HOLY SEE'S CHINA ENVOY: RECENT TRIP A SUCCESS

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 VATICAN 000185 SIPDIS SIPDIS E.O. 12958: DECL: 9/1/2016 TAGS: PREL PHUM VT CH SUBJECT: HOLY SEE'S CHINA ENVOY: RECENT TRIP A SUCCESS REF: (A) VATICAN 0155 (b) Vatican 057 VATICAN 00000185 001.2 OF 003 CLASSIFIED BY: Christopher Sandrolini, Charge d'affaires a.i., EXEC, State. REASON: 1.4 (d) ¶1. (C) Summary. Archbishop Celli, the Vatican's unofficial envoy to China, told Ambassador his July visit to China had a positive outcome and he hoped for a return visit later this year. Celli does not foresee any change in the overall situation for Catholics in China, but does think talks with the GOC may lead eventually to a tacit agreement. He described the complexities facing the Holy See in its efforts to deal with both the Chinese government and with the Catholic community on the mainland and in Hong Kong. Celli said that while Chinese Catholics are in a cage, the cage is getting bigger. He described the recent illicit ordination of two bishops as retaliation for the elevation of Cardinal Zen, whom China resents. Celli encouraged US pressure on China in the area of religious freedom, but caution regarding the Holy See-China relationship. End summary. -------------- Positive Outcome -------------- ¶2. (C) Ambassador and DCM called on Archbishop Claudio Maria Celli on September 1 to discuss Celli's recent visit to China. Celli said that his July visit to China was positive on the whole, especially in three areas: -- Beijing had opened the doors to a serious Holy See delegation for the first time since 2000. (Celli acknowledged that there had been other visits to China by Holy See figures, but did not consider them to be of the same level of importance.) -- He had been allowed (at his request) to visit Shandong province, including the cities of Qingdao, Jinan, and Qufu, birthplace of Confucius (Celli commented that while foreign religions such as Christianity are seen as threats, the authorities are now endorsing Confucianism and Buddhism). While it was not a completely free visit, said Celli, his escorts had a light touch. The visit was confidential, which precluded visits to churches or bishops. However, there was one unscheduled stop at an empty cathedral. -- Celli is cautiously optimistic that he will be invited for another visit to China before the end of this year, and hopes to visit another province at that time. ¶3. (C) In the following discussion, Celli observed that the atmosphere of his visit was cordial throughout, lacking any calculated toughness from Chinese officials. (Celli had talks, inter alia, with the Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs and with the Director of the Religious Affairs Bureau.) Nevertheless the situation is not easy, and it will certainly take time to resolve the critical ecclesiastical issue -- the question of who decides what bishops and priests can do, or as Celli put it, "the vision of church life". -------------- The Cage is Getting Bigger -------------- ¶4. (C) Celli foresees no short-term change in the situation in China for Catholics. Using a familiar metaphor (ref b),said that Catholics in China remain in a cage, but we can see a gradual increase in the size of the cage. China is simply not in a position to grant the kinds of liberty the Holy See seeks, but things are slowly improving. For its part, the Holy See must, and will, continue to press China further. Celli stressed that China is genuinely worried about losing control. He suggested that a tacit agreement might be reached in time between China and the Holy See, though nothing may be openly acknowledged. ¶5. (C) Celli said that while economic development had produced astonishing results in China, the majority continues to live not merely in poverty, but in misery. Privately, Chinese officials can be remarkably candid about this, and Celli believes the GOC understands the true state of affairs, but cannot yet escape its own ideological boundaries -- even though few believe in communism anymore. (One senior official, who was able to converse with Celli in French, was strikingly different when speaking in that language and when speaking in Chinese in the VATICAN 00000185 002.2 OF 003 presence of other officials.) -------------- Zen As Provocation -------------- ¶6. (C) China dislikes Cardinal Zen, and its illicit ordination of two bishops earlier this year was a clear act of retaliation for Zen's elevation to cardinal. Hardliners in the government -- intending to derail Rome-Beijing rapprochement -- probably engineered the ordinations without informing their superiors, who might well have blocked them but who subsequently had to go along to save face. Hardliners exist on both sides; some in the Chinese underground church bitterly oppose any talks with the government. This "underground Taliban" even encouraged detained clerics to stay in detention and become martyrs. ¶7. (C) Celli noted that when word leaked out from Hong Kong about his visit, and journalists began to inquire, the Chinese authorities simply denied knowledge. The Holy See, more ethically constrained, felt obliged to say simply "no comment". Celli said that members of the Hong Kong Catholic community were "talking too much". -------------- Release of Bishop An -------------- ¶8. (C) Celli said the Holy See had learned that Bishop Francis An Shuxin of Baoding, who was recently released after many years of secret detention, had in fact been in informal and relatively loose confinement in a residence for at least the past two years, during which time he had been granted visits by priests. The Holy See had earlier heard rumors about Bishop An's whereabouts and safety, but could never be sure of their accuracy. Similarly, there are rumors about other clergymen still in unacknowledged detention, but the actual status of the detained is not known. Celli said that conditions for detained clerics are not necessarily harsh, but the detentions are wrong -- especially when, as sometimes happens, elderly men are held away from home and familiar medical care. -------------- -------------- US Role -- Push, But Recognize Limits -------------- -------------- ¶9. (C) Celli acknowledged the firm support of President Bush and the United States for religious freedom in China, and feels this is very helpful. However, any specific mention of China-Holy See relations serves primarily as an irritant, since the Chinese regard this as interference in their internal affairs. In short, said Celli, please push, but at the same time be conscious of China's limits; don't look for pears on an apple tree. ¶10. (C) Celli said he had met Bishop Hu of Beijing. The two were accompanied by three very attentive escorts who took copious notes. This seemed unnecessary, said Celli, since everything Hu said was essentially identical to the government line. Hu may have had little choice; the larger point for Celli is that while the Catholic identity of older Chinese clerics can be taken for granted, that of younger Chinese priests is questionable, as the degree of their spiritual formation cannot be known. -------------- Bio Note -------------- ¶11. (SBU) Celli opened by noting his upcoming trip to the United States, where he will visit Washington DC, Philadelphia, Memphis, and Fairfield CT among other stops -- meeting old friends like Cardinals McCarrick and Rigali, and George Weigel, and leading a retreat. The retreat will be for a group called Centesimus Annus (the title of a 1991 encyclical of Pope John Paul II, commemorating the centennial of Pope Leo XIII's influential encyclical Rerum Novarum) which is dedicated to the study and promotion of Catholic social teaching. Celli, in offering to give the embassy some documents related to an earlier meeting this summer which discussed world financial problems, commented that Cardinal Bertone, in his recent remarks on international financial institutions and usurious practices, was perhaps speaking a bit too much off the cuff. -------------- VATICAN 00000185 003.2 OF 003 Comment -------------- ¶12. (C) We once again found Celli an acute interlocutor. His overall assessment of conditions for Chinese Catholics is hardly rosy, but his confidence in Beijing's openness to dialogue is encouraging. Celli's optimism stands in contrast to the downbeat views of the foreign minister, with whom we spoke shortly after the visit (ref a). We will be alert for any signs of a return visit later this year. ¶13. (C) Celli's comments about the overly talkative Hong Kong community may refer to Cardinal Zen himself, who spoke openly about the July visit at the time, and is known for his direct manner and independence. Celli effectively conveyed the complexity of the Holy See's relationship with China: the machinations of hardliners on both sides, bureacratic maneuverings and face-saving compulsions, secret meetings made embarrassingly public by one's own side, officials who say one thing in private and something completely different in public, etc. ¶14. (C) Celli's remarks about the US role echo what we've heard from the Foreign Ministry, and dovetail with the Holy See's own dilemma in pushing the Chinese to grant more freedoms while acknowledging that a fearful Chinese leadership may itself not be able to grant such freedoms for now. In speaking about the release of Bishop An, Celli did not seem to attach special significance to it. ROONEY