ISRAEL: CODEL ACKERMAN AND FM LIVNI DISCUSS

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 TEL AVIV 001113

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DEPT FOR H AND NEA /IPA

E.O. 12958: DECL: 04/13/2017
TAGS: PREL PGOV KPAL KWBG IR IS
SUBJECT: ISRAEL: CODEL ACKERMAN AND FM LIVNI DISCUSS
PALESTINIANS AND IRAN


Classified By: Ambassador Richard H. Jones, Reasons: 1.4 (B and D).


1. (C) SUMMARY: During a meeting in Tel Aviv on April 12
with Representative Gary Ackerman (D-NY) and the Ambassador,
Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni explained Israel's belief that
it is impossible to distinguish between Hamas and non-Hamas
members of the Palestinian government. She urged the
international community to "empower" moderates by demanding
action against the radicals, and said the GOI would continue
to maintain contact with Palestinian President Abu Mazen
(Mahmud Abbas). Rep. Ackerman noted the importance of both
supporting Abu Mazen and simultaneously challenging him to
act. When asked about Iran, Livni replied that sanctions are
having a real effect. Rep. Ackerman was accompanied by
Majority Professional Staff Member Howard Diamond and Staff
Director David Adams from the House Committee on Foreign
Affairs. Livni was joined by special assistant Hillel Newman
and U.S. legislative branch director Eyal Sela. END SUMMARY.

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GOI Policy Towards the National Unity Government
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2. (C) Livni explained the GOI's policy decision against
distinguishing between Hamas and non-Hamas members of the
Palestinian National Unity Government (NUG). She disagreed
with the USG and others on this issue, cautioning that
meeting with the non-Hamas ministers "is the beginning of a
process of legitimization" for the NUG even though it does
not accept the Quartet principles. She had previously met
with current NUG Finance Minister Salam Fayyad, but no longer
does so since such meetings would only increase his access to
funding and ability to implement NUG policies.


3. (C) Livni said Abu Mazen had told her he needed the NUG to
gain time to strengthen Fatah. In her analysis, the NUG had
not helped Fatah, although it had reestablished an element of
stability among Palestinian factions. Abu Mazen had not
confronted Hamas or even stuck by his insistence that
abducted IDF soldier Gilad Shalit be freed. In response to a
question by Rep. Ackerman, Livni said she believes that
Palestinians see the NUG as a Hamas government, just as
Israelis view their own coalition as a Kadima government.
Rep. Ackerman noted that the Palestinian foreign minister had
expressed a different viewpoint during a meeting earlier in
the day. He asked if Hamas would be blamed by Palestinians
for the lack of progress, just as Fatah had been criticized
for its corruption and inability to deliver a better life.

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Dealing with Abu Mazen and Strengthening Moderates
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4. (C) Although the GOI had been tempted to "close the door"
on Abu Mazen after formation of the NUG, Livni said that
contact would be maintained. PM Olmert and Abu Mazen will
meet on April 15 to discuss practical issues and a political
horizon for a future Palestinian state. Livni reiterated
that Israel intends to take steps to improve the standard of
living for the Palestinian population.


5. (C) Rep. Ackerman stressed the importance of obtaining
Palestinian acceptance for the Quartet principles and asked
if cutting assistance would have a negative impact on this
goal. He also asked if the GOI or USG had a plan to help
avoid the radicalization of the broader Palestinian
population. Livni responded that in the Middle East "we have
to choose between bad options." The GOI had hoped the
disengagement from Gaza would signal its seriousness about
peace. The Palestinian response was to elect Hamas.
Afterwards, the GOI had tried to distinguish between Hamas
and moderates in Fatah led by Abu Mazen, offering the latter
security assistance, funding, and a political horizon for a
Palestinian state. Livni said that the NUG meant that such a
strategy is no longer feasible.


6. (C) Livni urged the international community to "empower"
moderates by demanding action against the radicals. She
suggested that weak politicians could use outside pressure as
an excuse for taking tough steps they know they must take in
any case, such as acknowledging that the "right of return"
will only be valid to the territory of a Palestinian state.
She expects Palestinians to show leadership and confront
radicalism in their own society. In her opinion, a failure
to do so will shift the Israeli-Palestinian dispute from a
national to a religious conflict, something that is not in
anyone's interest.


7. (C) Rep. Ackerman noted that we are dealing with a
well-intentioned Palestinian President, but one who is not

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adept at politics or effective at implementing his own
policies. With no alternative to his leadership at present,
it is important both to support Abu Mazen and to challenge
him to act. Livni agreed, adding that it is also essential
to speak plainly when he makes mistakes. Allowing Hamas to
participate in the 2006 elections had been one such case, and
his current focus on final status issues is another. In
Livni's view, such a focus would doom any talks to failure
and result in a new Intifada.


8. (C) Rep. Ackerman mentioned that some non-Hamas members of
the NUG are unambiguous on the need for a two state solution.
He suggested that these individuals could use their clout in
the Arab world to advance peace. Livni replied that she had
met with a number of Arab leaders and believed they
understand both the need for a two-state solution and the
fact that Iran -- not Israel -- is the threat to the region.
At the same time, if Arab League foreign ministers decide
that only Egypt and Jordan will speak about peace with
Israel, then they are missing the point. Accordingly, Israel
is lobbying for a larger Arab group to help guide the
Palestinians towards peace.

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The Limits of Democratization
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9. (C) In response to a question by Rep. Ackerman about the
January 2006 Palestinian elections, Livni said that "I
believe in democratization when it comes with certain
preconditions," i.e., an acceptance of the rule of law and
democratic principles. She noted that established
democracies have banned non-democratic parties through
constitutional means. She regretted that Hamas had been
permitted to contest the 2006 elections despite their
rejection of democratic principles, a step that Abu Mazen had
insisted he needed. She drew a parallel to Lebanon, asking
what would happen if Hizballah gains power there.

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Iran: Sanctions are Useful
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10. (C) When asked about Iran, Livni replied that Israel
believes that extended and more effective sanctions are
having a real effect. She praised the constructive role of
Russia during the UNSCR 1747 debate. The Israeli assessment
is that the Iranians lied when they declared that they had
passed the point of no return in their nuclear enrichment
program. Livni also acknowledged that Ahmeninijad's fiery
rhetoric had convinced many doubters of the seriousness of
the Iranian threat.


11. (U) CoDel Ackerman has cleared this cable.

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