C O N F I D E N T I A L LJUBLJANA 000483

SIPDIS

SIPDIS

STATE FOR EUR/NCE - TRIM AND PM/RSAT - DOWLEY
OSD FOR SADOWSKA
JOINT STAFF FOR MANTIPLY

E.O. 12958: DECL: 07/24/2016
TAGS: SI
SUBJECT: SLOVENIA: COM CALLS ON NEW CHIEF OF DEFENSE GUTMAN

REF: A. LJUBLJANA 346

B. LJUBLJANA 388

Classified By: COM Thomas B. Robertson for Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d)


1. (C) SUMMARY. On 20 July COM paid a courtesy call on the
new Chief of Defense (CHOD) of the Slovenian Armed Forces
(SAF) Lt. General Albin Gutman. Gutman, returning to the
CHOD position for the second time, was well prepared and
talked at length about the entire slate of U.S.-Slovenia
military cooperation. COM used the opportunity to get
updates on this summer's hot topics at the Ministry of
Defense (MoD), including the highly contentious 8x8 armored
vehicles purchase decision, C-130 transport aircraft needs,
and the GoS's interest in purchasing fighter aircraft.
Gutman delivered frank assessments of all three issues,
saying the 8x8 deal was fair and final, C-130s are not on the
shopping list, and national pride will soon make fighters a
political priority. END SUMMARY.

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COM DRUMS UP INTEREST, GETS ANSWERS
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2. (U) COM called on Gutman to congratulate him on his return
to the CHOD position, encourage greater interest in
military-to-military cooperation, and seek more information
on several hot topics at the MoD this summer. He was
accompanied by DATT, Office of Defense Cooperation Chief,
Bilateral Affairs Officer (BAO), and PolMilOff. After an
exchange of pleasantries, COM introduced the team working on
military issues from the Embassy, briefed Gutman on the
success of the recent Political Military talks at the
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and stressed that the Embassy is
ready to respond to requests for assistance and push forward
with cooperation.

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A FOCUS ON STRENGTHENING COOPERATION FOR THE LONG TERM
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3. (U) Gutman began with an overview of current U.S.-Slovenia
military cooperation, focusing largely on training and
military schools. He noted the lack of military academies in
Slovenia and said that the SAF traditionally sends its very
best officers to the U.S. He stated an interest in guaranteed
slots in training classes and military schools, and was also
curious about

costs for these programs. Gutman asked for more
information on the Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) corps and
indicated that the SAF needs help developing their NCO corps
and identifying the role of NCOs, with a focus on
practicality.


4. (U) Gutman was very positive about cooperation in general,
stating that he hoped to upgrade and enhance relations with
the U.S. during his time as CHOD. He proposed a meeting at
the working level to examine the issue and develop "more
intensive cooperation for the long term." In this context,
Gutman said that he was surprised to see how dramatically
U.S.-Slovenia military-to-military cooperation had decreased
since his previous term as CHOD.


5. (U) ODC Chief informed Gutman that individual training
cooperation has increased significantly given the size of the
Slovenian military (from 50 Slovenes taking part in 1998 to
80 in 2006) but confirmed the reduction in information
exchange events between the middle 1990s and today (56 events
in 1998, Gutman's last year during his first appointment as
CHOD, and 11 events in 2006). Gutman was aware that the
reduction in information exchange events was due to
Slovenia's transition from a Partnership for Peace member and
NATO aspirant in the mid 1990s to a full NATO member today.
He noted that the focus of both the U.S. and Slovenia today
is on future expansion of the Alliance.

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TRANSFORMATION AND PROCUREMENT IN THE SAF
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6. (C) Gutman initiated a discussion about cooperation on
studying Slovenia's air defense needs and then segued into a
frank overview of the current internal debate in the MoD and
the Government about the purchase of fighter aircraft.
Looking at the SAF's needs over the long term, Gutman
indicated that costs for aircraft were of much less concern
to him than personnel needs, saying that if there was the
political desire to purchase aircraft, the GoS is "capable of
finding the money." He is focused on making a timely
decision on pilot training to ensure the MoD will have a
cadre of pilots ready to go when the political decision is
made regarding an aircraft purchase (most likely in 2009 or
2010). COM noted that the GoS was likely to get pushback from
NATO and bigger countries about the need for fighter aircraft
given NATO's over capacity, the lack of a clear air threat,
and the detrimental effect this could have on Slovenia
meeting other NATO force goals. Gutman acknowledged these
points but politely and forcefully responded that the
decision would be a "political one" that focused on (1)
Slovenians' historical interest in aviation (which Gutman
described by saying "we have piloting in our blood,") (2) a
desire for the SAF to have top-of-the-line equipment for
land, sea, and air, and, most importantly, (3) the
unacceptable prospect of Croatia or Serbia, as a future NATO
member, using their fighter aircraft to police Slovenia's
airspace. (COMMENT: Slovenia's airspace is technically
policed through an agreement with Italy. However, only one
token flight has been made - the day after Slovenia became a
NATO member in 2004 - and the GoS continues to look for a
long term arrangement for its air defense. END COMMENT.)


7. (C) In response to a question from COM on transport
capabilities and the possible purchase of a C-130, Gutman
indicated that his focus was on troop transport via
helicopter as opposed to the purchase of large transport
aircraft, and he seemed to be content with the SAF's ability
to utilize NATO transport aircraft when necessary. Gutman
talked briefly about the controversial MoD selection on 12
June of Finnish defense contractor Patria Vehicles to supply
136 8x8 armored wheeled vehicles to the SAF by 2012 (ref B).
He walked through a polished set of talking points, saying
that the assessment of the bids was fair and that Patria made
the better offer in terms of technology, finances, and
benefit to the Slovenian economy. In spite of the intense
discussion the issue has sparked in the press, Gutman gave
the impression that the final decision has been reached. In
his opinion, Slovenian defense company Sistemska Tehnika lost
the bid because of "inadequate business decisions" which led
to a clearly inferior bid.


8. (C) Gutman concluded the meeting with comments about land
and sea defense, and the SAF's continuing transformation
efforts. He said that Slovenia would meet its promise to
provide combat-ready units to NATO by 2012. He also talked
about his interest in preserving some parts of the SAF that
are not NATO oriented, for example, the Army's tank unit. He
also expressed concern about the SAF's recruiting efforts
given Slovenia's declining birthrate. Gutman concluded the
meeting by expressing a desire to improve cooperation in the
area of sea defense, stating that he expected an increasing
political interest in strengthening the Slovenian Navy,
particularly its search and rescue capabilities, and U.S.
expertise in this area could be helpful. (COMMENT:
Strengthening of the Slovenian Navy could prove to be
contentious given the GoS's long-standing dispute with
Croatia over open access to the sea through the Bay of Piran.
END COMMENT.)

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FRIENDS IN HIGH PLACES
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9. (C) COMMENT: Gutman was appointed on 1 June to replace
Major General Ladislav Lipic; the appointment officially
became effective on June 2 (ref A). This is his second time
in the Chief of Defense role. He was previously in the role
from 1993 to 1998 under then Defense Minister, now Prime
Minister, Janez Jansa. He is an experienced and professional
soldier with an excellent reputation in military circles and
he has the confidence of both PM Jansa and Minister of
Defense Karl Erjavec. His knowledge of details of the SAF's
activities during the lengthy meeting (1 hour 15 minutes) and
his command of the needs of the SAF today and over the next
15 years was impressive. In spite of speculation that he
will be a short-term, transition leader in the CHOD position,
it is apparent that he has the experience and knowledge to
make things happen and set the SAF's direction for the long
term. Though he does not speak English, rare for a high
ranking Slovene, he is highly interested in cooperation with
the U.S. military and appreciative of the expertise and
advice that Slovenia has received in the past. He spoke
briefly to the BAO about his warm regard for the SAF -
Colorado National Guard relationship, and was happy to hear
that Adjutant General Mason Whitney (they met when Gutman was
previously CHOD) would be visiting this November. We expect
Gutman to continue Slovenia's strong support for NATO,
U.S.-Slovenia military cooperation, and the further
transformation of the SAF. END COMMENT.
ROBERTSON