can
work toward resolution of the many issues between them, A/S Kramer
stated.


2. (C) Summary Continued: A/S Kramer said the United States requests
that further protection and respect be provided for the culture,
language and religious traditions of Uighur Muslims in China. AFM
Liu cited several "basic facts" about Xinjiang to demonstrate the
province's economic, social and cultural development under Chinese
rule. Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious Freedom John
Hanford presented further views on U.S. concerns over religious
freedom in China. The U.S. delegation expressed its hope that China
will end its compulsory birth limitation regime and instead move to
voluntary family planning. AFM Liu replied that China's family
planning policies have brought benefits to the Chinese people and the
entire world. On possible next steps, A/S Kramer suggested the two
sides think about October or November of this year for the next round
of talks, either in Washington or Beijing. The goal now is to
achieve concrete results, he emphasized. China has a "positive"
attitude toward continuing our exchange and dialogue on human rights,
AFM Liu said, commenting that our two sides should together consider
next steps and discuss the details of a next meeting. End Summary.

THE HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE AND BILATERAL RELATIONS
-------------- --------------


3. (C) Upon conclusion of the May 26 U.S.-China Human Rights Dialogue
(HRD),and immediately following a meeting with Foreign Minister Yang
Jiechi (see septels),PRC Assistant Foreign Minister Liu Jieyi hosted
a working dinner for DRL Assistant Secretary David Kramer and the
U.S. delegation. Referring to the "very good" human rights dialogue
that had just concluded, AFM Liu said making human rights a positive
aspect of the U.S.-China relationship is our shared goal. The United
States and China are capable of carrying out a sound, cooperative
dialogue that can promote human rights globally and within our
respective countries. As the 30th anniversary of our bilateral
relationship approaches, we should reflect upon the remarkable
headway we have made. Our bilateral relationship has reached a level
of "unprecedented depth and breadth." China is ready to work with
the United States to promote cooperative, constructive relations to
ensure the long-term growth of the bilateral relationship, AFM Liu
said.

CHINA'S "NATIONAL ACTION PLAN" ON HUMAN RIGHTS
-------------- -


4. (C) In response to questions about China's upcoming "National
Action Plan (NAP)" on human rights that was mentioned in that day's
formal round of dialogue, Dr. Shen Yongxiang, Deputy Director General
of the MFA Department of International Organizations and Conferences,
provided further details. As we approach the 60th anniversary of
adoption of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights, Shen said, the
Chinese Government decided the best way to celebrate the Declaration
would be to secure and protect human rights in China through
developing this NAP. The concept of a NAP has already been approved
by the State Council. An inter-ministry mechanism involving 40 to 50
Chinese ministries and commissions will meet to develop the plan in

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detail, led by the State Council Information Office and the Ministry
of Foreign Affairs. When developing the plan, the Chinese Government
is prepared to "solicit extensively" the views of NGOs and the
academic community. The action plan will address economic, social
and cultural rights, as well as civil and political rights.


5. (C) The NAP will cover two years, beginning January 1, 2009 and
ending December 31, 2010. The NAP will include objectives for that
two-year period, to include measures specifying each ministry's
responsibilities and a built-in mechanism for a mid-term assessment.
China believes that by participating in this action plan, the
legislative, executive and judicial branches of the Chinese
Government will strengthen awareness of human rights in China. The
NAP will be released before the end of this year, but a specific date
has not yet been set.

TIBET
--------------


6. (C) A/S Kramer noted the U.S. delegation's concern about the
trials of Tibetan protestors allegedly linked to the March 2008
unrest. First, lawyers should be able to represent those charged
without facing repercussions. Second, the United States hopes to
have the ability to send observers to attend trials, A/S Kramer
stated, emphasizing that this request is not limited to the trials of
Tibetans. Allowing for diplomatic observers at trials would be a
positive confidence-building measure between the United States and
China, A/S Kramer said.


7. (C) AFM Liu launched into a lengthy response on Tibet by first
suggesting that the representative from the Tibetan Autonomous Region
(TAR),Suolang Renzeng, Deputy Director General (DDG) of the TAR
United Front Work Department, provide background information on the
situation in the TAR, which would "lay the foundation for further
discussion." DDG Suolang Renzeng began with a recitation of figures
designed to demonstrate the great progress made in the TAR under PRC
rule. The PRC Central Government attaches great importance to human
rights in Tibet, he claimed, with the "unprecedented changes" that
have taken place since "peaceful liberation" in 1951 among its most
important human rights achievements. In 1951, Tibet had a population
of approximately 1 million; today's population is 2.84 million.
Tibetans and other minorities account for 95 percent of the TAR's
population. Life expectancy has risen from 35.7 years in 1959 to 67
years today. Per capita GDP in 1965 was 241 renminbi (RMB); today it
is RMB 12,000. Before1950, 900,000 people had no homes, out of a
ppulation of one million; today, nearly every household "enjoys a
bright, new home." On averag, every two people have one mobile or
land-line phone. Before liberation, there were no modern schools,
and there were only 2,000 students. Today more than 540,000 children
are enrolled in schools. Prior to liberation, there were only 400
doctors; now there are 9,095. The Central Government has carried out
an ethnic regional autonomy system, with 80 percent of all government
jobs in Tibet held by ethnic Tibetans or other minority groups.
Thanks to government support, Tibet has enjoyed swift economic and
social development. At present, all ethnic groups are happy and
enjoy a comfortable life in Tibet, DDG Suolong Renzeng concluded.


8. (C) AFM Liu then explained PRC policies that he said are designed
to protect the Tibetan religion and culture in the TAR. More than
46,000 monks and nuns reside in the TAR. There is one monastery for
every 1,600 people in Tibet. The Central Government has allocated
large sums of money for the renovation of the Potala Palace and other
Tibetan religious sites. When the Dalai Lama was in Tibet, there
were no institutes of Tibetology. At present, there are more than 50
Tibetology institutes, staffed mostly by ethnic Tibetans. Both
Mandarin Chinese and Tibetan are used in the TAR, though precedence
is given to Tibetan. From these basic facts, AFM Liu argued, one can
see the great progress Tibet has made, since China has protected
culture, grown the economy and promoted Tibetology and religious
freedom, all in accordance with the Chinese constitution.


9. (C) AFM Liu argued that the Dalai Lama is part of the "old Tibet,"
a theocracy that combined religion and politics. Serfdom was
practiced in Tibet, and the Dalai Lama's family owned 6,000 serfs.
After the Dalai Lama went overseas, he did not give up his "political
motives." The Dalai Lama has made many remarks over the years, but
it is more important to look at his actions. According to the
"so-called charter" of the "so-called government-in-exile," the Dalai
Lama is the "head of state" of this "so-called independent
government." The Dalai Lama has never renounced this charter.
Although on his overseas visits the Dalai Lama often discusses
religion, he is pursuing a political objective. For example, his
emphasis on a "higher degree of autonomy" would be applied according
to his own definition of a "greater Tibetan area," which includes not
only the TAR but surrounding ethnic Tibetan areas, comprising
one-fourth of China's territory and having no historical basis. The
Dalai Lama has also said that other ethnic groups must be removed
from these Tibetan areas. In the 21st century, if the creation of a
state based on a single ethnic group and the removal of all other
groups is not "ethnic cleansing," then what is, AFM Liu asked.


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10. (C) Turning to the Olympics, AFM Liu said the Dalai Lama has
stated that he "supports" the Beijing Olympic Games, but he has also
said that the Olympics are Tibet's "last chance." Thus, one has to
wonder, does the Dalai Lama "support" the Games themselves, or does
he merely support the Games because they create an opportunity for
him and his followers to create trouble? The Dalai Lama says he is
against violence, but serious "burning, smashing, and looting" took
place on March 14. The Dalai Lama has subsequently said that he
recognizes demonstrations in "all forms." Given that he made these
remarks after March 14, it is clear that such remarks should be
viewed as "inciting" violence and "conniving" to make trouble. Thus,
though the Dalai Lama may have said one thing in public, his actions
show his "true motives." AFM Liu stressed that China's differences
with the "Dalai side" are not about human rights, religion or
culture, but rather are issues of China's sovereignty and territorial
integrity. The United States has declared that it recognizes Tibet
is part of China. China hopes the United States will "genuinely
show" that this is its position when dealing with the Dalai Lama.


11. (C) On the question of trials, AFM Liu said that China has "clear
legal provisions" that do not differ greatly from those of other
countries. China guarantees that defendants will have access to
legal representation, and ensures the use of the Tibetan language, or
a Tibetan interpreter, in that representation. Chinese law also
fully guarantees the rights of lawyers, AFM Liu said. No lawyer
would be subject to legal sanction just because he provided legal
representation according to the law. The same rules regarding
observers at trials apply nationwide. There are legal provisions
regarding observation. An application needs to be submitted to the
relevant court, which then will decide whether to allow foreign
observers. Recently, some EU diplomats made an application and
received PRC approval to attend a trial involving a review of a death
sentence case in the second instance.


12. (C) A/S Kramer noted that, in a meeting scheduled for the next
day with a Vice Minister at the United Front Work Department, there
would be further opportunity for an exchange of views on Tibet. A/S
Kramer said he hoped there could be a narrowing of the differences in
our respective views on Tibet over time. He emphasized that the
Dalai Lama is a man of peace. The USG hopes that, in the next round
of talks between China and the Dalai Lama's representatives, the two
sides can make concrete progress toward resolution of the many issues
between them. The United States would like to see the two sides meet
again as soon as possible. AFM Liu replied that China had already
informed the U.S. Government of the contact between the PRC
Government and representatives of the Dalai Lama. However, this
contact is between the PRC and the "Dalai side," and does not require
any "management" by the United States. China hopes the PRC's
"goodwill" will not be "misappropriated" and wishes the Dalai Lama
will create a positive atmosphere by ceasing to promote violence,
split China and disrupt the Olympics. The May 4 contact marks a new
beginning. The PRC is sincere. As long as the "Dalai side" shows
its sincerity, there will be another "contact" between the two sides
at an early date, AFM Liu said.

XINJIANG/UIGHUR MUSLIMS
--------------


13. (C) A/S Kramerraised the subject of protecting the rights of
Uighurs in China. Although terrorism is an important issue, and the
United States recognizes the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM)
as a terrorist group, it is important not to stereotype an entire
population based on the actions of a small group of people. The
United States requests that further protection and respect be
provided for the culture, language and traditions of Uighur Muslims
in China. We have also heard reports of the forced movement of
Uighurs to other parts of China, A/S Kramer stated.


14. (C) AFM Liu cited several "basic facts" about Xinjiang. Over the
last 30 years, the average income in Xinjiang has increased from RMB
300 to RMB 10,120. Life expectancy has increased dramatically.
Xinjiang enjoys active exchanges with the outside world, for example
with a number of civil aviation organizations, and has "exchanges"
with 148 countries. The PRC has invested RMB 443 billion (USD 64.5
billion) in Xinjiang, mainly for infrastructure. This year, the
Central Government has allocated RMB 7 billion (USD 1.02 billion) to
manage environmental protection for the Tarim River. There are many
religious beliefs practiced in Xinjiang, including Islam, Buddhism,
Protestantism, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox Christianity and Taoism.
There are more than 24,000 religious sites in Xinjiang, including
23,700 Islamic mosques employing some 29,000 people. Xinjiang has
six large-scale monasteries that have trained many overseas students.
From 1978 to 2005, more than 2,000 students graduated from Islamic
Scripture Institutes in China, with 1,530 having already taken up
religious posts. There are nearly 600 religious teachers and 2,000
students. Seven languages are regularly used in Xinjiang, including
Uighur, Mandarin, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Russian and Mongolian. More than
700 middle schools use the Uighur language for instruction. From
these figures and Xinjiang's progress to date, one can see the
effectiveness of the Central Government's policies, AFM Liu said.


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15. (C) Regarding the removal of Uighur women to other parts of
China, AFM Liu said that the MFA spokesperson had already responded
to these allegations some time ago. China "knows who said this," AFM
Liu stated, and knows that person has done so for the purpose of
spreading "rumors and lies." If such behavior existed, there would
not be only one or two reports, but everyone would know such a thing
was going on. Rest assured, there is no such thing happening in
China, AFM Liu declared.

RESTRICTIONS ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM
--------------


16. (C) Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious Freedom John
Hanford presented further views on U.S. concerns over religious
freedom in China. Ambassador Hanford reiterated that the U.S. shares
China's concern about radical Islam. However, the United States is
concerned that restrictions on peaceful religious practices could
produce counterproductive results in Xinjiang. The United States is
concerned about restrictions on young Muslims, Ambassador Hanford
said, citing reports that young Uighur Muslims are often prohibited
from practicing their religion before reaching the age of 18. We
have even heard reports of mothers being arrested for teaching the
Islamic faith to their children. Ambassador Hanford noted reported
restrictions on observance of Ramadan, including limits on fasting
and praying for government workers, students and members of the
Communist Party.


17. (C) Ambassador Hanford expressed concern over disturbing reports
that the Government had expelled more than 100 foreigners (mostly
from Xinjiang),many of them American citizens, for alleged "illegal
religious activities." Ambassador Hanford noted that he first raised
these expulsions with Chinese Ambassador to the United States, Zhou
Wenzhong, in August 2007 and that the U.S. Embassy in Beijing had
previously raised this subject with the MFA (Ref B). Ambassador
Hanford noted that the United States has welcomed over 30 Confucian
Institutes at U.S. universities and that Chinese citizens in the
United States have the freedom to share their knowledge, whether it
is scientific, mathematical, medical, artistic, linguistic or
religious. Ambassador Hanford cited as an example the case of
American citizens Steve and Hong-Ying Brannon, which was raised with
the MFA in Beijing in a diplomatic note (Ref A). The Government also
reportedly arrested Uighur Christian associates of the expelled
American citizens. One of them, Alimujiang Yimiti, was put on trial
merely for his association with the Brannons. (Note: On the
following day, May 27, the Xinjiang court that heard the subversion
allegations against Yimiti sent his case back to the prosecution on
the basis of "insufficient evidence.") Wusimanyiming, another Uighur
Christian, was sentenced to two years of reeducation through labor
for allegedly helping foreigners with illegal religious activities.
Xinjiang police also recently arrested Uighur Christian Lou Yuanqi
for participating in religious gatherings. Ambassador Hanford noted
that many of the Uighur Christians recently arrested were involved in
house church activities, which was surprising given how peaceful
house churches in China have been. He also expressed concern over
regulations that prohibit the teaching of Christianity to Uighur
Muslims in Xinjiang because they single out a specific religion and a
specific ethnic group.


18. (C) AFM Liu said that to his knowledge, there is no regulation on
fasting during Ramadan. It is clear, he said, in the Chinese
constitution that PRC citizens have the right to religious freedom,
and minors are citizens, too. China practices the separation of
education and religion, as is done in other places, including the
United States. In China, the constitution says that no one can use
religion to disrupt education. Normal compulsory education in China
will not be disrupted for religious education. At the same time,
China notes that religion is widely practiced among some minorities.
The Government does not interfere in parents' decisions regarding the
education of their children. There is "simply no way" that a mother
would be arrested for educating her children. But, if such a mother
used a stick to beat a child to force him to learn a religion, then
she might be arrested.


19. (C) Since China launched its reform and opening policies, a
growing number of foreigners, including U.S. nationals, have been
visiting China, AFM Liu said. Some 5,000 people travel each day
between China and the United States. China does not ask such
visitors their religious affiliation. As long as they do not violate
Chinese law, these people have no problem. There simply is no issue
of expelling them. At the same time, just because a person is a
foreign national does not give him the power to violate Chinese law.
Although claiming no knowledge of the specific case, AFM Liu said it
was "impossible" for someone to be arrested merely for his religious
beliefs. Otherwise, one cannot explain why there are so many
religious believers in China. On the other hand, a religious
follower cannot expect to be exempt if he violates the law.


20. (C) AFM Liu said the establishment of Confucian Institutes had
been supported by both the U.S. and Chinese Governments. The
Institutes' mainobjective is the teaching of Chinese, an issue to
which the United States attaches great importance. Secretary Rice

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has also mentioned the importance of studying Chinese. Confucius
Institutes serve to promote U.S.-China exchanges in general as well
as the study of the Chinese language in the United States. They are
not religious organizations. Confucius was a renowned scholar, not a
religious figure, AFM Liu stated. (NOTE: The Confucian Institutes
describe themselves as centers for training in Chinese language and
culture. Cultural events oftentimes do include the subjects of
philosophy and religion.)


21. (C) Regarding ETIM, AFM Liu said China is grateful for U.S.
support of the United Nations Security Council's designation of the
group as a terrorist organization. As in other areas, China and the
United States have enjoyed fruitful cooperation on counterterrorism
issues. China believes terrorism is indiscriminate, so
counterterrorism cooperation is required worldwide. Global
counterterrorism efforts are only as strong as the weakest link. A
country cannot oppose only the terrorists targeting it, but rather
must oppose all terrorist groups. China hopes the United States will
support the inclusion of the East-Turkestan Liberation Organization
(ETLO, aka SHAT) in the UN terrorist organization list. Although our
two sides have discussed this issue for a number of years, China
believes it is important to continue working on our international
counterterrorism efforts, AFM Liu stated.

PRC BIRTH LIMITATION POLICIES
--------------


22. (C) PRM's Richard Behrend presented U.S. views on China's birth
limitation policies. These policies include measures limits on the
number, spacing and timing of births, and related enforcement
measures such as compulsory abortion and sterilization, social
compensation fees and other economic penalties. The policies have
harmful consequences for China's development and human rights.
According to Chinese demographers, one outcome of PRC policies
designed to limit the number of economically dependent children is a
rapidly aging population profile, and thus an increase in the
societal cost of caring for China's elderly. These same policies
have amplified the problem of aborting female fetuses. The gender
imbalance may also be contributing to increased trafficking of women.
The experience of many countries demonstrates that, as an economy
develops, when given the choice most families will choose to have
fewer children. China should honor the commitment made in 1994 at
the International Conference on Population and Development to allow
parents to decide the number and spacing of their children. The
PRC's coercive policies have also led to resistance and resentment,
and harsher enforcement measures, a dynamic that creates tension
between people and the authorities. Finally, China's policies are
inconsistent with parts of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights.
The United States therefore hopes that China will end its birth
control regime and move to voluntary family planning.


23. (C) AFM Liu Jieyi noted that his comments should not be
considered as part of the HRD, given that family planning was not on
the HRD agenda. China's family planning policies have brought
benefits to the Chinese people and the entire world, AFM Liu argued.
Just one example is the fact that even though China possesses only
seven percent of the world's total arable land, it feeds 22 percent
of the world population and is even a grain exporter. Family
planning is also an important component of China's economic growth
and thus has helped the Chinese people achieve their human rights,
viewed from a "holistic" perspective. The majority of Chinese people
welcome these family planning policies, which have been well-received
by the international community. Although there have been problems in
enforcement at the local level, they are not related to the policies
themselves. The Government has already adopted measures to address
various issues. Just one example is the prohibition on determining
the sex of a fetus prior to birth. When evaluating these policies,
one should keep in mind the national conditions of each country and
whether those policies benefit the majority of the people. Most
countries do not believe that China's family planning practices
violate the Universal Declaration on Human Rights. In fact, the PRC
has made "remarkable achievements" over many years by following the
principles enshrined in the Universal Declaration, AFM Liu asserted.
As a final point, AFM added that there are exceptions to China's
family planning policies for example, there are some exemptions for
minorities, including those in Tibet.

THE NEXT DIALOGUE MEETING?
--------------


24. (C) A/S Kramer asked about possible next steps, noting that it
had been Washington's turn to host this round of talks.
Nevertheless, the U.S. delegation agreed to come to Beijing and
greatly appreciated the Chinese side's hospitality. Perhaps both
sides can consider October or November as a possible timeframe for
another meeting, A/S Kramer said. The Chinese delegation is always
welcome in Washington, DC, though the U.S. delegation is also happy
to come to China again. Regardless, the U.S. delegation wishes to
continue this effort, which was worthwhile for increasing mutual
understanding. The U.S. side greatly appreciated the Chinese
delegation's seriousness. The goal now is to achieve concrete

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results, A/S Kramer concluded. AFM Liu replied that the HRD had been
"quite effective," allowing for a productive and in-depth exchange of
views. The Chinese delegation is happy to travel to the United
States for the next round of talks but would also welcome the U.S.
delegation to Beijing again. China has a "positive" attitude toward
continuing our exchange and dialogue on human rights. Both sides
should together consider next steps and discuss the details of a next
meeting further.


25. (U) The delegation cleared this message.
RANDT