USCIRF MEETING WITH PRIME MINISTER NGUYEN TAN DZUNG

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 HANOI 001848 SIPDIS SENSITIVE SIPDIS STATE FOR EAP/MLS, DRL/IRF, DRL/AWH E.O. 12958: N/A TAGS: PGOV PREL KIRF VM SUBJECT: USCIRF MEETING WITH PRIME MINISTER NGUYEN TAN DZUNG HANOI 00001848 001.2 OF 002 Summary -------------- ¶1. (SBU) On October 23, five commissioners from the United States Commission on Religious Freedom (USCIRF) discussed human rights and Vietnam's prisoners of concern with Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dzung. USCIRF members said that Vietnam will not enjoy full religious freedom until its citizens can freely speak their minds, stating that many international non-governmental entities and foreign governments share USCIRF's concerns about the recent crackdown on political dissent. The PM responded that the Vietnamese Constitution guarantees freedom of political and religious expression and that Vietnamese citizens in prison are there because they "violated Vietnamese laws." USCIRF members reminded the PM that Vietnam had signed on to several international covenants, such as the UN Declaration on Human Rights, and that keeping these individuals in prison for peacefully expressing their political views violates international norms. International law is a good reference point for the GVN, but every government has the right to make its own laws based on its own social, political, economic and cultural conditions, the PM responded. After pointing to the positive direction the U.S.-Vietnam relationship is heading, the PM said he wondered how the United States could "lecture Vietnam" on human rights given the use by the U.S. of Agent Orange and the legacy of 2.1 million Vietnamese war dead. He strongly and repeatedly urged the USG not to impose its values on Vietnam, but said the GVN remains open to discussing its differences with the USG. End Summary. ¶2. (SBU) On October 23, five commissioners from the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) held discussions on religious freedom and human rights with Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dzung. USCIRF Chairman Michael Cromartie noted President Bush's statement during Vietnamese President Nguyen Minh Triet's visit to the White House that the Government of Vietnam (GVN) must do more on human rights if it is to enjoy deeper relations with the United States. The ability to freely speak one's mind and practice one's religion is a fundamental right of all humans, Cromartie said. The GVN has made progress on religious freedom, but its crackdown on political dissent concerns not only the USCIRF but other non-government entities and foreign governments as well. Furthermore, imprisoning those who merely call for political change goes against international legal norms that the GVN has signed on to, he said. ¶3. (SBU) PM Dzung responded by noting the positive direction in which US-Vietnam relations are heading and that the Vietnamese people want even stronger ties with the American people. He acknowledged that differences on human rights remain, but that it "is important to continue to discuss these differences in an open and frank manner." The PM said Vietnam has its own laws and traditions and the GVN does not arrest or imprison its citizens because of their religious or political beliefs. The right to political and religious expression is enshrined in the Vietnamese Constitution, he added. However, if Vietnamese citizens form, or try to form, organizations that seek to incite people and harm the State, they are breaking Vietnamese law and will be punished. ¶4. (SBU) USCIRF Commissioner Felice Gaer followed up by appealing for the GVN, in keeping with its international obligations, to release Le Thi Cong Nhan, Nguyen Van Dai, Father Nguyen Van Ly and any other prisoner of conscience. The PM responded that the GVN is not "afraid of these individuals" but that they are in jail simply because they broke Vietnamese law. International law is a "good reference point" for the GVN, but Vietnam is a sovereign nation with its own laws. "I fully understand the UN Declaration on Human Rights, and we always are working to advance human rights in our country," the PM said. However, the U.S. and other countries do not have the right to impose their values on Vietnam, he asserted. ¶6. (SBU) The PM reiterated that Vietnam wants to move forward in its relations with the United States. However, the USCIRF delegation was "fixated on human rights" and did not, in his view, have a good understanding of Vietnam's history and traditions. Becoming heated, he pointed to the Agent Orange (AO) issue, saying the GVN and Vietnamese people view it as a human rights issue and citing statistics on the number of people killed during the war as well as people affected by AO. He asked if the USCIRF was taking the AO issue into consideration and whether the United States felt guilt about the number of people affected by AO. "How can the U.S. respect itself on human rights given what it did during the war?" he asked. ¶7. (SBU) USCIRF Commissioner Dr. Donald Argue replied that the war was indeed tragic, but it is "a new day" in the Vietnam-U.S. relationship, "so let us move forward." The U.S. does not consider itself perfect, but is deeply committed to freedom of conscience and HANOI 00001848 002.2 OF 002 religion. ¶8. (SBU) USCIRF Commissioner Preeta Bansal commended the GVN for having the foresight in recognizing Protestant groups as separate entities. She asked if, in that same vein, the GVN would be willing to recognize Buddhist sects or groups, such as the United Buddhist Church of Vietnam (UBCV),that want to remain outside the umbrella of the GVN-sanctioned Vietnam Buddhist Sangha (VBS). She also asked if the PM would be willing to meet UBCV leaders. The PM replied that, as the GVN's top leader, he is ready to meet any religious dignitary who wants to meet. He reminded the USCIRF delegation that, last year, he met Pope Benedict in Rome and that he holds regular discussions with Vietnam-based religious leaders. However, the PM said that he only talks to religious figures who have followed "the requirements of Vietnamese law" (Note: UBCV leaders such as Thich Quang Do have consistently called for the end of one-party rule. End Note). ¶9. (SBU) The PM asserted that, since the majority of UBCV members "voluntarily" decided to join the VBS years ago, those who continue to want a separate UBCV entity should "listen to the majority" who do not want this. Commissioner Bansal explained that freedom of belief is "an individual decision," so if only a few people want to have their own separate religious organization, they should be allowed to do so. This right is enshrined in international law, she added. The GVN could send a strong signal about its dedication to protecting religious freedom by inviting various Buddhist and Hoa Hao leaders and followers to the VBS-sponsored international "Ve Sak" (full moon) festival scheduled for next year in Vietnam, she said. She reminded the PM that GVN treatment of the UBCV and various Hoa Hao sects is an "important benchmark" in USCIRF's assessment of religious freedom conditions in the country. ¶10. (SBU) The PM said that the various sects must obey Vietnamese, not U.S., laws. He reiterated that Vietnam is a sovereign nation with its own laws which represent the will of its 84 million people and will not be dictated to by the United States. "You must respect our views and perspectives," he said. Bansal emphasized that she was referring not to U.S. laws but rather international laws that Vietnam had signed on to. ¶11. (SBU) The PM asked that the USCIRF avoid "manipulated information." He said USCIRF members are always welcome to come to Vietnam to talk to a variety of people about the religious and human rights situation here. To continue the dialogue on human rights and religious freedom, the PM urged the USCIRF to come again next year. ¶12. (U) This cable was cleared with USCIRF Chairman Cromartie. Michalak