HOLY SEE: USCIRF'S BISHOP RAMIREZ DISCUSSES RELIGIOUS

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 VATICAN 000156 SIPDIS SIPDIS E.O. 12958: DECL: 7/31/2016 TAGS: PREL PHUM KIRF VT SUBJECT: HOLY SEE: USCIRF'S BISHOP RAMIREZ DISCUSSES RELIGIOUS FREEDOM WITH FOREIGN MINISTER VATICAN 00000156 001.2 OF 002 CLASSIFIED BY: Christopher Sandrolini, Charge d'affaires a.i., EXEC, State. REASON: 1.4 (d) Summary -------------- ¶1. (C) Visiting Bishop Ramirez of the USCIRF discussed religious freedom and human rights around the globe with Holy See foreign minister Lajolo and the desk officer for that issue. Saudi Arabia and North Korea are the top concerns for the Holy See with regard to religious freedom, with China and secular/relativist Western Europe also prominently mentioned. More briefly, the discussion also covered Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, Egypt, Southeast Asia, the Muslim world, Turkey, and Israel. End summary. Discussion with Lajolo on Saudi Arabia, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, China -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- ¶2. (SBU) During his visit to Rome on July 12, Bishop Ricardo Ramirez of the US Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) met Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo, the Holy See's Secretary for Relations with States (foreign minister SIPDIS equivalent). Ramirez was accompanied by charge d'affaires and by Dr. Scott Flipse, an adviser to USCIRF; present with Lajolo was Monsignor Ettore Balestrero. Bishop Ramirez described the CIRF and the purpose of his trip (to attend a conference on human rights in North Korea, and discuss religious freedom issues with the Holy See). He asked Lajolo to describe the Holy See's concerns in this regard. ¶3. (C) Lajolo said Saudi Arabia is the top concern of the Holy See with regard to religious freedom. With 8 million Christians, of whom 1.2 million are Catholics, people are nevertheless prohibited from praying even in private, and are jailed for violations. Lajolo also cited Laos, Vietnam, and all Muslim countries as areas where religious freedom tends to be constrained. He described the current situation in China (where the Holy See is locked in a dispute over religious freedom) as "absurd", and said there are small difficulties in Russia, where Catholics are few and relations with the Orthodox are improving. Egypt poses some problems as well. ¶4. (C) Ramirez asked about Cuba. Lajolo said the Church has some concerns but finds the overall situation tolerable, ;including from a pastoral point of view. He said that while only 3% of Catholics attend mass today in Cuba, the figure before Castro was only 5%. Bibles can be imported. There is a long wait for official permission to build new churches. ¶5. (C) On Venezuela, Lajolo said the GOV is against certain bishops and is trying to divide bishops from the Holy See, and from each other. The government helps only pro-regime priests. Lajolo said he was not well informed on the situation regarding religious education in Venezuela. ¶6. (C) Lajolo described North Korea as Rome's number two concern in religious freedom. There is a Catholic hospital, run by the Benedictines; he did not know the number of Catholics in the country and doubted whether all of those attending mass were in fact Catholics. Ramirez asked about executions of Christians; Lajolo said he had not heard that but news is scarce. He mentioned missing bishops and priests. ¶7. (C) Ramirez said the CIRF had visited China in August 2005 at the government's invitation; he said the PRC had disavowed knowledge of missing clerics, but later admitted that one was under house arrest. Lajolo agreed that the recent illicit ordinations of two Chinese bishops had been a step back for relations, as had been the Chinese reaction to Cardinal Zen's appointment. The two bishops should have known better, said Lajolo; we have written to them but are still awaiting a VATICAN 00000156 002.2 OF 002 response. Ramirez asked for recommendations; Lajolo encouraged the CIRF to gather all evidence and publish it. Discussion with Balestrero on China, Western Europe, Turkey, Vietnam, Israel -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- ¶8. (C) At this point Lajolo excused himself and Balestrero took over. He asked that CIRF help Beijing understand that religious freedom is a real concern for the Holy See, not merely a talking point. Flipse confirmed that the USG makes this point, but noted that a firm linkage to commercial or military issues was not in the cards, but rather proceeded on separate tracks. Flipse regretted that expectations that growing wealth in China would lead automatically to greater freedom had been slow to bear fruit. Ramirez said the PRC is so concerned about the economy, it doesn't want any obstacles. Balestrero said internal oppression is counterproductive for the Chinese in any case. ¶9. (C) Balestrero cited other trouble spots, including Western countries, where secularization and relativism had created weakness. He referred to a Spanish TV program called "How to Cook a Crucifix" as outrageous and mentioned that some MPs had made a "pilgrimage" to Israel during which they mocked religious symbols. In Germany, broadcast of the cartoon "Popetown" had continued despite protests. Balestrero felt better hate speech laws are needed in such cases. Balestrero added that chaplains had been banned from French schools to protect "laicite". The Holy See feels there is a reluctance to address such cases, and it must do more to raise awareness through papal nuncios and bishops' conferences. 10, (C) Balestrero said Vietnam is a bit better now, with more priests free to work and seminaries. Ramirez asked if Vietnam should remain a Category Three country (CPC); Balestrero said he'd need to think about that. ¶11. (C) Balestrero said the Holy See had concerns in Israel; he mentioned Rep. Hyde's letter about the plight of Christians there. The Fundamental Agreement is really needed. Palestinian Christians are in real trouble. They are on the edge of despair, treated with disregard, restrictions, injustices. ¶12. (C) Ramirez asked how CIRF should work with Holy See. Balestrero encouraged CIRF to remain in touch with him and said the Vatican is aware of the CIRF website and reports. He recalled meeting Ramirez and Chaput three years ago, while on an IV visit to the US. Balestrero asked that CIRF let him know before it visits Turkey this fall, and the Holy See could perhaps help with contacts and information on current events. He said that Turkey is not sufficiently supportive of religious freedom for EU membership. The pope will visit in November for ecumenical reasons; Turkey is always thus among the first visits for any pope. Balestrero said bishops in Turkey complain about daily propaganda against non-Muslims which is sometimes winked at by authorities, and he cited petitions to this effect signed by all religious minority leaders in Turkey. Nevertheless, Balestrero clarified that the Holy See does not take any public position on Turkey's EU membership. Comment -------------- ¶13. (C) Bishop Ramirez' effective presentation on the USCIRF and his role in it was welcomed by Lajolo and Balestrero, and should pave the way for increased cooperation with the Holy See. Lajolo's emphasis on Holy See concerns over Saudi Arabia and North Korea was also welcome. Post looks forward to further work with USCIRF and will continue to track and support the issue of religious freedom strongly. SANDROLINI