TUNISIA: TOUR D'HORIZON WITH CHAMBER OF ADVISORS

C O N F I D E N T I A L TUNIS 000753 SIPDIS NOFORN SIPDIS FOR NEA/MAG (HOPKINS AND HARRIS) E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/13/2017 TAGS: PGOV PREL PTER ELAB SOCI TS SUBJECT: TUNISIA: TOUR D'HORIZON WITH CHAMBER OF ADVISORS PRESIDENT REF: A. TUNIS 710 ¶B. 06 TUNIS 873 Classified By: Ambassador Robert F. Godec for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d). -------------- Summary -------------- ¶1. (C) In a June 8 courtesy call with the Ambassador, Chamber of Advisors President (and ruling RCD party Treasurer) Kallel focused on the necessity of taking an offensive posture in combating Islamic extremism. He noted that Tunisia had made great strides in promoting economic development, universal education, and women's rights as buttresses against extremism. Partly as a result of such steps, those who were involved in the December 2006/January 2007 clashes with GOT security services had not found succor among the local population. Even so, Kallel said, the GOT still needs assistance from its allies in this effort. Kallel was nostalgic about his bilateral interactions with USG officials over the years in his various ministerial roles. He made clear that he considered the United States' focus on human rights to be somewhat naive. End Summary. -------------- The Role of the Chamber Extolled -------------- ¶2. (C) Chamber of Advisors President Abdallah Kallel opened the 90-minute courtesy call with the Ambassador by providing background about how the Chamber operates. (Note: Ref B provides a description of Tunisia's second parliamentary body and the 2002 amendment to the Tunisian constitution that established it. End Note.) In his briefing, Kallel repeatedly contrasted the Chamber of Advisors with the Chamber of Deputies, which he characterized as composed of "young people with little experience." The Chamber of Advisors, he boasted, is comprised of individuals who are respected professionals and experts in their respective fields, including many former government ministers. He explained that, as a result, the debates are more substantive and the issues discussed more freely in the Chamber of Advisors. Kallel also noted that the debates in the second chamber are more lengthy; whereas a draft law is usually debated for 30 minutes in the Chamber of Deputies, four hours is the norm in the Chamber of Advisors. Chuckling, Kallel shrugged, "It can be difficult to cut off a former minister, once he has started talking." ¶3. (C) Asked about the still-vacant seats allotted to the General Union of Tunisian Workers (UGTT) in 2005, Kallel responded that, "It is an internal problem the UGTT is still discussing." Noting that it was "too bad" that the seats remained unfilled, Kallel continued that "the door remains open" to the UGTT. -------------- The Chamber of Advisors Reflects Advanced State of Women's' Rights -------------- ¶4. (C) Kallel was proud of the fact that 17 members of the Chamber of Advisors are women. Offering a history lesson in the progress Tunisia has made in advancing women's rights, Kallel recalled that his grandmother did not have the right to speak. When she tried to offer an opinion, his grandfather would tell her to be quiet, admonishing that, "You have nothing to say." These days are over, Kallel exclaimed, pointing to his two daughters -- one a Ph.D. in mathematics and the other a medical doctor -- as examples. Kallel also referred to the oft-repeated fact that a majority of university students are women. ¶5. (C) Kallel described the GOT's policy of promoting education for women as an important "rampart" in its strategy of combating extremism. He lamented that, in spite of these efforts, women and girls have proven to be susceptible to the "retrograde" message carried by many satellite TV shows that encourage Islamic "fanaticism." He noted that even a female cousin of his had "fallen" for the charismatic Amr Khaled, whose program is carried on the Iqraa channel (carried by Nilesat). (Note: Amr Khaled's televised exhortations of women to wear the hijab (Islamic headcovering) have reportedly persuaded many Tunisian women -- among others -- to do so. End Note.) Harkening back to his story about his grandmother, Kallel said that even she did not wear a headcover. "It's retrograde!" he exclaimed, "and it is the first step toward fanaticism." He argued that the "sheikhs" (nfi) who finance these satellite TV channels must be persuaded not to continue their funding, and program directors must be convinced not to give airtime to extremists. -------------- Combating Islamic Extremism Paramount... -------------- ¶6. (C) Kallel devoted much of the meeting to security-related issues. Recalling his two stints as Minister of Interior under President Ben Ali, Kallel complained that Tunisia had been isolated in combating extremism in the 1990's. He faulted Spain for not acting on information the GOT had provided in the mid-1990's about a passport forging operation; the UK gave sanctuary to the leader of the banned Islamist party an-Nahdha; in the French government, the only counterpart who "got it" was then-Interior Minister Charles Pasqua. Kallel was emphatic that combating Islamic extremism in Tunisia "is a life or death issue." Asserting that extremists are prepared to die for their cause, Kallel said the best defense is taking the offensive -- "as you did in Iraq." ¶7. (C/NF) Referring to the December 2006/January 2007 incidents in which Tunisian security forces disrupted a terrorist cell, Kallel asserted, "They did not succeed, because we are vigilant, and because the population is with us." In this regard, he credited the GOT's policies promoting women's rights and universal education, in particular, in addition to Tunisia's strong middle class. He noted that he and others in the GOT had taken solace from the fact that the group did not benefit from substantial local support. When some members of the group took flight, he continued, they did not seek sanctuary among the population; rather, they took refuge in an empty building. -------------- ... Human Rights Less So -------------- ¶8. (C) Again referring to his time as Interior Minister, Kallel recounted a story in which an Assistant Secretary (nfi) had called on him to inquire about a human rights case. In this instance, the USG official was reportedly acting on information provided by a non-governmental organization, which alleged that the Government of Tunisia had arrested, detained, killed, and buried an activist. Expressing surprise that a US official had "nothing better" to spend his time on, Kallel went on to explain that he had taken pleasure in informing the official that, while the GOT had indeed arrested and interrogated the suspect, the man had subsequently been released and returned to his home in Beja. "You have to verify your sources," Kallel gently suggested. Referring to a case from that same era, in which two Tunisian policemen were seriously wounded by Molotov cocktails, he concluded with a rhetorical question: "Who looks after the human rights of our policemen?" The Ambassador emphasized the importance of protecting all human rights. -------------- Bilateral and Regional Relations: Friends Helping Friends -------------- ¶9. (C) During the meeting Kallel twice made the point that Tunisia continues to rely on help from its "friends" in combating extremism. He expressed regret that Tunisia had been cut off from some development programs, indicating that this amounted to punishment for its economic progress. (Note: Kallel did not specifically mention the withdrawal of USAID or the Peace Corps, both of which withdrew from Tunisia in the early 1990's. End Note.) Making the case that the GOT deserved more assistance, Kallel noted that Tunisia serves as a base of stability for the region. Referring to a recent meeting he had with Algerian President Bouteflika, Kallel said the Algerian leader had told him, "When Algeria has a problem, I tell my ministers to check to see how Tunisia has handled it." Kallel said Tunisia also serves as an "example" for Libya, although he noted that this sometimes carries the cost of provoking Qaddhafi's anger. ¶10. (SBU) Noting the recent visit of CODEL Tanner (ref A), Kallel expressed the hope that Tunisia would also see visits by Senate delegations in the near future. "The more the better!" he exclaimed, adding that he would also be willing to lead a delegation to Washington. -------------- Comment/Bio Notes -------------- ¶11. (C/NF) Kallel was an integral part of the Ben Ali junta, and he is considered one of the founding fathers of the regime. As has been the case in previous meetings, he demonstrated the confidence of a trusted advisor who can freely express his opinions. While the general thrust of his remarks did not stray far from familiar GOT themes, the way Kallel expressed himself was refreshingly individualized. Kallel spoke fondly of his recollections of his two visits to US aircraft carriers -- the USS Nimitz and the USS John F. Kennedy -- and noted that he still prizes his tailhook landing "diplomas." Although he twice referenced his "modest" upbringing, he appeared comfortable in the opulent surroundings of the recently constructed Chamber of Advisors building. His spacious office, a few paces from the Chamber's plenary, was lit by a magnificent crystal chandelier; a large flat screen TV was installed on the wall by his desk. Kallel noted with some satisfaction that the second chamber's amenities made it much more comfortable than the building occupied by the Chamber of Deputies. End Comment. GODEC