HOLY SEE: DISCUSSING FATHER RYDZYK

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 VATICAN 000139

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 9/20/2017
TAGS: PREL SOCI PHUM SCUL PL VT
SUBJECT: HOLY SEE: DISCUSSING FATHER RYDZYK

REF: STATE 100294

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CLASSIFIED BY: Christopher Sandrolini, DCM, EXEC, State.
REASON: 1.4 (d)

1. (C) Summary. Department's Special Envoy for Holocaust Issues
met key officials from the Holy See and the Redemptorist order
to discuss the case of Radio Maryja and the impact of Father
Rydzyk's anti-Semitic remarks on Polish restutition efforts.
Church officials spoke cautiously but took careful note of the
information and the level of USG concern. The Holy See
predicted that Polish bishops would address the matter seriously
at their next plenary in October, and the head of Rydzyk's order
made clear his readiness to act firmly if/if adequate evidence
can be provided to substantiate charges against Rydzyk. Embassy
Vatican hopes such evidence can be provided by Department and
Embassy Warsaw. End summary.


2. (SBU) Ambassador J. Christian Kennedy, the Department's
Special Envoy for Holocaust Issues, met Holy See and
Redemptorist officials in Rome September 18-19 to discuss the
USG's policy of supporting the new European democracies' efforts
to provide restitution of, or pay partial compensation for,
properties stolen from victims of the Nazis and Communists. He
also talked about the overall mission of his office,
anti-Semitism, and especially the case of Radio Maryja and
Father Rydzyk in Poland. Kennedy, accompanied by DCM, met Father
Joseph William Tobin, the Superior General of the Redemptorist
Order; Bishop Brian Farrell, Vice President of the Commission
for Religious Relations with Jews; Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski,
Prefect of the Congregation for Catholic Education; and
Monsignor Pietro Parolin, Undersecretary for Relations with
States (equivalent to deputy foreign minister).

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Redemptorists
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3. (C) Ambassador Kennedy provided a detailed explanation of
his mission, emphasizing the importance of giving a measure of
justice through restitution and compensation to Holocaust
survivors, victims' heirs, and others who suffered horribly in
WWII. Getting into greater detail, Kennedy raised the obstacles
created by the anti-Semitic comments of Father Rydzyk made on
Radio Maryja and other media in Poland, especially those cited
in a July edition of the Polish news magazine "Wprost". Kennedy
emphasized that we see two intertwined problems with Radio
Maryja, Rydzyk, and the statements attributed to both and never
denied. First, the anti-Semitic tendencies in Radio Maryja
programming are unacceptable. Second, remarks like those
asserted -- and never disavowed by Rydzyk -- in the "Wprost"
article impede justice for victims by inflaming the political
environment in Poland.


4. (C) Father Tobin, an American with long experience, briefly
explained his position. The Redemptorist order, founded in
1732, was for most of its history very centralized (like the
Jesuits). After 1969, however, the influence of Vatican II led
to changes, and now the Redemptorists are very de-centralized,
so that local provinces retain considerable autonomy. Tobin can
and does intervene directly on issues when appropriate, but must
act with great care and deliberation. Tobin said that the
Rydzyk case is a neuralgic one, and Polish bishops have often
raised it with him -- both opponents and supporters. Tobin met
with the Israeli ambassador to the Holy See on this issue in
2006 and asked him to provide evidence (such as transcripts) to
document the charge of anti-Semitism. To date he has not
received this evidence. The problem, said Tobin, is that Rydzyk
speaks in code, so that listeners understand him perfectly well
without him actually using incriminating language. Tobin said
he had also written to Rabbi Rosen in Jerusalem, and has spoken
to American Jewish groups about Rydzyk. Tobin said he would be
sending two assistants to Poland the week of September 24 to
follow up on the matter.


5. (C) Tobin called Rydzyk to Rome in July of this year, along
with his provincial supervisor, and asked him directly about the
reported anti-Semitic comments. Rydzyk denied making any such
statements "three times", said Tobin, who noted that the Polish
Redemptorists are very defensive now.


6. (C) Kennedy said in conclusion that the USG takes the
position that anti-Semitic comments like those attributed to
Rydzyk and other Radio Maryja personalities are unacceptable and
unworthy of figures of great public influence, and especially
organizations that are part of the Roman Catholic Church. He
also noted that there is a terrible contradiction between a
Polish radio station associated with the Roman Catholic Church
broadcasting virulently anti-Semitic material and the enormous
body of work undertaken by the late Pope John Paul II to create
an amicable, new Jewish-Catholic relationship. The USG believes
Rydzyk and Radio Maryja should stop making anti-Semitic
statements and impeding Polish efforts to provide a measure of
justice through compensation. He added that his office would
see if it could provide some direct evidence to substantiate
further what we believe are remarks made by Rydzyk or others in

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the Radio Maryja media group that includes Nasz Dziennik and TV
Trwam.


7. (C) Tobin said he was very grateful for the explanations
about USG policy in support of compensation and restitution and
that he recognized how the issue of fundamental justice was
involved in the question of Radio Maryja and remarks attributed
to Rydzyk. Emphasizing the importance of providing at least a
measure of justice for Holocaust victims and survivors, he
expressed interest in staying in touch on these issues.


8. (C) Note: In an aside, Tobin acknowledged that he was very
unhappy at the August photo of Rydzyk with Pope Benedict XVI,
and that "the Pope knows I want to see him about this". While
he declined to elaborate, it seems clear that the photo was
arranged without Tobin's knowledge or permission, and he implied
that the Vatican had served the Pope poorly in permitting this
photo to occur.

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Holy See
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9. (C) The meeting with Bishop Farrell was brief due to
scheduling constraints, but nevertheless valuable. Farrell said
European Jewish groups largely follow the lead of their American
and Israeli counterparts, and that the "European" Jewish voice,
such as it is, remains muted. The Holy See's dialogue with Jews,
which began over 40 years ago, only began to become truly
productive in the past few years, as centuries of mistrust began
to be overcome. Jews today fear the new challenge of Islam, as
do we, said Farrell. He emphasized the overriding importance to
the Church of the threat to Christians in the Holy Land, noting
that unfortunately there has been little progress to date on
this matter in talks with Israel. Farrell said that many
Israeli Jews are not very familiar with Christianity, while
international Jewish organizations are both familiar and
sensitive, but haven't been able to produce results in Israel.
The "new anti-Semitism" appearing in Europe today is unlike the
"old" antisemitism in that it doesn't arise from opposition to
Judaism so much as from the phenomenon of marginalized and
radicalized groups in Europe.


10. (C) The meeting with Monsignor Parolin was also productive.
Parolin noted that the Holy See had its own problems with
restitution of property following the collapse of communist
regimes in Eastern Europe, and it remains an unresolved issue
today. For example, the Czech restitution law for Jews has been
successful, but the Church still needs help. Kennedy reviewed
the status of restitution legislation and implementation in
various countries; coming to Poland, he emphasized that while
communal property law implementation was slower than desirable,
there is some activity on this front. Restitution of private
property has now become the critical issue. USG policy is to
encourage restitution first, and only then compensation, though
we recognize that with the passage of time restitution becomes
increasingly complicated. We also urge that there be a single
law for all claimants. Kennedy noted that the Polish government
has estimated a total cost for private property settlement of
6-8 billion USD (Warsaw would require separate legislation whose
implementation would cost 2-4 billion USD, according to GOP
figures shared with us). While some of this would go to
expatriates, the same GOP sources estimate that most of the
money would remain in Poland and would probably benefit the
Polish economy. Parolin, observing that he would be in Poland
on or about October 13, said the Holy See agreed that
restitution/compensation constitutes justice.


11. (C) Kennedy then raised the specific problem of Radio Maryja
and Father Rydzyk, which has upset many Americans. Rydzyk's
anti-Semitism is unworthy of the Church. He has never publicly
denied making the remarks he is accused of, leading the public
to believe that the charges are accurate. Rydzyk's influence
(especially his wildly inflated estimate of the costs, eightfold
greater than the GOP's) further weakens the possibilities for
restitution in Poland. Kennedy recognized that Radio Maryja
provides many valuable services (such as broadcasting the Mass
to shut-ins) but emphasized that the USG believes this
anti-Semitic rhetoric should stop. Kennedy emphasized also that
the issue of giving Holocaust survivors a measure of justice in
their lifetime would also have a fundamentally moral character.
Parolin agreed that the aspect of justice was an important
consideration. Parolin also noted that Cardinal Bertone (the
Holy See Secretary of State, second only to the Pope) was in
Poland recently and had said that Radio Maryja is an internal
Polish matter, and that the Holy See cannot intervene directly.
Parolin added that the president of the Polish Bishops
Conference, Archbishop Michalik, had said that Catholic radio
ought not to broadcast such remarks. Kennedy replied that
shortly after saying this, Michalik had publicly praised Radio
Maryja -- thus sending a mixed message. It would be helpful,
said Kennedy, if Michalik could emphasize instead the positive

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work of the Church toward relations with Jews, building on the
excellent foundational work done by Pope John Paul II and
continued by Pope Benedict XVI.


12. (C) Parolin, expressing a degree of confidence, said that
Polish bishops understand some things need to be fixed. Citing
Michalik again, Parolin predicted that Polish bishops would
would address the Rydzyk matter at their next plenary in
October. He also noted the existence of a group established for
the pastoral care of Radio Maryja. Later in the conversation
Kennedy pressed Parolin again on how sure he was that the Polish
bishops would address the Rydzyk issue at their next meeting.
Parolin repeated that he felt reasonably sure the Polish
episcopate would address it.


13. (C) Unlike the other Holy See interlocutors, Cardinal
Grocholewski -- while pleased to be consulted -- declined to
engage seriously on the issue of Radio Marjya and anti-Semitism
in Poland, instead taking refuge behind the argument that this
did not fall into his area of responsibility.

Comment
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14. (C) Ambassador Kennedy's visit (and his detailed
presentation) succeeded in raising Holy See awareness of both
the Rydzyk problem and the degree to which the United States is
concerned about it. While our interlocutors were certainly
aware of the controversy beforehand, most had not felt directly
involved, considering it more of a Polish matter. This attitude
persists, but the pace of the Holy See's slow machinery should
now move up a notch. Parolin in particular, despite his
typically cautious phrasing, will ensure that Vatican foreign
policy takes greater account of Radio Maryja's international
profile.


15. (C) Most valuable was the meeting with Father Tobin, who
also has the most immediate potential to address the problem.
He came across as a practical and responsible man who is willing
to take the necessary steps to rein in Rydzyk -- if he can be
persuaded that a clear-cut case exists. To that end we hope
that Embassy Warsaw and the Department can provide more concrete
evidence of inflammatory statements by Radio Maryja and/or
Father Rydzyk, which Embassy Vatican is prepared to raise
promptly with Tobin.


16. (U) Ambassador Kennedy has cleared this message.
SANDROLINI