FRENCH AMBASSADOR,S VIEWS ON TUNISIAN POLITICAL

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 TUNIS 001095 SIPDIS SIPDIS STATE FOR NEA/MAG (HARRIS AND HOPKINS) E.O. 12958: DECL: 08/13/2017 TAGS: PGOV KDEM PREL PTER FR TS SUBJECT: FRENCH AMBASSADOR,S VIEWS ON TUNISIAN POLITICAL SCENE REF: A. TUNIS 1076 ¶B. TUNIS 1004 ¶C. TUNIS 949 ¶D. TUNIS 986 Classified By: Ambassador Robert F. Godec for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d) -------------- SUMMARY -------------- ¶1. (C) French Ambassador Serge Degallaix told Ambassador Godec August 8 that the French Government believes the GOT is making progress on democracy and human rights, albeit slowly. Degallaix also said: -- President Sarkozy's visit to Tunisia was excellent, but major changes in French policy vis--vis Tunisia are unlikely. -- While Sarkozy raised with President Ben Ali the general importance of progress on human rights and freedom, it was Ben Ali himself who raised the case of Mohammed Abbou, who was released from prison in late July. ¶2. (C) Godec emphasized to Degallaix that while the release of Abbou was a positive step, the United States believes the GOT needs to make further progress on the Freedom Agenda particularly prior to the 2009 elections. Degallaix agreed that there are some areas where progress is needed and US-French (and US-EU) cooperation on a message might be possible. End Summary. -------------- Sarkozy raised human rights, but not Abbou -------------- ¶3. (C) French Ambassador to Tunisia Serge Degallaix and US Ambassador Godec had a lengthy conversation over lunch August ¶8. The atmosphere was friendly, and Degallaix was candid and open. Degallaix characterized the July 10-11 visit of President Sarkozy to Tunisia as ""excellent"" (ref c). He added that Sarkozy is unlikely to make major changes in French policy toward Tunisia, but there would be some differences as the result of the new President's energy and focus on practical progress. ¶4. (C) In response to a question, Degallaix said Sarkozy raised with Ben Ali, ""in an appropriate way,"" human rights, freedom and the treatment of prisoners. It was Ben Ali, however, who raised the release of lawyer Mohammed Abbou. (NB. As reported in ref d, Abbou was released on July 24.) Degallaix acknowledged that the GOF was pleased with the release and that Abbou's imprisonment had become an issue. Nevertheless, he insisted, ""Abbou is not a friend of the West"" pointing to reports that Abbou ""welcomed"" jihadis going to Iraq (for example). (NB. Abbou has denied to Emboffs making any such statements.) ¶5. (C) Degallaix said planning is beginning for Sarkozy's state visit at the beginning of next year. While there are no specific objectives as of yet, there will be a focus on the proposed Mediterranean Union. -------------- Tunisia is not a dictatorship... -------------- ¶6. (C) Turning to Tunisia's internal political situation, Degallaix insisted ""Tunisia is not a dictatorship"" and its leaders genuinely listen to the country's people. He added the GOT is making progress on human rights and freedom, albeit slowly. As signs of progress, he pointed to the release of Abbou and increased freedom of expression in the press. On the Tunisian Human Rights League (LTDH),Degallaix said the head of Tunisia's human rights commission, Moncer Rouissi, is working to resolve the current impasse and to allow the LTDH to resume its work (refs a and b). ¶7. (C) Degallaix said Ben Ali and the GOT are walking a tightrope politically. They need and want to open up, but if they do so too quickly they risk opening the door to Islamists. For example, Degallaix said, if the GOT allows liberal, secular groups more freedom to establish NGOs, then Islamists will have the same right. The Saudis and others, Degallaix said, would immediately open up Islamic schools and other organizations to preach and spread extreme views. Such a development would be extremely unfortunate. ¶8. (C) Godec acknowledged that the GOT had made some TUNIS 00001095 002 OF 003 progress on Freedom Agenda issues in recent years, and that included the release of Abbou. Nevertheless, the GOT could do more. The key, he continued, is the 2009 elections, and there needs to be progress before they are held if they are going to be free and fair. Godec stressed there were several possibilities, including unblocking websites and additional freedom of expression. Degallaix acknowledged the 2009 elections are key, but emphasized that if a free and fair election were held today Ben Ali would win. (Comment. We agree. End comment.) Godec told Degallaix he had made a short list of areas for progress by the GOT. Degallaix asked for a copy and Godec agreed to provide it. (The list will also be sent to NEA by email.) Degallaix said he agreed there are some possibilities for progress, such as allowing liberal, secular parties additional ""public space"" for debate, including access to TV and radio. He added that other countries in the European Union, e.g., the Netherlands, would also be interested in coordinating views on possible areas for progress. ¶9. (C) Godec asked whether the French had any indication of whether Ben Ali intended to run again in 2009. Degallaix said that they did not have anything certain. Nevertheless, he said that Ben Ali, in a recent regional tour d'horizon with a French minister, said that Egyptian President Mubarak ""needed to know when to leave."" The French interpreted this remark as a possible hint from Ben Ali regarding his own future. ¶10. (C) On corruption, Degallaix said it was not as bad as many places, but it is a concern. He noted the ""considerable"" domestic opposition to the ""family"" of Ben Ali, adding there is a perception they are not bound by the same rules as other Tunisians. Degallaix did not believe that Ben Ali was aware of the extent of the problem. ¶11. (C) Degallaix asked whether the United States intended to seek a free trade agreement with Tunisia. Godec responded that the United States was interested, but is not yet convinced that the Tunisians understand what would be required. Degallaix agreed, noting the Tunisians are very cautious and conservative when taking any steps that might have a domestic backlash. -------------- CT Cooperation: Getting better -------------- ¶12. (C) In response to a question about counter-terrorism cooperation, Degallaix said he thought it was improving. Godec responded the US-Tunisian CT relationship is good, but Tunisia is still not sharing as much information on internal issues as the United States would like. Degallaix agreed that the failure of the GOT to respond to a G-8 request for a meeting with the Minister of Interior was remarkable. ¶13. (C) On CT cooperation with the military, Godec noted the delivery of seven US helicopters to the Tunisians and Degallaix said they needed them. He added that France may also provide helicopters to Tunisia. -------------- Med Union: Practical projects first -------------- ¶14. (C) In brief discussion of the Mediterranean Union, Degallaix emphasized that it is not intended to replace the Euro-Med dialogue or other organizations. Rather, it would be a mechanism for consultation and cooperation on specific projects among the countries. He cited, specifically, the possibility of cooperation on energy projects. He added that other countries, including Japan and the United States, might wish to cooperate on specific projects. He acknowledged, as well, that it would take an effort to define who ought to be part of such a union. -------------- Comment -------------- ¶15. (C) Degallaix is one of France's more senior diplomats, and reportedly close to Sarkozy. The frank and friendly conversation may well reflect the warmer US-French relations generally in the wake of Sarkozy's election. Degallaix' willingness to consider further coordination on a political message to Tunisia was welcome. We will work to take advantage of it. Also notable was Degallaix admission that Sarkozy did not specifically raise Abbou's case with Ben Ali. It suggests that Ben Ali, at least, is listening to the international criticism on human rights and is prepared to TUNIS 00001095 003 OF 003 act, at least occasionally. GODEC