ITALY: MOI AMATO TALKS IMMIGRATION, IRAN, MIDDLE

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 ROME 001770 SIPDIS NOFORN SIPDIS E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/04/2016 TAGS: PREL PTER PGOV UN IZ IN IT SUBJECT: ITALY: MOI AMATO TALKS IMMIGRATION, IRAN, MIDDLE EAST PEACE WITH CODEL ALLEN ROME 00001770 001.2 OF 002 Classified By: Ambassador Ronald P. Spogli for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d). SUMMARY -------------- ¶1. (SBU) The Ambassador and Senator George Allen met May 30 with Italy's new Minister of Interior Giuliano Amato. Allen thanked Amato for the GoI's excellent counter terrorism cooperation. Amato discussed Italy's problem with illegal aliens arriving from Libya, the challenge of containing Iran's nuclear ambitions and Middle East peace. END SUMMARY. ¶2. (U) The Ambassador and Senator George Allen met May 30 with Italy's new Minister of Interior Giuliano Amato. Amato was accompanied by Diplomatic Adviser Guido Lenzi. The Ambassador and Sen. Allen were accompanied by Paul Unger and Embassy note taker. Most of the discussion veered into areas outside Amato's portfolio, and it is unclear how much of what he said is official GoI policy and how much reflects the personal opinion of a politician who prides himself on being an academic. ¶3. (U) Allen opened the conversation by thanking Amato for the tremendous cooperation between Italian and U.S. intelligence and security services. Allen specifically mentioned the benefits of close cooperation during the recent Olympic Games. Amato was appreciative and assured the Senator of continued close cooperation. MINISTRY OF INTERIOR KEEPS AMATO LINKED TO EU -------------- ¶4. (SBU) Amato explained how his position as Minister of Interior keeps him actively engaged in EU issues. He said his role as Vice President of the Drafting Committee for the failed EU Constitution bought him considerable experience with the Third Pillar issues of security and justice. As Interior Minister, Amato said he is already closely engaged with the G5 plus Poland on better ways to share security information. Allen noted that information sharing is fundamental to the fight against terrorism and assured Amato that the U.S. was eager to increase information sharing with the EU. LIBYA AND IMMIGRATION -------------- ¶5. (SBU) Noting that he was actively following the immigration debate in the U.S., Amato acknowledged illegal immigration as a growing concern for Italy. He said that most illegal immigrants enter Italy through Libya, and that Italy's challenge (other than integrating those who remain) is how to send them back. He noted that Amnesty International has been highly critical of the GOI policy of repatriating illegals back to Libya, which has not signed the relevant Geneva Convention. After a question from Allen, Amato said that Italy's customs police (Guardia di Finanza) had an excellent fleet of fast boats acquired at the time of massive illegal immigration from Albania, but said the trip from Libya to Italy is so short that Italy really needs the ability to patrol the Libyan coast to effectively interdict illegals crossing the short stretch between the two countries. ¶6. (SBU) Amato said he is highly supportive of a Spanish idea to develop a European fleet to operate in the Mediterranean in a similar capacity to the U.S. Coast Guard. He said Italy's colonial legacy makes Libya sensitive to any Italian military/law enforcement presence in its territorial waters, but Amato thought sensitivities would be less strong against an EU presence. Amato added that illegal immigration through Italy is a European problem, not just an Italian one. ¶7. (C) Amato said Libya has its own problems controlling inward migration and said he had heard Libya was considering the implementation of a visa requirement for Egyptians. Amato said the Libyan Ambassador to the U.N, Agencies in Rome had proposed a large international conference in Tripoli to discuss problems of immigration throughout the Mediterranean. However, Amato noted the Libyan Ambassador said Libya would be seeking attendance at the head of government level, and Amato speculated the proposed conference would most likely be a forum through which Qadhafi would try to gain greater international legitimacy more than a serious effort to solve common immigration problems. Nevertheless, Amato seemed open to the idea. ¶8. (C) Amato asked about current U.S. thinking on Libya given the recent establishment of full diplomatic relations with Tripoli. He then offered his opinion that Qadhafi is not to be trusted. Amato continued that Qadhafi is a survivor who ROME 00001770 002.2 OF 002 realized that Islamic terrorism threatens his regime as well, so he has decided to rejoin the international community. Agreeing with Amato, Sen. Allen added that Qadhafi saw what happened to Saddam Hussein, and when faced with the fact that the U.S. had amassed clear evidence of his own WMD program, decided to give it up. Allen continued that Libya, and the benefits its people will receive as a result of returning to the community of nations, potentially could serve as an example for the people of Iran. STAYING UNITED ON IRAN -------------- ¶9. (C) Allen explained that the U.S. goal in Iran is to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, while he acknowledged Iran could probably not be stopped from acquiring peaceful nuclear technology. Allen continued that Italy, with its strong commercial ties to Iran, is a vital ally in that regard. Amato said that Italy will remain united with the U.S. on Iran and believes a military strike should be the absolute last resort. He continued that Egyptian President Mubarak recently told him that Iran could activate a world wide terror network immediately in the event of any attack, either by the U.S. or Israel. He continued that the international community must be careful in how it pressures Iran, since the Iranian leadership is agile at playing the nationalist card to rally internal support against the common aggressor. Allen agreed with Amato's assertion that the U.S. must be careful to prevent Israel from taking unilateral action against Iranian facilities. THE MIDDLE EAST PEACE PROCESS -------------- ¶10. (C) Amato said the Palestinian people did not vote for Hamas because they supported its violent tactics. Rather, it was a vote against the corrupt Al Fatah administration. He continued that the West bears some responsibility for tolerating Al Fatah corruption. Amato then criticized former President Clinton for attempting to solve the entire Middle East Peace problem in one step instead of moving one piece at a time. Amato speculated that the major obstacle was the status of Jerusalem and said that Clinton should have encouraged Israeli and Palestinian leaders to reach an accord that left resolving control of Jerusalem for a later date. Allen agreed that Hamas presents a new challenge to the peace process but reiterated that Hamas must accept the existence of Israel and renounce violence. MUSLIM INTEGRATION -------------- ¶11. (C) Amato called for greater communication between Muslim and Christian societies and said we must work to prevent hate from being taught to young Muslims in schools. He noted that Vatican opposition to the war in Iraq was designed to mitigate the perception in the Muslim world that the war was a church-sanctioned crusade. Allen agreed on the need to prevent religion from being used as a justification or explanation for war. ¶12. (SBU) Citing strong cultural differences between Muslims and Christians, Amato said Europe could learn from the U.S. experience of assimilating new groups into society. He criticized the notion that Europe links its political identity, and, traditionally, citizenship, to Christianity and noted that Jews were once denied citizenship in much of Europe. Amato said Europe, and especially Italy, is just learning how to assimilate Muslims and that the riots in France and the 2005 terrorist attacks in London indicate that the French and British integration models are not working. ¶13. (U) This cable has been cleared by Codel Allen. 14, (U) Tripoli minimize considered. BORG