USCIRF MEETS HCMC GVN: DEPUTY PARTY SECRETARY DUA

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 HO CHI MINH CITY 001193 SIPDIS SENSITIVE SIPDIS STATE FOR EAP/MLS, DRL/IRF, DRL/AWH E.O. 12958: N/A TAGS: PGOV PREL KIRF VM SUBJECT: USCIRF MEETS HCMC GVN: DEPUTY PARTY SECRETARY DUA HO CHI MIN 00001193 001.2 OF 002 Summary -------------- ¶1. (SBU) The USCIRF's meeting with Deputy Party Secretary Nguyen Van Dua on October 25 explored the reasons for implementing a legal framework on religion in Vietnam, with the CIRF questioning whether the law is a tool for freedom or control, and the Secretary justifying the need to protect Vietnam's citizens from "dishonest people." Dua affirmed that Vietnam's citizens can practice religion freely and invited CIRF to report abuses to his office directly. Dua also put the confiscated church property issue in the broader context of land rights use and development priorities in Vietnam, noting the GVN is working to resolve the land rights "disorder" that is a continuing legacy of years of conflict. Free Market for Religion -------------- ¶2. (SBU) As with HCMC People's Council Chairwoman Thao (septel), Commissioner Cromartie commended Vietnam for being a freer place than it was three years ago, but asked Deputy Party Secretary Dua to expand religious freedoms further. Cromartie linked economic prosperity with social and political freedoms, noting their interdependence in fostering a free society. Commissioner Argue said just as Ho Chi Minh City leads Vietnam in the area of economic growth and reform, HCMC should lead the country by fostering this same entrepreneurial attitude toward religious freedom. Commissioner Argue said "strong religious organizations will produce strong families and leading citizens." Dua responded to calls for HCMC to lead Hanoi on religious freedom issues by affirming Hanoi's lead on religious -- and all other -- policy in Vietnam, but said that leaders in both cities often exchange views on Vietnam's economic and social development priorities, including religious freedom issues. In response to Commissioner Argue's comments about the role of religion in building strong families, Dua relayed the story of his own mother, whom he described as a devout Buddhist, and the fact that she remained active in her temple even though Dua himself is both a non-believer and communist party official. When his mother passed away, Dua added, he followed all Buddhist traditions in arranging her funeral and memorial service. What's This Ordinance For, Anyway? -------------- ¶3. (SBU) Many Commissioners voiced concerns about whether the legal framework was aimed at enhancing or controlling religious freedoms, citing slow registrations, failure to recognize certain religious groups, and reports of provincial officials requiring lists of church followers -- lists that are then used to pressure followers to abandon their beliefs. Others raised concerns about vague language in the ordinance that could be interpreted restrictively, with Commissioner Bansal referring specifically to one provision that states "it is acceptable to worship as long as this worship propagates views in line with this nation's fine traditions." ¶4. (SBU) Dua responded by saying each country had its own cultural and societal values, and the CIRF looked at religious activities in Vietnam from their own unique perspective. Dua said the GVN issues guidelines with the intent to enhance the development of society and respond to the needs of the people and the legal framework on religion was enacted because religion is so important to many Vietnamese people. He stated that Vietnamese law ensures the right to follow a particular religion as long as that religion operates within the law. Responding to concerns about "vague language," Dua once again replied that the language only seemed vague when viewed outside its cultural and social context; he assured commissioners that within the Vietnamese tradition of reverence for family and social order, the meaning of the rules are quite clear. A Cautionary Tale -------------- ¶5. (SBU) Dua justified the need for a legal framework by recounting a fable about a man who claimed he had been possessed by a spirit and could cure disease. The man went around giving people unclean water as his "cure," which only made them more ill. Dua said it would be illogical to allow just anyone to set up a religious organization in Vietnam without the government ensuring the organization's good intentions. Dua compared the process for registering a religion to the process for registering a corporation or any other legal entity, noting the need to ensure order and protect the public from "dishonest persons." Dua said just as a business license can be revoked for illegal behavior, religious organizations that do not work in accordance with the conditions of their license could theoretically have their licenses revoked by the issuing body. Dua was quick to add, however, that he had never heard of any religious group getting its license revoked. He affirmed that HO CHI MIN 00001193 002.2 OF 002 Vietnamese people can carry out normal religious activities without fear of government intervention. Dua encouraged the CIRF to reach out to more religious groups in order to get a broader perspective of religious practice in Vietnam. ¶6. (SBU) Responding to the CIRF's concerns about registration leading to harassment, Dua agreed with CIRF's position that religious groups should not be required to submit lists of the names of adherents. He noted the legal framework only requires three conditions for registration: groups must provide the name of the venue they will worship at, the size of the congregation, and the names of the group's leaders. Any requests beyond those are not authorized under the legal framework and thus not permitted. Dua invited USCIRF to report any abuses in which religious groups in HCMC were required to submit lists of followers to his office. Dua on Land Rights -------------- ¶7. (SBU) Like HCMC People's Council Chairwoman Thao, Dua assured the CIRF that land that was formally "given" to the GVN by religious organizations will be used in a manner consistent with the wishes of the religious group that gave it, while "borrowed" properties would be returned. Dua said the history of Vietnam is colored by its struggle for independence, and that this struggle induced "disorders" in land and property rights. Dua said these "disorders" are not limited to religious organizations, but affect many individuals and groups in Vietnam. Dua said Ho Chi Minh City has implemented new policies aimed at stabilizing land usage and the People's Committee is considering the land needs of HCMC's religious organizations. Dua acknowledged the GVN still needs to figure out a way to return the land to avoid future "disorders." Comment: Not Quite Seeing the Light -------------- ¶8. (SBU) The CIRF's line of questioning pointed out the dual-sided nature of the legal framework on religion in Vietnam. Many religious leaders here laud the new freedoms their congregations now enjoy and are cautiously optimistic about further reforms. But several pastors have noted the law's limitations by comparing the GVN to "a parent giving a child one piece of candy at a time." Dua's defense of the legal framework on religion as a means to protect Vietnam's citizens from "dishonest people" has also been voiced by other GVN officials, including the head of Protestant affairs for Southern branch of the National Committee on Religious Affairs (CRA). While the GVN is making concrete progress on improving religious freedom conditions in practice, the GVN's skeptical attitude towards religious groups--as well as other civil society organizations--will take longer to evolve. ¶9. (U) This cable was coordinated with Embassy Hanoi. FAIRFAX