TUNISIA: TOUR D'HORIZON WITH CHAMBER OF ADVISORS

C O N F I D E N T I A L TUNIS 000753

SIPDIS

NOFORN
SIPDIS

FOR NEA/MAG (HOPKINS AND HARRIS)

E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/13/2017
TAGS: PGOV PREL PTER ELAB SOCI TS
SUBJECT: TUNISIA: TOUR D'HORIZON WITH CHAMBER OF ADVISORS
PRESIDENT

REF: A. TUNIS 710


B. 06 TUNIS 873

Classified By: Ambassador Robert F. Godec for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d).

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Summary
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1. (C) In a June 8 courtesy call with the Ambassador, Chamber
of Advisors President (and ruling RCD party Treasurer) Kallel
focused on the necessity of taking an offensive posture in
combating Islamic extremism. He noted that Tunisia had made
great strides in promoting economic development, universal
education, and women's rights as buttresses against
extremism. Partly as a result of such steps, those who were
involved in the December 2006/January 2007 clashes with GOT
security services had not found succor among the local
population. Even so, Kallel said, the GOT still needs
assistance from its allies in this effort. Kallel was
nostalgic about his bilateral interactions with USG officials
over the years in his various ministerial roles. He made
clear that he considered the United States' focus on human
rights to be somewhat naive. End Summary.

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The Role of the Chamber Extolled
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2. (C) Chamber of Advisors President Abdallah Kallel opened
the 90-minute courtesy call with the Ambassador by providing
background about how the Chamber operates. (Note: Ref B
provides a description of Tunisia's second parliamentary body
and the 2002 amendment to the Tunisian constitution that
established it. End Note.) In his briefing, Kallel
repeatedly contrasted the Chamber of Advisors with the
Chamber of Deputies, which he characterized as composed of
"young people with little experience." The Chamber of
Advisors, he boasted, is comprised of individuals who are
respected professionals and experts in their respective
fields, including many former government ministers. He
explained that, as a result, the debates are more substantive
and the issues discussed more freely in the Chamber of
Advisors. Kallel also noted that the debates in the second
chamber are more lengthy; whereas a draft law is usually
debated for 30 minutes in the Chamber of Deputies, four hours
is the norm in the Chamber of Advisors. Chuckling, Kallel
shrugged, "It can be difficult to cut off a former minister,
once he has started talking."


3. (C) Asked about the still-vacant seats allotted to the
General Union of Tunisian Workers (UGTT) in 2005, Kallel
responded that, "It is an internal problem the UGTT is still
discussing." Noting that it was "too bad" that the seats
remained unfilled, Kallel continued that "the door remains
open" to the UGTT.

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The Chamber of Advisors Reflects
Advanced State of Women's' Rights
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4. (C) Kallel was proud of the fact that 17 members of the
Chamber of Advisors are women. Offering a history lesson in
the progress Tunisia has made in advancing women's rights,
Kallel recalled that his grandmother did not have the right
to speak. When she tried to offer an opinion, his
grandfather would tell her to be quiet, admonishing that,
"You have nothing to say." These days are over, Kallel
exclaimed, pointing to his two daughters -- one a Ph.D. in
mathematics and the other a medical doctor -- as examples.
Kallel also referred to the oft-repeated fact that a majority
of university students are women.


5. (C) Kallel described the GOT's policy of promoting
education for women as an important "rampart" in its strategy
of combating extremism. He lamented that, in spite of these
efforts, women and girls have proven to be susceptible to the
"retrograde" message carried by many satellite TV shows that
encourage Islamic "fanaticism." He noted that even a female
cousin of his had "fallen" for the charismatic Amr Khaled,
whose program is carried on the Iqraa channel (carried by
Nilesat). (Note: Amr Khaled's televised exhortations of
women to wear the hijab (Islamic headcovering) have
reportedly persuaded many Tunisian women -- among others --
to do so. End Note.) Harkening back to his story about his
grandmother, Kallel said that even she did not wear a
headcover. "It's retrograde!" he exclaimed, "and it is the
first step toward fanaticism." He argued that the "sheikhs"

(nfi) who finance these satellite TV channels must be
persuaded not to continue their funding, and program
directors must be convinced not to give airtime to
extremists.

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Combating Islamic Extremism Paramount...
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6. (C) Kallel devoted much of the meeting to security-related
issues. Recalling his two stints as Minister of Interior
under President Ben Ali, Kallel complained that Tunisia had
been isolated in combating extremism in the 1990's. He
faulted Spain for not acting on information the GOT had
provided in the mid-1990's about a passport forging
operation; the UK gave sanctuary to the leader of the banned
Islamist party an-Nahdha; in the French government, the only
counterpart who "got it" was then-Interior Minister Charles
Pasqua. Kallel was emphatic that combating Islamic extremism
in Tunisia "is a life or death issue." Asserting that
extremists are prepared to die for their cause, Kallel said
the best defense is taking the offensive -- "as you did in
Iraq."


7. (C/NF) Referring to the December 2006/January 2007
incidents in which Tunisian security forces disrupted a
terrorist cell, Kallel asserted, "They did not succeed,
because we are vigilant, and because the population is with
us." In this regard, he credited the GOT's policies
promoting women's rights and universal education, in
particular, in addition to Tunisia's strong middle class. He
noted that he and others in the GOT had taken solace from the
fact that the group did not benefit from substantial local
support. When some members of the group took flight, he
continued, they did not seek sanctuary among the population;
rather, they took refuge in an empty building.

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... Human Rights Less So
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8. (C) Again referring to his time as Interior Minister,
Kallel recounted a story in which an Assistant Secretary
(nfi) had called on him to inquire about a human rights case.
In this instance, the USG official was reportedly acting on
information provided by a non-governmental organization,
which alleged that the Government of Tunisia had arrested,
detained, killed, and buried an activist. Expressing
surprise that a US official had "nothing better" to spend his
time on, Kallel went on to explain that he had taken pleasure
in informing the official that, while the GOT had indeed
arrested and interrogated the suspect, the man had
subsequently been released and returned to his home in Beja.
"You have to verify your sources," Kallel gently suggested.
Referring to a case from that same era, in which two Tunisian
policemen were seriously wounded by Molotov cocktails, he
concluded with a rhetorical question: "Who looks after the
human rights of our policemen?" The Ambassador emphasized
the importance of protecting all human rights.

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Bilateral and Regional Relations:
Friends Helping Friends
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9. (C) During the meeting Kallel twice made the point that
Tunisia continues to rely on help from its "friends" in
combating extremism. He expressed regret that Tunisia had
been cut off from some development programs, indicating that
this amounted to punishment for its economic progress.
(Note: Kallel did not specifically mention the withdrawal of
USAID or the Peace Corps, both of which withdrew from Tunisia
in the early 1990's. End Note.) Making the case that the
GOT deserved more assistance, Kallel noted that Tunisia
serves as a base of stability for the region. Referring to a
recent meeting he had with Algerian President Bouteflika,
Kallel said the Algerian leader had told him, "When Algeria
has a problem, I tell my ministers to check to see how
Tunisia has handled it." Kallel said Tunisia also serves as
an "example" for Libya, although he noted that this sometimes
carries the cost of provoking Qaddhafi's anger.


10. (SBU) Noting the recent visit of CODEL Tanner (ref A),
Kallel expressed the hope that Tunisia would also see visits
by Senate delegations in the near future. "The more the
better!" he exclaimed, adding that he would also be willing
to lead a delegation to Washington.

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Comment/Bio Notes
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11. (C/NF) Kallel was an integral part of the Ben Ali junta,
and he is considered one of the founding fathers of the
regime. As has been the case in previous meetings, he
demonstrated the confidence of a trusted advisor who can
freely express his opinions. While the general thrust of his
remarks did not stray far from familiar GOT themes, the way
Kallel expressed himself was refreshingly individualized.
Kallel spoke fondly of his recollections of his two visits to
US aircraft carriers -- the USS Nimitz and the USS John F.
Kennedy -- and noted that he still prizes his tailhook
landing "diplomas." Although he twice referenced his
"modest" upbringing, he appeared comfortable in the opulent
surroundings of the recently constructed Chamber of Advisors
building. His spacious office, a few paces from the
Chamber's plenary, was lit by a magnificent crystal
chandelier; a large flat screen TV was installed on the wall
by his desk. Kallel noted with some satisfaction that the
second chamber's amenities made it much more comfortable than
the building occupied by the Chamber of Deputies. End
Comment.
GODEC