USD EDELMAN'S MEETING WITH ASSISTANT MOI PRINCE

S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 04 RIYADH 005079

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/10/2016
TAGS: SA MARR PBTS PGOV PINR PINS PTER ENRG
SUBJECT: USD EDELMAN'S MEETING WITH ASSISTANT MOI PRINCE
MUHAMMAD BIN NAIF

REF: RIYADH 4334

Classified By: Ambassador James C. Oberwetter for reasons 1.4 (b) and (
d).


1. (S) Summary: Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Eric
Edelman discussed detainees, helicopters, infrastructure
security, Iraq, and border security during a June 6 meeting
with Assistant Minister of Interior for Security Affairs
Prince Muhammad bin Naif. Prince Muhammad confirmed that the
SAG will allow the 'stateless' Turkestani detainee to return
to the Kingdom from GTMO. U/S Edelman noted that the May
visits of the helicopter assessment team went well and the
interagency group is preparing its recommendations on short,
medium and long-term solutions. Prince Muhammad said that
the MOI is strengthening its Infrastructure Security Force
from 3,000 to 30,000 men. He also discussed the successes of
MOI efforts to stop Saudi citizens from crossing the border
into Iraq, noting that the MOI tries to counsel and reform
individuals who are caught before they cross the border.
Prince Muhammad is concerned that Saudi citizens detained in
Iraq are not being returned to Saudi authority, and U/S
Edelman explained that an extradition agreement needs to be
discussed with the new Iraqi government. Prince Muhammad
also noted Saudi concerns over the smuggling of drugs,
weapons and explosives, particularly from Yemen. End
Summary.


2. (S) During their June 6 meeting, Under Secretary of
Defense for Policy Eric Edelman and Assistant Minister of the
Interior for Security Affairs Prince Muhammad bin Naif
discussed detainees, helicopters, infrastructure security,
Iraq, and border security. Ambassador Oberwetter, Michael
Coulter (DAS for PolMil Affairs),BG Michael Jones (Joint
Staff J-5 Deputy Director for PolMil Affairs),and PolMilOff
(notetaker) also attended. Lt Gen Jeffrey Kohler (Director,
DSCA) and RADM Robert Moeller (CENTCOM J-5),attended U/S
Edelman's meetings with the King, Crown Prince and Assistant
Minister of Defense and Aviation (SepTels),but were not
present for the meeting with Prince Muhammad.


3. (S) U/S Edelman told Prince Muhammad that his delegation
to Saudi Arabia included representatives from several
agencies because the USG is approaching Saudi security
assistance with an integrated, interagency approach. The
State Department, he explained, is the lead agency working
with MOI on CT and infrastructure security, with support from
the JCS. He said that the State Department-led infrastructure
security assessment team that visited the Kingdom in May
included representatives from DoE, CIA, and FBI, and their
report will be briefed back to the SAG soon.

--------------
DETAINEES
--------------


4. (S) U/S Edelman thanked Prince Muhammad for his assistance
in allowing the return to the Kingdom of the 'stateless' GTMO
detainee, Mr. Turkestani. (Comment: Ahmad Sadik Turkestani is
not a Saudi citizen, but was born and raised in the Kingdom
and all of his family is here. The USG had determined that
he is 'no longer an enemy combatant' and had been pushing the
SAG to allow his return to the Kingdom. We anticipate that
he will be included in the next group of GTMO detainees to be
returned to the Kingdom. End Comment.) Prince Muhammad
replied, "his family is here. We have to let him back," but
added that he "strongly advises" the USG to "get out of the
detainee business."


5. (S) U/S Edelman responded that the pending Supreme Court
decision on the Hamdan case will determine whether the USG
can use military commissions to try detainees. Prince
Muhammad asked how many detainees are still being held at
GTMO, and U/S Edelman said that the number is roughly 400.
The Prince responded that the SAG estimated that 800-900
detainees are being held, adding that "something needs to be

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done" to resolve the matter.

--------------
HELICOPTERS AND INFRASTRUCTURE SECURITY
--------------


6. (S) Mr. Coulter said that the USG is committed to
utilizing all of its assets to help strengthen the security
of oil and other critical infrastructure facilities in Saudi
Arabia. He said that the USG is using the interagency
approach to discuss "in a holistic manner how to take the oil
weapon away from the terrorists." He said that in addition
to helicopters, the USG proposal will focus on Intelligence,
Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) to watch the pipelines
and facilities at all times and to help harden the
facilities.


7. (S) BG Jones thanked Prince Muhammad for hosting the
helicopter assessment team that visited the Kingdom in May,
and explained that the long-term solution will take time. He
said the team was "very impressed" with the depth of thought
that MOI has put into obtaining an appropriate helicopter
capability, particularly in the short-term. U/S Edelman and
BG Jones added that MOI was doing a great job with
maintaining their current fleet of helicopters, which are
still flying despite being near the end of their lifespan.


8. (S) Prince Muhammad said that MOI prefers to buy U.S.-made
helicopters, namely from Boeing and Sikorsky. He said that he
realized that the acquisition process could take 18 months,
or longer, and said that the MOI will also be looking at
Japanese, French, and other European companies to speed up
that time frame. U/S Edelman said that medium to heavy lift
helicopters are necessary for moving people, but that ISR is
necessary to see what is happening at all times "with an
unblinking eye". He said that helicopters are not the best
ISR platform.


9. (S) Prince Muhammad agreed that integrating intelligence
and security is very important, and said that the facilities
must be able to protect themselves "from the inside, as if
there is no security on the outside." He added that the risk
of sabotage from insiders "worries me the most," noting that
four Aramco security guards were arrested for their
connection to the February attack on the Abqaiq oil
processing facility. Prince Muhammad said that the new MOI
Infrastructure Security Force used to be a small outfit in
the Public Security division, but is increasing from 3,000 to
30,000 men, including an intelligence component. Overall,
Prince Muhammad said that the security situation in the
Kingdom is "much safer" than it was four years ago, but
acknowledged that there is still a long way to go. "Security
is a red-line for us," he said. "No one can mess with that.
When you lose security, you lose everything."

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IRAQ
--------------


10. (S) Prince Muhammad asked U/S Edelman about the situation
in Iraq and U/S Edelman replied that he would know better in
the coming days, as he was going there next. U/S Edelman
said that the formation of a permanent government is a big
step, but that naming a Minister of Defense and Minister of
Interior is crucial. He said that the U.S. has made great
progress in training Iraqi security forces, which currently
include 263,000 men, and increasingly we see Iraqi battalions
taking the lead in combat operations. He said that a big
focus for 2006 is training Iraqi police. He added that the
USG is also emphasizing building the capacity of ministries
to train their own personnel and develop a command and
control architecture, rather than relying on USG training for
individual units. He also told Prince Muhammad that DOD is
accelerating the training of motorized transport regiments to
provide combat support and combat service support, with the
goal of allowing Iraqis to take on more responsibility by the

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end of the year.


11. (S) When asked whether Iran has any links with Al Qaeda
in Iraq (AQIZ),U/S Edelman said that he has not seen any
direct evidence, but the USG does know that Iran is helping
terrorists develop explosively formed penetrating charges for
IEDs, which is very problematic. He added that Iran does
help AQIZ by allowing terrorists from the
Afghanistan-Pakistan border regions to transit through Iran
en route to Iraq. Prince Muhammad also asked whether the
Iraqi government is concerned with fighting the Zarqawi
ideology, to which U/S Edelman replied, "definitely," and
that all parts of the Iraqi government want to defeat this
view. (Comment: U/S Edelman and Prince Muhammad met the day
before Zarqawi was killed. End Comment.)


12. (S) BG Jones said that the biggest vulnerability to Iraqi
oil facilities are the pipelines, as they are exposed and
difficult to harden. He said that the U.S. is helping the
Iraqi Ministry of Defense create infrastructure protection
battalions, and the fixed facilities are well protected.


13. (S) U/S Edelman said that he would share a copy of the
9010 report to Congress, which provides a clearer picture of
our counterterrorism efforts in Iraq. He also said he could
give Prince Muhammad a more complete read-out after his visit
to Iraq. Prince Muhammad asked how many Saudi citizens have
been detained in Iraq and U/S Edelman said that the number is
in the mid-50s. BG Jones added that the number of Saudi
fighters in Iraq does not appear to be increasing, and if
anything, is decreasing. U/S Edelman said that both the SAG
and the USG want to transfer the Saudi detainees to SAG
authority, but that needs to be coordinated with the Iraqi
government through an extradition agreement. Prince Muhammad
said he understood that the SAG should send a letter to the
Iraqi Ministry of Justice regarding the transfer of
detainees. He added that the Iraqi government wants to know
who sent the Saudis to fight in Iraq, which would be helpful
information for the SAG as well. U/S Edelman said that he
would discuss the detainee issue while in Iraq, and Prince
Muhammad stressed that the SAG is losing public credibility,
because the prisoners are not returning to the Kingdom. U/S
Edelman noted that with the new, permanent Iraqi government
in place, the process of extraditing detainees could soon be
clarified.


14. (S) Turning to the recruitment of terrorists, Prince
Muhammad said that young people are most at risk of being
manipulated. He said that the SAG is working with families
whose sons have joined the terrorists or who have gone to
Iraq to fight. "We make sure they know," he said, "that
their sons are addicted, they are deviants. They are not
heroes. We tell families, 'our hearts are with you, you lost
your son. Together we need to stand against those who
convinced your son to do this." He added that the MOI policy
is to stop Saudis before they cross the border into Iraq, and
work on counseling and reforming those individuals, including
introducing them to clerics who promote Islamic arguments
against terrorism. He said that the MOI has received many
phone calls from family members, and has successfully stopped
many men from crossing into Iraq. "The families are very
important, as they can see their sons turn early," he said.
"We will get him to the right clerics to fix his brain. But,
if he does cross the border, we will try him," he added. U/S
Edelman agreed that the MOI program of dealing with the
families is very helpful, as are the anti-terrorist public
relations and media campaigns in Saudi Arabia.

--------------
BORDER SECURITY
--------------


15. (S) Prince Muhammad said that the Kingdom is very
concerned about protecting its borders, both with Iraq and
Yemen. He said that drug smuggling is a problem in the north,
while weapons and explosives are smuggled in from Yemen. He

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said that the SAG is starting to build fences, and wants to
put larger barricades up in the south. However, he noted,
the Yemeni government has resisted putting up stronger
barriers because some Yemeni officials profit from illicit
cross-border trade. Prince Muhammad told U/S Edelman that
none of the 23 terrorists that escaped from a Yemeni prison
in February have been found in Saudi Arabia. However, he
said, the MOI is listening to phone calls of their family
members. (Comment: Crown Prince Sultan led a delegation to
Yemen for the Saudi-Yemeni Coordination Council meeting in
late May. The two sides signed an agreement officially
demarcating the border, as well as other accords on economic
development. RefTel. End Comment.)


16. (S) U/S Edelman said that the USG supports the
Raytheon-led proposal for the Border Guard Modernization
Program, and noted that our CT efforts with Yemen are
ongoing. He said that sensors may be more important than
barriers, but border security encompasses many areas,
including intelligence, customs, immigration, and smuggling.
He suggested that, if asked, DHS might be able to assist the
Kingdom with border security. Prince Muhammad said that
2,000 to 3,000 people illegally cross the Yemen border daily,
only to be sent back and then try to enter again at night.


17. (S) Comment. Prince Muhammad asked numerous questions
and seemed to favor listening to the delegation, rather than
elaborate on his own views. MOI is clearly concerned about
infrastructure and border security, and Prince Muhammad
seemed pleased with the May visits of the helicopter
assessment team and infrastructure security team. He did not
press for an immediate supply of new helicopters, but he made
it clear that the MOI would not passively wait for a U.S.
solution. He did not provide any detailed comments on the
Border Guard Modernization Program, although the bidder's
conference kicked-off earlier that week. Despite his
penchant for meeting late at night with little advance
notification, Prince Muhammad will likely continue to welcome
senior level consultations from USG visitors. End Comment.


18. (U) U/S Edelman and Mr. Coulter cleared this cable.
OBERWETTER