DRL DELEGATION DISCUSSES EXPANDING TIES WITH

C O N F I D E N T I A L RIYADH 002051 SIPDIS SIPDIS DEPT PLEASE PASS TO DRL FOR EBARKS-RUGGLES/JLIEBERMAN AND NEA/ARP FOR RJACHIM/SRAMESH E.O. 12958: DECL: 09/08/2017 TAGS: PHUM PGOV KDEM ECPS SOCI SCUL SA SUBJECT: DRL DELEGATION DISCUSSES EXPANDING TIES WITH REPRESENTATIVES OF SAUDI JUDICIARY, "PROTO-PARLIAMENT" REF: 2007 RIYADH 00581 Classified By: Pol Counselor David Rundell for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d). ¶1. (C) SUMMARY: Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor (DRL) Deputy Assistant Secretary (DAS) Erica Barks-Ruggles visited Riyadh, Saudi Arabia June 4-7, 2007, to discuss with SAG officials opportunities for legal and legislative exchanges, as well as possible programs for technical support. Interlocutors expressed interest in a range of exchange programs, including exchanges for judges, law students, Majlis Al-Shura members and staff, and private sector legal experts. It was agreed that the best approach would be for DRL to formally request participation for representatives of the judiciary, laws schools, and the Shura Council in the next U.S. - Saudi Arabia Strategic Dialouge,s (SD) Human Development Working Group (HDWG),as well as to submit formal, detailed proposals for exchanges. END SUMMARY. ¶2. (C) DRL DAS Erica Barks-Ruggles visited Riyadh, Saudi Arabia June 4-7, 2007, conducting separate meetings with the Grievance Board, Ministries of Foreign Affairs (MFA) and Justice (MOJ),the Majlis Al-Shura, and King Saud University College of Administration and Political Science. Barks-Ruggles also met with the Human Rights Commission and the National Society for Human Rights (septel). These meetings, which focused on expanding ties with representatives of the Kingdom,s judicial system and "proto-parliament" (Majlis Al-Shura) and exploring possible joint exchanges, followed up on meetings held in Riyadh in December 2006 (reftel). Barks-Ruggles was accompanied by U.S. District Court (Minnesota) Judge Michael J. Davis, James Filpi of the U.S. Department of Commerce,s Commercial Law Development Program (CLDP),and R. Andrew Mosley of the U.S. Department of State,s Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, Middle East Partnership Initiative (MEPI). Representatives of the National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL) joined the delegation for the meeting with the Majlis Al-Shura. -------------- MINISTRY OF JUSTICE -------------- ¶3. (C) The delegation met with Advisor to the Minister of Justice Dr. Abdul Malik A. M. al-Sheikh and two Shari,a judges -- Suleman al-Majed and Mansour al-Qefary. Al-Sheikh explained that MOJ provides administrative assistance to Shari,a courts but that judges represent the courts. He said the Saudi judicial system is based on Shari,a, which uses the Qur,an, Hadiths (the Prophet,s sayings),the four Sunni legal schools, and "reasonings." In addition to Shari,a courts, there are six specialized courts. Each specialized court has an appeals court. ¶4. (C) Al-Majed and al-Qefary said that each case may involve up to 13 judges and judges have a minimum of 30 years of experience. Three judges decide a case, and five judges review the decision. If there is an appeal, five other judges on the Supreme Judicial Council can review the decision made by the five-member review panel. They explained that the main job of a Shari,a judge is to apply the facts to the law, adding that, as in the U.S. system, individuals can defend themselves. ¶5. (C) Al-Majed and al-Qefary expressed interest in CLDP,s proposal for commercial law exchanges for judges, law professors, and law students. Al-Sheikh stated that MOJ supports visits by Saudi judges to other countries, and would like to have judges and MOJ officials participate in such exchanges. The HDWG has discussed exchanges between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, but the MOJ noted that MFA will have to make the decision on this proposal. -------------- GRIEVANCE BOARD -------------- ¶6. (C) During Barks-Ruggles, meeting with Grievance Board Chairman Sheikh Mohamed Abdullah al-Amin, who is of ministerial rank, he explained that this special branch was initially established in 1953. The 1992 Grievance Board Law made the Board an independent administrative board reporting directly to the King and independent of the Council of Ministers (COM). The King appoints the chairman and judges based on the recommendations of the Board,s Administrative Committee, which is also responsible for taking disciplinary action against judges if necessary. Al-Amin emphasized that there is no link between the Board and MOJ, explaining that the Board is considered an "administrative judiciary" whereas the Shari,a courts are considered the "public judiciary." ¶7. (C) Al-Amin said the Board hears claims against the SAG, including for corruption and compensation issues, as well as commercial disputes and cases involving forgery, bribery, and misuse of SAG funds. He described the Board,s specialized judicial departments, explaining that there are three judges for each department and each department has sub-departments comprising a single judge who looks at simple claims. ¶8. (C) Al-Amin continued that when a claim or case is filed, it is assigned to a specialized department that provides written notice of the day, date, location, and time of the hearing. The department's three-judge panel then hears the case with the concerned parties present and issues a verdict. Anyone can appeal a verdict to a higher judicial body called the Examining Board, which is comprised of three different judges. If the appeal is rejected, the Court of Examinations, which consists of three judges, studies the case to determine whether the case is legally correct and responds accordingly. The case is then referred back to the Board, if necessary, for reconsideration based on the remarks in the verdict. The Board can change the verdict or insist on the original verdict. However, if it insists on the original verdict, the case is referred once more to the Court of Examinations for another review. The Court then either agrees with that decision or re-hears the case. The final verdict is binding for all concerned. ¶9. (C) Al-Amin emphasized that all hearings are public and anyone can attend them unless there are security concerns. No evidence can be submitted unless both parties receive it and have the right of reply, and the claimant and defendant can represent themselves or hire a lawyer to do so. Al-Amin claimed that Saudi justice is based on transparency and simple procedures, saying that the system facilitates to the greatest extent possible the achievement of rights and justice. When asked, he did note that women can neither be judges nor lawyers and may not represent themselves in court. ¶10. (C) Turning to the possibility of participation in an exchange program, al-Amin asked that Barks-Ruggles submit through the MFA a specific, written proposal detailing the proposed program. He said this proposal will be given to the King for consideration and approval. Barks-Ruggles said she would send an invitation through the MFA for the Grievance Board to attend the next HDWG. -------------- KING SAUD UNIVERSITY (KSU) -------------- ¶11. (C) As part of its outreach to representatives of the Saudi justice system, the delegation met with KSU Dean Dr. Khalid bin Othman al-Omair, former Dean Dr. Hind Khutaila, and Professor Fahad bin Ibrahim al-Doyan. Dr. Khalid reiterated that there are two types of judges in the Kingdom -- Shari,a judges and those who are employed in the specialed courts, including the Board of Grievances. He said that KSU is using information from Harvard University on how to establish a law faculty and expressed interest in receiving an invitation from the USG to observe U.S. court procedures and law schools. ¶12. (C) Dr. Khalid suggested that exchanges for Saudi law students could start with the 2007-2008 academic year, adding that it would be beneficial for female U.S. judges to meet with female Saudi law students. He said that Saudi students would benefit greatly from meeting with U.S. judges at Prince Sultan and King Saud Universities, where female law sections are now beginning their second year. He welcomed visits by U.S. judges to the Kingdom and called for Saudi law students to visit the U.S. These interlocutors agreed that it would be useful for Saudi law school deans to visit the U.S. and explore the possibility of faculty and student exchanges, noting that the SAG has allowed KSU to contact or visit Harvard University, Oxford University, and the Sorbonne. ¶13. (C) Dr. Hind stressed the need to raise awareness on a "person-to-person" basis regarding the Kingdom,s need for law schools. She said that it is the Saudi public that does not understand or support having women lawyers or judges, not the SAG or professors. She called for the media to educate the public about the fact that women lawyers and judges would not be contrary to Islam. ¶14. (C) Dr. Hind also said that more needs to be done to ensure the independence of the judicial system. However, Dr. Khalid suggested that the judicial system could never be totally independent, adding that the SAG is working to increase this independence. Dr. Khalid continued that the King would soon issue a new law on the judiciary reconfirming its independence. ¶15. (C) There was a great deal of interest in a variety of justice related exchanges. Professor Fahad expressed interest in learning more about the protection of human rights during a trial, and said he would like to learn more about commercial law, the administration of courts, and the training of clerks. Dr. Khalid called for a memorandum of understanding (MOU) between the USG and the SAG regarding legal and judicial cooperation and asked Barks-Ruggles to send a letter in October through the MFA to the Ministry of Higher Education requesting that he provide suggestions for exchanges for both students and judges. ¶16. (C) Dr. Hind said that this proposal should not be limited to law students and asked Barks-Ruggles to also send a letter in October to the MFA requesting that the private sector and law firms be involved in these exchanges. Dr. Khalid also suggested a MOU between the USG and the SAG regarding exchanges of information, professors, students, and legal experts. All endorsed including law school faculty and professors in HDWG-sponsored exchanges and asked that they be included in any future invitations. -------------- MFA ON JUDICIAL SYSTEM -------------- ¶17. (C) Prince Mohammed bin Saud al-Saud, formerly MFA,s lead on the SD, told Barks-Ruggles that there are two major problems relating to the judiciary -- education of judges and lack of familiarity with international law. He said that few Shari,a graduates become judges, adding that the judge to population ratio -- one judge for every 20,000 Saudis -- is inadequate. He also said that judges do not review or reason cases well and noted that technology should improve the system by making it easier and faster to share information accurately. Some cases take five to ten years to resolve, he said, and people are frustrated with the courts. Prince Mohammed indicated that MOJ is moving in the right direction with the new laws and regulations it has implemented, which are now posted on its website. He pointed out that now that these rules are written and accessible, people can better understand their rights and the consequences of their actions, but more education efforts on this front are needed. ¶18. (C) Prince Mohammed also highlighted the general lack of information about international law -- especially regarding the World Trade Organization (WTO). He said the courts are not ready for the WTO, noting that judges need to understand how international law works with Shari,a. He noted also that Saudi judges must learn about such topics as banking and insurance, adding the SAG needs help in writing laws in accordance with international agreements. ¶19. (C) Barks-Ruggles also met with MFA's Prince Turki bin Mohammed bin Saud al-Kabeer, the new Saudi chair of the HDWG, who focused his entire monologue on regional issues. Prince Turki stressed that the U.S. and Saudi Arabia have strong mutual interests, emphasizing that the U.S. should not think of the Kingdom as just a crude oil producer. Prince Turki was clearly focused on regional issues and not well versed in the HDWG or the Strategic Dialogue. He also raised visa issues with the delegation and appeared uninformed about the judicial and legal exchange efforts that have been underway for some time vis-a-vis the HDWG. (NOTE: Although it will be a challenge to have him on the other side of the table in the dialogue, Prince Turki has a reputation for being able to deliver once engaged. We will need to work hard to engage him such that his chairmanship of the HDWG will be productive for human rights, reform, and exchange efforts, rather than a another platform for discussing regional issues best addressed in other bi-lateral fora. END NOTE.) -------------- SHURA COUNCIL -------------- ¶20. (C) Barks-Ruggles, delegation met with Majlis Al-Shura Chairman Dr. Saleh bin Abdullah al-Humaid to discuss legislative exchanges and technical assistance. Majlis members attending the meeting included Islamic Affairs Committee Chairman Dr. Ibrahim al-Ibrahim, Energy and Economic Committee member Dr. Majed al-Muneif, Laws, Management and Petitions Committee member Dr. Saud al-Shammary, Advisor to Chairman al-Humaid Mr. Ibrahim al-Salman, and Manager of the Majlis Chairman,s Office Mr. Muhanna bin Salman al-Muhanna. ¶21. (C) Al-Humaid welcomed exchanges between members and staff of the U.S. Congress and the Majlis, stating that it would be helpful for Shura Council administrative staff to learn more about networking and how the U.S. Congress functions. He agreed that that the Council would be willing to send one member and staff to join the next SD HDWG and participate in a first set of exchanges with the U.S. Congress and state legislatures. ¶22. (C) According to al-Humaid, the Shura Council has reached out to similar bodies with some members attending a worldwide conference of parliamentarians and others traveling to visit the Canadian parliament. Al-Humaid agreed to consider the NCSL proposal but noted that the Shura has already contracted Booz Allen Hamilton and McKinsey to modernize its information and administrative infrastructure, including the implementation of "E-government," as well as to do budgeting capacity building. He said these contracts will cost over USD 26.6 million (SAR 100 million) and last 18 months. The projects will include an evaluation of the Council,s operations and recommendations for technical and financial assistance. (NOTE: It is unclear whether these contracts have actually been signed. Other Majlis sources have told us in subsequent meetings that the Council has not signed contracts with either firm. END NOTE.) ¶23. (C) Al-Humaid confirmed that the Shura Council is interested in improving its research capabilities, as stated at the December 2006 meeting of the HDWG. He explained that the Council wants to transform its library into a specialized research department. This specialized research department would conduct more profound studies and better meet the needs of Council members. ¶24. (U) This cable has been cleared by DRL DAS Barks-Ruggles. FRAKER