DAS DANIN/DASD KIMMITT DISCUSS BORDER SECURITY

S E C R E T CAIRO 003262

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 11/13/2017
TAGS: PREL PTER KPAL EG IS
SUBJECT: DAS DANIN/DASD KIMMITT DISCUSS BORDER SECURITY
WITH DEFENSE MINISTER TANTAWI

Classified By: Ambassador Francis J. Ricciardone for reasons
1.4(b) and (d).

Summary
--------------


1. (S) NEA DAS Robert Danin and DASD Mark Kimmitt discussed
enhancing both Egypt's counter smuggling efforts and
Egyptian-Israeli border security cooperation with Minister of
Defense Field Marshal Tantawi on November 8. Tantawi said he
would be open to trilateral discussions on border security
with the U.S. and Israel, but not at a "high-level" or with
MFO. Tantawi also repeated his long-standing request that
Israel agree to permit Egypt to dedicate another "regiment"
of Border Guard Forces (BGF) to securing the Egypt-Gaza
border, said he looks forward to the visit of U.S. technical
tunnel detection experts, and said procuring border security
equipment will be a priority. Tantawi pressed for temporary
openings of the Rafah border crossing to allow Palestinians
to exit for humanitarian reasons and warned that the
Palestinians may react against Egypt if pressure in Gaza is
not relieved. "The only way to stop them from entering would
be to shoot them, and we cannot shoot them." Reacting
emotionally to the U.S. presentation of the Rafah-Gaza
smuggling issue, Tantawi also cautioned that "not all aspects
of U.S.-Egyptian relations should be channeled through
Israel." End summary.

Enhancing Egyptian-Israeli communication
--------------


2. (S) NEA DAS Robert Danin and DASD Mark Kimmitt discussed
ways to improve Egypt-Gaza border security with Minister of
Defense Tantawi on November 8. Assistant Minister for Policy
MG Al Assar, Assistant Minister for Armament MG Fouad Abdel
Halim, and Director of Military Intelligence MG Murad Mowafy
joined Tantawi for the meeting. The Ambassador and OMC Chief
also participated. Danin noted that the issue of smuggling
under the Gaza-Egypt border was having an adverse effect on
Egyptian-U.S. relations, and Egyptian-Israeli relations.
Danin told Tantawi that the Israelis were worried about
smuggling and apparent GOE facilitation of Iranian-trained
Hamas supporters back into Gaza, and urged Egypt to be more
vigilant. Danin said, and Kimmitt emphasized, that he told
Israeli officials that the paper they distributed in
Washington on Egypt's counter-smuggling effort was not
helpful and said the Israelis admitted they had erred in
doing so. Danin said he had the sense that the Israelis were
embarassed about the paper and believed they needed to "quiet
down." If the Israelis have concerns, Tantawi said, they can
discuss them with us at any time.


3. (S) Danin asked Tantawi if he would find it useful to
discuss border security and related issues with the Israelis
and the U.S. together. Tantawi said such discussions could
be useful but stressed that they should not be on a "high
level" or through MFO. (Note: MG Al Assar, MG Fouad, and MG
Murad Mowafy subsequently told Danin and Kimmitt that
trilateral discussions could expand on the existing military
intelligence Egyptian-Israeli liaison channel (through
Egypt's Liaison Agency with International Organizations
(LAWIO)),but agreed to consider alternate proposals. They
offered to host Israeli officials in Cairo for the
discussions. End note.)

Enhancing counter-smuggling efforts
--------------


4. (S) BGF: Danin urged Tantawi to increase the strength of
the BGF, as permitted under the 2005 Egyptian-Israeli
agreement governing the BGF deployment. Tantawi said "let us
have another regiment." When Danin explained that Israeli
officials believe the Knesset would not agree to amend the
2005 agreement, Tantawi responded that Olmert had told him
personally two months earlier that he would seek permission
for an additional regiment but did not follow through.
Kimmitt asked Tantawi to consider a temporary deployment of
additional troops, which would be staged at the edge of Zone
B and moved into and out of Zone C on a daily basis. This
step could demonstrate the impact of more troops on
smuggling, Kimmitt said. Tantawi said "we will see." (Note:
MG Al Assar later expressed some frustration over the
proposal for a temporary deployment of BGF. On November 13,
MG Al Assar told emboff that Egypt seeks Israeli consent to
dedicate a second regiment to securing the border with Gaza
and will not consider alternate formulas for increasing the

number of BGF on duty. End note).


5. (S) Equipment: Tantawi said Egypt had asked the Israelis
"last week" for catalogs of tunnel detection equipment,
noting that he had made procuring border security equipment a
priority. Tantawi also welcomed the upcoming visit of U.S.
tunnel detection experts (Note: A USACE-led team of tunnel
detection and exploitation experts is scheduled to visit
Egypt's border with Gaza on November 15. End note). MG
Fouad explained that under a five-year procurement plan
beginning in FY08, Egypt had committed to investing USD 165
million in border security equipment, such as motorcycles
with electro-optical devices, seismic detection equipment,
helicopters with night vision devices, and patrol boats. MG
Fouad promised to pass MoD's prioritized list of intended
border security equipment purchases to Danin and Kimmitt.


6. (S) Other measures: When Danin asked if the Egyptians
would consider participating in a Near East South Asia (NESA)
Center-sponsored seminar on border security, Al Assar said
MoD would only consider this proposal if Egypt is the sole
participant.


7. (S) Kimmitt noted that Egyptian-Israeli intelligence
exchanges with Egypt's military intelligence were good, but
that there was no exchange with Ministry of Interior (MOI).
Kimmitt also asked whether Egypt pursues all intel tips the
Israelis provide. MG Mowafy said he speaks frequently via a
hotline to his Israeli counterpart, and shares all
information on smugglers. Mowafy did not comment on whether
Egyptian-Israeli Ministry of Interior liaison exists. (Note:
LAWIO Chief MG Nagy Kamal told Danin and Kimmitt on November
7 during a tour of the "Philadelphi Strip" that there is
currently no effective MOI liaison channel. End note).
Kimmitt stressed that the coming month (before Congress acts
on a proposal to condition a portion of FMF) is the critical
opportunity to take all possible measures to combat
smuggling. He suggested that MoD consider alternate ideas
such as the use of "tunnel rats" and tear gas to increase
effectiveness. Arresting key smugglers would also
demonstrate Egypt's political commitment to addressing this
problem, Kimmitt said.

Relieving the Pressure on Palestinians in Gaza
-------------- -


8. (S) MG Mowafy said Egypt is worried that the "3,000"
Palestinians in Gaza who want to enter Egypt will try to
cross the border forcibly and that the BGF will not be able
to stop them. Tantawi said Egypt had asked the Israelis to
let Palestinians transit to enter Egypt (to attend school,
receive medical care or go on Hajj) and suggested opening
Rafah for limited periods of time with EU BAM monitors
facilitating on the Palestinian side. Danin said that both
PA and Israeli officials prefer to keep Rafah closed, but
emphasized that efforts continue to prevent a humanitarian
crisis in Gaza. Calling the Palestinian position on opening
Rafah "very strange," Tantawi said Egypt could manage the
opening and that without relieving pressure, there may be an
explosive reaction against Egypt, not Israel. Tantawi said:
"What if I find 10,000 Palestinians on the border, including
children and the sick in wheelchairs? Will I order my forces
to kill them? Terrorists may cross with the ordinary people,
so I must order the BGF to shoot. That is the only way to
stop them if they break through. But I cannot do this."
Without a Palestinian Authority partner on the Gaza side,
opening the border would be difficult, Danin responded, and
suggested exploring other mechanisms. Tantawi pressed again
(repeatedly) for a temporary opening at Rafah.

U.S.-Egyptian Relations
--------------


9. (S) Danin told Tantawi that the U.S. values its strategic
relationship with Egypt and sees the peace between Egypt and
Israel as fundamental. He told Tantawi that Egypt has many
friends in Congress, but that there is a feeling in
Washington that Egypt could do more to combat smuggling.
Tantawi said the American people are among the nicest in the
world, but expressed frustration that some in Congress saw
the Egyptian-Israeli relationship as the cornerstone of
U.S.-Egyptian relations. Tantawi cautioned that not all
aspects of U.S.-Egyptian relations should be channeled
through Israel. "This is unfair," Tantawi asserted; "not
everything (Israel) says is true. When the Israelis talk to
us, they say we are doing a good job." Danin noted that this

disconnect may be all the more reason for enhanced
coordination mechanisms.


10. (U) DAS Danin and DASD Kimmitt cleared this cable.
RICCIARDONE