USCIRF IN HCMC: PROTESTANT HOUSE CHURCH LEADERS

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 03 HO CHI MINH CITY 001233 SIPDIS SENSITIVE SIPDIS STATE FOR EAP/MLS, DRL/IRF, DRL/AWH E.O. 12958: N/A TAGS: PGOV PREL KIRF VM SUBJECT: USCIRF IN HCMC: PROTESTANT HOUSE CHURCH LEADERS REF: HCMC 1021 HO CHI MIN 00001233 001.2 OF 003 Summary -------------- ¶1. (SBU) The USCIRF delegation kicked off their visit to Ho Chi Minh City on October 24 with a house church roundtable of Protestant leaders from the Assembly of God, United Baptist Church, United Gospel Outreach Church and Baptist Alliance Church congregations in Vietnam. The pastors were unified in their view that while there have been positive changes with respect to religious freedom in Vietnam since the new legal framework was implemented in 2004, problems persist. Issues raised by the pastors primarily focused on their dealings with local-level officials in the provinces, including demands for lists of church members and harassment from authorities. Many expressed frustration over the delays and complications with the registration process. While the pastors forcefully recounted their troubles to the USCIRF delegation, their presentations also made it clear that they have all developed an ongoing dialogue with various branches of the GVN and pastors expressed no qualms about raising their concerns to the highest levels when warranted. The pastors also believed the GVN's change of policy has not yet translated into a change in attitude, and agreed with the USCIRF's position that certain religious activities are construed as "political" by the GVN. End summary. Problems in the Provinces -------------- ¶2. (SBU) Commissioners Cromartie, Bansal, Eid, Gaer, and Argue and staffers Scott Flipse and David Dettoni attended the house church roundtable with Protestant leaders Pastor Duong Thanh Lam from the Assembly of God (AOG),Pastor Pham Toan Ai from the United Baptist Church, Pastor Daniel Pham Dinh Nhan from the United Gospel Outreach Church (UGOC),and Pastor Henry Nguyen Ngoc Hien from the Baptist Alliance Church. All of the pastors represent denominations that have yet to be officially recognized by the GVN. While all agreed that conditions for their congregations have improved since the implementation of the legal framework on religion in 2004, they also noted ongoing problems in the provinces and frustrations with the registration process. The pastors' reactions to the religious regulations ranged from resignation to indignation as they discussed the common problems they shared, which included: --lack of local-level officials' knowledge of the legal framework on religion, resulting in inaction or delays on church registrations; --local officials demanding lists of followers for each congregation (not required by law) and then using the lists to interrogate followers at their homes; --harassment of leaders and followers in the Northwest, the Delta, and the Central Highlands, with harassment ranging from confiscating Bibles to beatings, detentions and public denouncement sessions; (The pastors said it is not usually uniformed police, but "hired thugs" who are intimidating their followers.) --denial of GVN benefits (poverty reduction, veteran's and disabled persons benefits) to practitioners in an effort to dissuade them from following the church. What Every Protestant Should Know -------------- ¶3. (SBU) Since 2004, the pastors believe attempts by the GVN to stop the spread of Protestantism have become less overt, but were still evident. The pastors showed the USCIRF delegation a small purple pamphlet called "Things Every Protestant Needs to Know," which they said was being circulated among their followers, especially in the Central Highlands. The pamphlet is full of anti-Protestant invective that accuses churches of propagating anti-scientific ideas, inveigling followers into giving up their wages, and calls pastors "CIA spies" and "tools of the US." When the USCIRF asked the pastors whom they thought was responsible for the pamphlet, the pastors replied that only the government or the police would be able to publish and disseminate materials on such a large scale. (Comment: The pastors are almost certainly correct; the GVN maintains tight control in this area and unauthorized pamphleteering is treated as a serious offense.) ¶4. (SBU) Pastor Henry, who often dominated the discussion at the roundtable, said he had also secretly obtained a GVN training manual that codifies the GVN's approach to Protestantism. He said the manual divides followers into three categories: long-term believers who have studied theology and church doctrine, baptized laypeople who have not studied religious theory, and new members who are not yet baptized. Pastor Henry believes the GVN is concentrating its efforts on trying to HO CHI MIN 00001233 002.2 OF 003 dissuade new, non-baptized followers from continuing with their faith using the intimidation tactics and the discriminatory treatment noted above. Recognition With Conditions -------------- ¶5. (SBU) Most pastors reported registering congregations has been slow and uneven in terms of the application of the legal framework. Congregations in Ho Chi Minh City and provincial capitals seemed to have the best experiences and fastest processing times, with a few notable exceptions. Pastor Lam from the AOG said that the congregation's leadership had been approached by the Committee on Religious Affairs (CRA) in October as part of the GVN's effort to finalize national registration procedures for several churches that had been operating in Vietnam before 1975, including Baptist, Mennonite and Presbyterian groups (reftel). The CRA told AOG they could qualify for national registration, but only if they changed their organizational structure and their charter. Lam said changing the AOG's organization and charter were non-starters, as both are an inherent part of their history and faith, now practiced by approximately 57 million people in over 200 countries. Lam also told the CRA that the AOG's structure was an internal church matter, and did not violate the GVN's laws or regulations. Lam said due to the AOG's unwillingness to make changes, discussions with the CRA were now at a standstill. ¶6. (SBU) While most pastors agreed their congregations were now meeting freely whether they were registered or not, several said recent registrations had specified the times and days groups were allowed to meet. Pastor Daniel from UGOC also said two denominations in HCMC had received registrations valid only for one year. (Note: This is the first time post has received reports of registrations "expiring" after a specified period of time.) When asked by Commissioner Bansal whether registration was a worthwhile endeavor, most pastors said that although the process was slow and flawed, it was still a process that allowed them to engage constructively with the GVN and work towards eventual national recognition. Registration Scorecard -------------- ¶7. (SBU) From the numbers reported by the pastors, it was evident that their congregations are growing in Vietnam, but registration processing was slow-moving. Assembly of God--350 meeting points, 25,000 followers, only 30 successfully registered Vietnam Baptist Convention--161 meeting points, only 18 successfully registered pre-WTO, none registered after, 6 registrations denied United Gospel Outreach Church--200 congregations, 16,000 followers, 127 registrations filed, only 16 successfully registered (all in the South). United Baptist Church--90 meeting points, 60 registrations filed, 4 successfully registered Change in Policy, Not in Attitude -------------- ¶8. (SBU) As the meeting drew to a close, the pastors expressed their thanks for the USCIRF's and USG's support, noting their belief that international pressure and advocacy were forcing the GVN to adopt a policy of religious freedom as part of their overall global integration strategy. The pastors were also skeptical that the GVN's change in policy has translated into a real change in attitudes. All the pastors agreed that while their GVN interlocutors are putting a more positive face on relations these days, officials were still employing a variety of tactics to dissuade followers from practicing Protestantism. The difference now is that intimidation and harassment are more likely to be carried out by plainclothes security personnel rather than uniformed police. When Commissioner Gaer asked if the pastors thought GVN perceived their activities as "religious" but their communications with American organizations like USCIRF and USG as "political," the pastors nodded agreement in unison. Comment -------------- ¶9. (SBU) The pastors at the roundtable gave honest and open accounts of their experiences, and answered the CIRF delegation's questions in the same manner they answer the Consulate's. Many of the pastors have likened their relationship with the GVN to a "parent giving out sweets one candy at a time." While there is more freedom, it has its HO CHI MIN 00001233 003.2 OF 003 limits. Pastor Henry's passport was confiscated by authorities after several "unauthorized" trips to Cambodia, and he believes his outspoken criticism of the GVN's policy as well as his unwillingness to divulge names of his followers is part of the reason his group seems to be faring worse than others. Indeed, he said his congregations experienced more freedoms before the GVN joined the WTO. Other pastors have developed a much more comfortable dialogue with their GVN interlocutors, though that has not prevented their congregations from facing problems from time to time. As post has reported previously, while the GVN's religious freedom policy is broad, implementation remains narrow. ¶10. (U) This cable was coordinated with Embassy Hanoi. FAIRFAX