May 3 EU-U.S. JHA Ministerial Troika

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STATE FOR CA, EUR/ERA, EUR/PGI AND EUR/AGS

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SUBJECT: May 3 EU-U.S. JHA Ministerial Troika


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THIS MESSAGE IS SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED.


1. Summary. The U.S. - EU JHA Ministerial Troika was held
in Vienna May 3 with the U.S. delegation led by Attorney
General Alberto Gonzales, accompanied by DHS Deputy
Secretary Michael Jackson. The EU delegation was headed by

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Austrian Minister of the Interior Prokop, Justice Minister
Gastinger and EU Commissioner Frattini. The participants
stressed the importance of jointly addressing common
problems such as terrorism, organized crime, border and
document security, and pledged to expand cooperation and
data exchange in many of these areas. With regard to the
Visa Waiver Program (VWP) the EU urged the establishment of
a joint U.S.-EU timeline, but DHS Deputy Secretary Jackson
rejected any firm timeline for VWP expansion. Both sides
did agree to exchange technical and other information on the
issue during the May 16 visit of Commission officials to
Washington related to the publication of a July 1 Commission
report. On the U.S.-EU MLAT, the Austrian Presidency
pledged to keep the pressure on the 4 member states that
have yet to sign the bilateral protocol with the U.S. Both
sides expressed frustration over the issue of data
protection which was hindering the negotiation of a U.S.
cooperation agreement with EUROJUST and likely to provoke an
extended debate in the European Parliament. The Attorney
General underlined the commitment of the U.S. to the rule of
law in fighting terrorism and said he looked forward to the
continuation of the dialogue on this issue. The May 3
meeting was followed by a May 4 multi presidency meeting
with the U.S. and Russia and a May 4-5 EU Internal Security
Ministerial (reported separately). End Summary

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Agenda Item One - Visa Reciprocity
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2. (SBU) Commissioner Frattini opened the Ministerial
Troika by welcoming President Bush's commitment to pursue
extension of the visa waiver program (VWP) by means of the
roadmap process. He noted the Council's February
conclusions that directed the Commission to submit a follow-
up report on visa reciprocity by July 1. [Note: Because of
translation requirements, the text of the report will be
finalized shortly after Jonathan Faull's May 16 visit to
Washington. End note.] Commissioner Frattini stressed the
need for the roadmap process to show tangible results. "To
keep it credible, we need results," he said, calling fr "a
real, concrete timeframe." He posed three questions in
concluding his remarks: 1) How does he USG see the way
forward? 2) What are the concete results of the roadmap
process? 3) Could theUSG consider visa facilitation
(streamlined applcation procedures, reduction of fees,
etc.) as a ransitional option?


3. (SBU) DHS Deputy Secretay Jackson reaffirmed President
Bush's commitmentto engage in a deliberative, good faith
effort wth each of the roadmap countries. He noted the
arallels with internal EU efforts and said the U.S.would
like to "synchronize" efforts with th Schengen evaluation
process. He welcomed a multilateral approach while
stressing the congressional mandate to evaluate each country
individually in accord with statutorily established
criteria.


4. (SBU) Interior Minister Prokop noted the U.S. and EU were
taking steps in parallel and said the Schengen expansion
could dovetail with VWP expansion and suggested a common
timeframe. She noted that important security upgrades --
the Visa Information System (VIS),Schengen Information
System upgrade (SIS2) and biometrics passports - would
enhance border controls in the roadmap countries.
Commissioner Frattini specified the following timelines: by
August 2006, biometrics passports for all Member States; by
Spring 2007, VIS/SIS2 online; by October 2007, all new
Member States fully incorporated into Schengen. DHS Deputy
Secretary Jackson rejected any firm timeline for VWP

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expansion.


5. (SBU) Commissioner Frattini proposed a technical level
working group on the margins of the Commission's May 16
visit to Washington in order to obtain a "clearer and deeper
exchange of concrete information on a state-by-state basis."
The EU would provide information on the Schengen evaluation
process with respect to the non-visa waiver countries and
the U.S. would provide information on the roadmap process,
both as they relate to enhancing security. DHS Deputy
Secretary Jackson said he was willing to assist Commissioner

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Frattini as the Commission drafted a follow-up report to the

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Council. DHS Deputy Secretary Jackson agreed to
Commissioner Frattini's proposal for a technical working
group.

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Agenda Item Two - Document Security
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6. (SBU) Biometric passports: Interior Minister Prokop said
the EU would allow legitimate authorities at ports of entry
to access the biometric chips of new e-passports, which
would be protected by "basic access control". She stressed
that testing with readers was important to ensure
interoperability and noted the upcoming conference on May 31
in Berlin, co-sponsored by Germany and the Commission, for
that purpose. Interior Minister Prokop said that the EU,
U.S., Canada and Australia would be invited. DHS Deputy
Secretary Jackson welcomed the technical meeting in Berlin,

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stressing the importance of interoperability. He extended
an invitation for the EU to observe live tests with
biometric documents from VWP countries seeking certification
from DHS.


7. (SBU) Interior Minister Prokop also noted the EU was in
the process of finalizing the technical standards for
incorporating fingerprints into national passports. She
said that EU Member States would be required to begin
issuing passports with dual biometrics (digital photograph
and finger scans) by June 2009. The regulation on technical
standards would also allow for the possibility of
transferring data to third countries. [Note. In a separate
meeting on May 4 with the Austrian official responsible for
e-passports, Heinrich Pawlicek told Embassy Vienna and USEU
that only two finger scans would be collected for passport
applications and they would be protected by "extended access
control". Fingerprints would be used for one-to-one checks
only at the European level as a measure to enhance document
security. EU Member States, however, would have the freedom
to run the fingerprints against criminal databases at a
national level as part of the issuance process. End note.]


8. (SBU) Lost/Stolen Passports: Interior Minister Prokop
reviewed the EU's common position on sharing lost/stolen
passport information with Interpol and said that the EU is
that largest supplier of data. She noted that once SIS2 was
functioning, transfer of data would be facilitated.
Following up on the joint U.S.-EU mission to Interpol in
January, Interior Minister Prokop said that Austria was
prepared to offer a round-the-clock service to answer
inquiries and resolve hits. She asked about the status of
the U.S. pilot to analyze the workload implication for
extending access to the database to end-users at ports of
entry.


9. (SBU) Interior Minister Prokop lamented that only 15 EU
Member States have confirmed they are using the database.
She said that a technical meeting on May 16 (venue
undetermined) would analyze why the Interpol database was
not being better utilized. Participants would also analyze
Switzerland's current method of systematically querying all
data from consulates and ports of entry against the Interpol
database.


10. (SBU) Deputy Secretary Jackson noted DHS's new reporting
requirement on lost/stolen passports for VWP countries and
gave a positive assessment of the joint mission to Lyon. He
said that more information should be provided on lost/stolen
passports and briefly touched upon the potential value of
additional information fields. DHS Deputy Secretary
Jackson urged that lost/stolen passports intercepted by
authorities should be seized. He also called for common
reporting mechanisms.

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Agenda Item Three - Counter-Terrorism
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11. (SBU) Radicalization and Recruitment: Interior
Minister Prokop recalled EU adoption of its Counter-
terrorism strategy in December, which focused on Islamic
fundamentalism and aimed to prevent radicalization and
recruitment and encourage moderate Islamists by all
diplomatic means. She urged ratification of all anti-
terrorist conventions, the adoption of a media strategy and
a common definition of terrorism, as well as a focus on
cyber-crime. She noted the many meetings on these subjects
taking place during the Austrian Presidency.


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12. (SBU) The Attorney General agreed on the need to
encourage moderate Islamists to speak out and called for an
international consensus to combat terrorism. He noted the
necessity to balance free speech and incitement and agreed
on the need to prevent the use of the internet by
terrorists. He urged that the EU and U.S. work together on
the issue of radicalization and recruitment, noting his
concern over Jihadists who come to Iraq and then leave to
spread terrorism elsewhere. He urged the identification of
"best practices" to prevent radicalization, especially in
prisons and schools and suggested that we look at revising
criminal statutes to deal with such things as payments to
the families of bombers, etc.


13. (SBU) Commissioner Frattini noted that the Commission
had established a permanent group on radicalization and
recruitment, which has issued a tender for a study of
violent radicalization. He saw this as an issue ripe for
transatlantic cooperation, especially in the area of threat
analysis and information exchange. He also saw a need for a
clear definition of incitement, especially when the internet
was used to spread terrorist propaganda and bomb-making
instructions. He urged a focus on critical infrastructure
protection where public/private cooperation was absolutely
essential.


14. (SBU) EUCounter-Terrorism Chief DeVries urged that
Eurojust be strengthened to fight against terrorism and te
Finnish representative said that the Finnish Pesidency
would concentrate on internet crime andradicalization and
recruitment. Interior Ministr Prokop urged practical
cooperation between the .S. and EU and Justice Minister
Gastinger again ncouraged the ratification of all
outstanding ani-terrorist conventions.


15. (SBU) Critical Inrastructure protection and
consequence managemen: Interior Minister Prokop described
EU actions n this field, including the creation of a manua
on crisis management with contact points. Commissioner
Frattini called for greater U.S.-EU cooperation in this
field in order to optimize resources and expertise. He
urged the creation of a rapid response mechanism and noted
that the Argus system linked EU emergency systems together
in case of terrorist or health crisis.


16. (SBU) DHS Deputy Secretary Jackson agreed that it was
essential to cooperate in this field, noting that the U.S.
is spending large sums on explosive detection technology and
there were many advantages to joint R & D on such projects.
He said the U.S. has learned some hard lessons regarding
infrastructure protection and had just established a new
directorate to deal with the problem. We were willing to
share our experience with the EU. He agreed on the need to
encourage public/private partnerships, particularly in areas
such as chemical security.


17. (SBU) Counter-Terrorism and Human Rights: Interior
Minister Prokop noted that maintaining western values was
the best way to fight terrorism and expressed her
appreciation that State Department Legal Adviser John
Bellinger was willing to participate in a dialogue on these
issues. Justice Minister Gastinger cited the alleged
difference of approach between the EU and the U.S. in
fighting terrorism as one source of the problem. The U.S.
saw this as a "war, whereas the EU was more concerned with
the rule of law. She said the EU wants to cooperate with the
U.S. on the basis of trust and confidence and be seen as a
reliable partner. She urged that the dialogue continue in
order to forge a common approach to the problem.


18. (SBU) The Attorney General replied that the U. S. is
committed to the rule of law, although we do see the fight
against terrorism in a difference perspective than the EU.
It does involve a military campaign, but we also use laws to
persecute terrorists, when applicable. The EU has its own
laws and instruments, some of which do not exist in the U.S.
He said that he understood the U.S. had much at stake in
promoting human rights and it was important that the U.S.
position be clearly and correctly understood. He therefore
looked forward to continuation of the dialogue.


19. (SBU) EU Counter-Terrorism Chief DeVries noted a
delegation from the European Parliament would soon be
visiting Washington to discuss these issues and hoped that
the dialogue in Washington would be a fruitful one.

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Agenda Item 4 - EU-US MLA and Extradition Agreements

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20. (U) Justice Minister Gastinger noted that it has been
three years since the negotiation of the U.S.-EU MLAT and 21
of 25 bilateral protocols necessary to implement it had been
signed. She urged the Czechs, Italians, Maltese and Poles
to sign as soon as possible and said that the Austrian
Presidency would keep the pressure on EU Member States to
sign and ratify the agreements.


21. (U) The Attorney General thanked the Austrian
Presidency for its efforts and hoped that once all EU Member
States had signed there could be a public event to mark the
occasion. He said the U.S. would await the signature to the
protocols by all EU Member States before submitting the MLAT
to the U.S. Congress for its ratification. He also
indicated that we would have to jointly consider how best to
train our respective practitioners on how to use these
instruments

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Agenda Item 5 - EU-U.S. Operational Cooperation
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22. (SBU) Organized Crime Threat Assessment: Commissioner
Frattini said that the Commission has done an analysis of
organized crime which indicates four categories of threat -
a) indigenous; b) ethnic; c) organized networks; and d)
others such as biker gangs, etc. All were involved in
various aspects of crime, including drug trafficking, fraud,
cyber-crime, money laundering and theft of intellectual
property. EUROPOL Head Ratzel noted that there was no
common EU threat, but distinct regional patterns. He
praised U.S.-EU cooperation.


23. (SBU) The Attorney General indicated his own interest in
this area and pledged to share U.S. threat assessments. He
also expressed a willingness to provide training and other
assistance.


24. (SBU) Operational Cooperation with Europol: Interior
Minister Prokop emphasized that multilateral cooperation
should not interfere with bilateral efforts. EUROPOL head
Ratzel recalled his recent visit to Washington and the
support he received there related to exchange of best
practices and expanded training opportunities, including the
FBI Academy and CEPOL. He noted two areas of concern -
first that the current EUROPOL convention did not allow the
sharing of some analytical data with the U.S. and secondly
the fact that the FBI was unsure of the validity of
confidential exchanges with EUROPOL. He urged EU Member

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States to ratify the relevant EU proposed protocols which
would correct the former situation and said he would attempt
to work out the latter issue with the FBI. Interior
Minister Prokop added that EU Member States are interested
in exchanging data and a way must be found to share and
protect it.


25. (SBU) Negotiation of a Cooperation Agreement with
Eurojust: Justice Minister Gastinger expressed her
frustration at the delay in negotiating a U.S. - EUROJUST
cooperation agreement, noting that the issue of data
protection was a problem which she hoped could be overcome
when U.S.-EUROJUST negotiations began again in mid-May.
EUROJUST Chief Kennedy agreed that the key was how to
balance data protection and the sharing of information. He
expressed EUROJUST's willingness to host a conference of
counter-terrorist prosecutors. Commissioner Frattini urged
that child pornography also constitute an element of U.S.
cooperation with EUROJUST.


26. (SBU) The Attorney General said he welcomed expanded
cooperation on child pornography and asked why the EUROJUST
agreement could not be modeled on the one the U.S. has with
EUROPOL. EUROJUST Chief Kennedy replied that new data
privacy rules had come into effect and the situation was now
completely different.


27. (SBU) Cooperation in Law Enforcement Training:
Commissioner Frattini saw the possibility of CEPOL and FBI
cooperation as very promising and said the EU was very
interested in expanding this. The Attorney General welcomed
an expansion of training.

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Agenda Item 6 - Framework Decision on Data Protection
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28. (SBU) Interior Minister Prokop said this was an
ongoing difficult debate in the European Parliament and
between Member States. Justice Miniter Gastinger agreed,
noting that different Membr States have taken completely
opposing positionon the draft framework proposal. The need
was t find a balance between law enforcement requirements
for data exchanges and protection of the rightsof ciizens
- it may take awhile. Commissioner rattini said there was
a risk that the European arliament may hold the framework
decision hostag to other issues, but he claimed that
existing U..-EU agreements would not be affected, whatever
he outcome.


29. (SBU) The Attorney General welcmed the assurances
provided by Commissioner Frattini, but said he remained
concerned about the effect on current informal arrangements
to exchange information. He hoped this could be resolved by
the experts. DHS Deputy Secretary Jackson agreed and noted
that since 9/11 the U.S. and the EU had found many creative
ways to expand the information flow. He urged that this
creativity not be stifled by a more restrictive
interpretation. The Finnish representative noted that
Finland had hoped to get the draft framework decision
adopted during its Presidency, but it no longer looked as if
this would be possible.

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Agenda Item 7 - International Cooperation Concerning
Pandemic Influenza
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30. (U) DHS Deputy Secretary Jackson described in detail the
just released U.S. implementation plan for the national
strategy for pandemic influenza and stressed the President's
commitment to this issue. Interior Minister Prokop noted
the upcoming June Vienna meeting on this subject and urged
the U.S. to share any relevant information with the Minister
of Health.

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Agenda Item 8 - EU Strategy for the External Dimension of
JHA
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31. (SBU) Interior Minister Prokop noted the effort by the
Austrian President to implement an external JHA strategy,
pointing to the forthcoming May 4-5 Multi-Presidency
Ministerial and the Internal Security Ministerial. She
indicated that the Austrians would introduce action-oriented
papers on the Western Balkans and Afghan drug trafficking.

McCaw