NSA HADLEY'S MEETING WITH GERMAN INTERIOR MINISTER

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 BERLIN 000457 SIPDIS SIPDIS E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/05/2017 TAGS: PGOV PREL PTER KJUS AF LE IZ SR RS GM SUBJECT: NSA HADLEY'S MEETING WITH GERMAN INTERIOR MINISTER SCHAEUBLE Classified By: Minister-Counselor for Economic Affairs Robert F. Cekuta for Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d) ¶1. (C) Summary. Interior Minister Schaeuble told National Security Advisor Hadley February 23 Germany and the U.S. need to share information to combat terrorism, but the European Parliament is concerned about civil liberties. Schaeuble sought U.S. agreement for a U.S.-EU-Russia trilateral meeting separate from the May G-8 Justice and Home Affairs Ministerial. The National Security Advisor Hadley also stressed the need for data sharing to combat terrorism and noted the President's proposal to modernize the Visa Waiver Program (VWP). NSA Hadley emphasized the need for confidence that Iran was not resupplying forces in Lebanon via Syria. Schaeuble responded the objective was not possible without Syrian agreement. (Note: MOI staff separately briefed NSA Hadley's delegation on the upcoming Passenger Name Records (PNR) negotiations and Ministry's efforts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, and Lebanon. End Note.) End Summary. -------------- DATA SHARING -------------- ¶2. (C) German Interior Minister Schaeuble told NSA Hadley Germany wants to achieve results during its EU Presidency and hoped for progress in the PNR negotiations and on data protection agreements. However, the EU Parliament, concerned about civil liberties, needs to approve the agreements. They feel strongly about data protection. He emphasized that Europe needs a PNR agreement. The terrorist threat is not over, Schaeuble continued; the U.S. and Germany had cooperated well last August in connection with the British threat on the prohibition on liquids in aircraft and the two sides need to share information. The threat to civil aviation is not over. NSA Hadley agreed on the need for information sharing and highlighted the President's proposal to enhance the security requirements of the VWP. In this way the door could be opened to all EU member states, NSA Hadley said however, the U.S. would not ask EU states to comply with security requirements that the U.S. was not prepared to meet. Threats are global and we need to eliminate barriers to cooperation, NSA Hadley stated. -------------- LEBANON -------------- ¶3. (C) Turning to Lebanon, NSA Hadley said we all need to have confidence that Iran was not rearming forces in Lebanon through Syria. In the past there was a UNSC resolution (1559) which was not enforced, a situation which had led to war. Now there is a new UNSC resolution and again it is not being enforced. If the international community did not find a way to stop Iranian efforts to resupply, Israel would find a way, NSA Hadley said, and there could be another war. Schaeuble responded that the task is impossible without the agreement of Syria and that EU High Rep Solana needed to be brought into the discussion. Schaeuble and NSA Hadley agreed there had been "too many voices" speaking to Syria; NSA Hadley agreed Solana should be the "quarterback" for the EU. -------------- U.S.-EU-RUSSIA TRILATERAL -------------- ¶4. (C) Schaeuble said that he desires a U.S.-EU-Russia trilateral and that he knew the U.S. prefers a meeting of interior and justice ministers on the margins of the May G-8 ministerial. Schaeuble argued that for the meeting to have impact it needs to stand on its own. NSA Hadley said cooperation with Russia is important even though it is sometimes difficult as recent events had shown. He said he would discuss the issue with DHS Secretary Chertoff and Attorney General Gonzales. -------------- -------------- SIDEBAR TOPICS: PNR, Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Lebanon -------------- -------------- ¶5. (C) German delegation members briefed NSC Senior Director BERLIN 00000457 002 OF 003 for European Affairs Judy Ansley and other NSC members on the following: -- On PNR, German lead negotiator Deputy DG for Police Affairs Hans-Juergen Foerster reported the EU had agreed to his mandate only the day before (January 22); it included "strict directives" and "caveats and reservations" from the 26 other EU member states. State Secretary August Hanning said there is a huge gap between the two sides; negotiations would be "very difficult." Ansley pointed out the two sides have the same goals but different systems; if we did not share information, we could not achieve our goals. She added that the U.S. has legal requirements to collect this data. Hanning responded the EU Parliament is very dedicated to data protection; each side had to accept the other's system. The best solution would be to extend the existing agreement, Hanning elaborated, because both sides wanted to amend the agreement but in different directions. Ansley said DHS views the current agreement as very limiting and not acceptable for the long-term. -- On Iraq, Hanning and Office Director for International Police Cooperation and Training Juergen Werner explained German engagement bilaterally and via the EU JUSTLEX training program. On the former, Hanning referred to his January 22 meeting with visiting Iraqi Foreign Minister Zebari. Zebari seeks German police training in northern Iraq, which Germany accepted in principle during earlier conversations with the Iraqi Deputy PM however, Germany is only prepared to proceed upon agreement of all parties. Werner claimed the Iraqi Interior Ministry, dominated by the Shia, requests training only in Europe -- not in Iraq, and not even in the UAE where Germany has conducted training in the past. On the multilateral training, Werner said the German Federal Office of Criminal Investigation (BKA) is currently training 40 Iraqi police officers in Wiesbaden. The EU had trained 900 Iraqi justice and law enforcement officers in the last two years, Werner said, but Hanning added it is difficult to determine where they have gone and what their jobs now are. Germany needs feedback on its previous training, Hanning said. -- On Afghanistan, Werner described the ESDP Afghan training program to begin in June, which Germany seeks to lead. Germany now had 40 staff in Afghanistan, but Germany hoped the ESDP number would be 160 plus 80 support and advisory staff. In response to Ansley's question, Werner clarified the ESDP mission would do more than regroup the current disparate EU member state initiatives in Afghanistan, it would add significant new manpower and include other countries, including non-EU member states like Canada, New Zealand and Norway, under one chain of command. Germany would send 30 more officers, including some from its military police who would be under civilian police command. Beginning in PRTs led by EU member states, the program would expand to U.S.-led PRTs. Hanning emphasized the goal is to reach the entire country, but there are problems cooperating with the judicial system: "we catch people then we are not sure what to do with them." -- On Kosovo, Deputy DG for Police Deployments/Border Issues and Inspector of the Federal Police Udo Burkholder said Germany has 200 police officers stationed there, where the EU was taking over responsibility from the UN. Ansley commented that during the transition process, there might be a need for more police, a subject the U.S. wants to discuss with the EU. Burkholder said there are many German police who volunteer to go to Kosovo and so Germany could send more. -- On Lebanon, Burkholder said the German team of five Federal (former border) Police and three Customs officers had assessed Lebanese efforts and completed their report, which Germany was prepared to share with the U.S. although it had not yet shared it with its EU partners. The report proposes "Integrated Border Management" because currently various Lebanese agencies have responsibility, leading to different authorities "doing their own thing." Lebanese military and civilian agencies are not working together, Burkholder said. The German proposal is one agency or one "point of responsibility," and a plan of how to set up, manage, and equip such an integrated border protection agency. Hanning mentioned in early March he would travel to Lebanon where he BERLIN 00000457 003 OF 003 would push for a border pilot project on Lebanon's northern border with Syria. Hanning added that as far as he was aware, the German naval mission had performed well and there were no reports of weapons smuggling by sea. But the land border was harder to protect. ¶10. (U) NSC staff cleared this cable subsequent to the delegation's departure. KOENIG