Bashir Interview: AU Summit, Darfur, AIDS,

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 06 KHARTOUM 000258

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DEPT FOR AF/SPG
DEPT PLS PASS USAID FOR AFR/SUDAN

E.O. 12958: N/A
TAGS: PGOV PREL ETRD EAGR EPET KPKO KHIV AU SU
SUBJECT: Bashir Interview: AU Summit, Darfur, AIDS,
Trade, and Oil



1. (U) Summary and comment: Post received an English
copy of President Omer Al-Bashir's interview with Sudan
News Agency Director General Mohamed Hatim Sulieman on
the occasion of the convening of the 6th African Union
Summit in Khartoum. Bashir responded to questions on a
number of issues ranging from local to regional and
international questions.


2. (SBU) In the carefully staged interview, President
Bashir pushed some familiar themes: the foreign
conspiracy to undermine Sudan, the government's lack of
responsibility for Darfur, and the west's efforts to
continually move the goal posts so that Sudan can never
succeed. He also took the opportunity to push his
campaign for AU chairmanship, with both the President and
the reporter citing several instances where African
leaders took charge of major organizations despite
internal conflicts.


3. (U) The interview then moves on to development
issues. While generally following the policies of the
non-aligned movement, the President does say AIDS is less
prevalent in countries that are "religiously and morally
committed." The dialogue ends with an explanation of how
U.S. oil companies had tried to deny Sudan its oil wealth
by refusing to produce until America could better control
and exploit Sudan. He concluded by saying it is fortune
that south-south cooperation has led to Sudan being able
to prosper from it resources. End summary and comment.


3. (U) The text of the interview is as follows:

(Begin text as received)

Question: Mr. President, Khartoum is now witnessing
intensive activities aimed at preparing the ground for
the sixth African Union summit conference, this was
preceded by invitations for the African leaders as well
as your visit to each of Nigeria and Libya and a number
of African countries, do you expect a huge turn out for
the summit?

President: In the name of Allah the Graceful the
Dispenser of Grace, and Peace and Blessing of Allah be
Upon His Prophet. Yes. In fact we expect a massive turn
out for the African heads of state to this summit, we
have dispatched delegations and envoys for this purpose
and this would be the outcome.

Question: Mr. President do you expect this summit to be
a successful one?

President: We think this will be an important summit
that will be unique as regards the issues it would be
handling, in particular the questions related to culture
and science which are very important parts of the
discussions of the summit. It is here that we think that
our continent is far behind. If we are talking about the
African union we have to be aware of the size of the
differences that exist between and inside the continent,
which has become vulnerable to foreign cultures. Africa
is divided between the French and the English speaking
countries and thus we would like to have an organization
that will lead to the creation of a body, the African
Educational, Scientific, Cultural Organization (AFESCO)
that will lay the ground for unification.

Question: Could we Mr. President speak of Khartoum and
Sudan working to see a successful summit, or is Khartoum
working only to secure winning the chairmanship of the
African Union?

President: For us the success of the summit comes first,
preceding even the chairmanship of the AU. The essential
issue is not the chairmanship but rather the success of
the summit. This is our priority.

Question: The summit conference success?

President: Yes the success of the summit is our
priority. For us this is a very important issue and it
would lead to the solution of many a question in the
continent and problem that the continent faces.

Question: Mr. President your government has scored many
successes in the petroleum exploration and in the
political domains it has achieved peace but up to now it
has not achieved a breakthrough in the question of
Darfur, your comment?

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President: Yes this is one of the major questions. In
fact most of our problems are not internal alone. The
foreign element is prominent here. There is no doubt
that peace could be achieved between two parties however
it is clear that the other party or other parties are not
keen to achieve peace. Just look at the tremendous
efforts we have exerted in the negotiation and the
efforts exerted for the unification of those factions,
factions with specific demands and with specific
policies, efforts exerted in Italy and those exerted in
many other places, but it is clear those movements are
not qualified to unite their ranks

Question: Mr. President, Kenya has handled the peace
file between the Sudanese government and the Sudan people
liberation Movement SPLM well after it was no longer
heading the IGAD, so by analogy do you think the Darfur
file would be removed from the hands of President
Obassanjo in case the Sudan assumes the chairmanship of
the African Union?

President: We have made it clear that the file would not
be removed from the hand of president Obassanjo of
Nigeria as mediator because any change in the file would
mean beginning from scratch. So at least Nigeria and
president Obassanjo have become familiar with the file,
with the negotiations and all other activities
surrounding the question of Darfur, be it within the AU
or in the Peace and Security Council or during the five
member summit or even in the bilateral encounters, thus
Nigeria is the best lieu for.

Question: Handling the file?

President: Yes for handling the file.

Question: Mr. President on the international level we
have been following the question of the International
Criminal Court ICC and also the report of the Human
Rights Watch groups on alleged human rights violation in
Darfur and on the regional level the year 2005 witnessed
the signing of the CPA in Sudan that was considered a
good omen for Africa. On the other hand we have seen the
election of a president for Togo and a Hutu leader was
elected President for Burundi and Mrs. Ben Johnson was
also elected as the first African lady to become
President. But this same year has seen a renewal of the
Ethiopian over Badamy triangle and then by the end of the
year we witnessed a scuffle between Sudan and Chad and
the campaign led for foiling the convening of fire sixth
summit conference in the Sudan and the chairmanship of
the AU added to this the recent statements by Koffi
Annan. So Mr. President, how do you see all these evens
while we are approaching the convening of the summit
conference in Khartoum?

President: Of course there was an influential and big
power that had been opposing the convening of the summit
in Khartoum and as the convening of the summit was a
decision to be taken by the heads of state in the African
continent thus it became difficult for them to cancel the
convening of the summit in Khartoum. So they did their
best that the AU would not nominate or elect the Sudan
for the chairmanship of the African Union for the coming
year. All this is to be seen within the context of the
plotting against Sudan. We have noticed that whenever we
score a success in one area the activities of the hostile
quarters would be intensified for creating other problems
that would affect the Sudan. This was clear that the
moment we were about to sign the peace protocols in
Naivasha, the question of Darfur was escalated and was
brought to the attention of the Security Council despite
the fact that the war in southern Sudan continued for
twenty years, the longest war in the continent and the
most destructive war in therein, still the issue was
never brought to the attention of the security council
but the success we secured was not expected by elements
opposing the peace in southern Sudan and we are now sure
that they are hiding waiting if the peace deal works in
Darfur then they would fan the question of Eastern Sudan
and the report of the Human Rights Watch is never a
surprise to us nor was the report of Amnesty
International nor that which was filed by Christian of
Baronet Cox. Those are all quarters that have been
declaring war against the Sudan and are coming up with
allegations about all these human rights violation and
about the genocide and about the ethnic cleansing and
mass rape and now they are coming up with the lie of the

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forceful kidnapping and all these are not new to us and
they in fact are no longer bothering us, we have lived
with them for the last 16 years.

Question: This is despite the fact that the question of
the Niger Delta had not prevented Nigeria from heading
the Union likewise the question between Ethiopia and
Eritrea did not prevent Ethiopia from heading the AU?

President: In fact Kenya, which since 1993 was heading
IGAD when the initiative was launched, and its
chairmanship for IGAD changed and we were heading that
organization for two session but still Kenya continued to
handle the Sudanese peace file. The same with Somalia
when Kenya was handling that file, it continued.

Question: And it now heads the session for the African
Peace and Security Council?

President: Yes, we could not link the two issues, but
the file of Darfur will remain in the hands of President
Obassajo, God willing.

Question: Mr. President since the formation of the
Organization of African Unity in 1963 and its conversion
into the African Union in June 11 2002, the continent
witnessed some 126 coups and 24 wars and disunity is
facing a number of African countries, so how can the
African unity be realized and is the African union a copy
of the European union or is it a real crystallization of
the political, economic and cultural unity under the
umbrella of the African diversity?

President: Our view of the African problem is that most
of them are internal problems inside the countries, this
is because of the reasons that the countries in Africa
were not formed in the natural way, the colonization drew
the borderlines and amassed inside the boundaries of one
and each state contradictions and the existence of these
contradictions led to the creation of a conducive climate
for time bombs that could go off and as there are so much
of interest in Africa, Africa being the virgin land with
its un tapped natural resources and the fact that Africa
has huge raw material needed for the western industries
and if we look at the aphidian map and the map of the
problems the continent is suffering from them we would
come with the conclusion that the two are identical.
That the countries with huge potentials in the lake area
we will find Congo and Angola and we will find Sudan.

Question: The presence petroleum and diamonds?

President: Wherever there is gold, oil and diamond then
you have problems and people who want to keep Africa poor
and ignorant and a source of raw material they are the
countries that are behind the problems in Africa. Thus
the African unity is our only hope to get out of those
problems. If you look at Asia we find that it has
already moved forwards, Europe and America the same, then
what rest is Africa which is underdeveloped and most of
the developing countries are found in Africa.

Question: Then what are the vision and the objectives of
the current summit conference of the African Union in
Khartoum?

President: The first objective is to reinforce the
African Unity and to bring closer its members and also as
I have said earlier one of the objectives is to
established AFESCO, which would be a vital element in the
African unity.

Question: But do we have that strong political
commitment to achieve all those objectives?

President: Yes we think the political will is there but
of course there are other elements which are outside the
continue and their influence is felt inside the
continent. However efforts are being exerted to bring
the African closer and to contribute in resolving the
pending question among the countries of the continent. I
believe that this would pave the way for moving forwards
and we expect the birth of the African unity in a very
short time if we look into the case of the European union
since its establishment and that it has now reached the
stage of a unified monetary unit.

Question: Mr. President the convening of the summit
coincide with the 50th anniversary of Sudan's

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independence, what is the significance of linking the two
events and what is the Sudanese contribution for the
African continent in fifty years and what has Africa
given to the Sudan?

President: The independence of the Sudan is no doubt one
of the major events in the continent, Sudan being one of
the first African countries to gain independence, well
before the establishment of the organization of the
African unity and Sudan played a major role in backing
the African liberation movements and many of the
movements began their activities from inside the Sudan.
I personally met President Nelson Mandela and the former
President of Namibia Sam Ngoma who all stressed that they
moved out of southern Africa to Sudan and Khartoum
because it was the capital that had gained its
independence and that they found support and each of them
was holding a Sudanese passports and also Sudan provided
assistance to those movements in the diplomatic and
political domains. Sudan is also a founding member of
the organization of African unity OAU. Sudan is also a
founding member of the non-aligned movement. So Sudan
provided assistance to the African liberation movements
be it directly or indirectly via the regional and
international organizations. We also provided assistance
to many of the sons of the African continent and we have
provided training and education to over five thousand
African student in the African international university
in Khartoum and other universities in the country. We
also provide experts for Africa and Sudanese experts have
contributed in so many projects in the African continent,
Sudanese experts established the railways in Zambia and
in Tanzania.

Question: And what has Africa provided for the Sudan?

President: In actual fact we have found every possible
assistance from Africa and Africa stood by our side. It
suffices to cite the peace that has been achieved in
southern Sudan. This peace was achieved as a result of
the IGAD initiative, which was directly supported by the
African Unity.

Question: Mr. President for the percent 45% of the
population in Africa have an income of less than one us
dollar a day and an African child dies in every five
second in Africa, how can Africa face this question of
poverty?

President: This is a serious challenge for the continent
in general, the poverty, the famine and the diseases that
affect African in the north and in the south and in the
west such as malaria and other fatal disease such as AIDS
and the spread of illiteracy all these are some of the
real challenges that face the continent. But the main
cause behind all those problems is the instability inside
those countries and between these countries. So if we
can achieve stability in the continent and if we can
achieve peace and stability inside the countries of the
continent then we would create the conducive atmosphere
for an economic development, a corner stone in resolution
of all those problems.

Question: Mr. President, you said AIDS registered 3,2
million new cases in Africa, while 60% of world AIDS
cases, around 40 million people, are in Africa. You have
also mentioned that the infection rate in some African
countries amounted to 40% among their citizens. As
African Leaders how can you face this lethal disease,
which threatens the continent?

President: As I said the issue of AIDS tops the agenda
of the summit as with how to face it and how to utilize
the experiences of other countries to roll it back. If
we look into the AIDS belt in Africa, we find that the
less infected countries are the countries, which are
religiously and morally committed, while some of such
countries are even AIDS free.

Question: But Mr. President, the disease did spread?

President: AIDS outbreak does constitute a serious
issue, for if 40% of the population are infected, this
means that they pose a threat for the non-infected ones,
particularly through extramarital relations. Such a
matter is probable, a matter, which necessitates an
intensive media campaign to inform the people with the
danger of the disease as well as advanced diagnostic mean
and then how to deal with the infected ones. Of course

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we do not call for discriminating the AIDS infected
people, but we call for dealing with them in a positive
way, which insures that the disease would not be
transmitted through them to non-infected people,
particularly the children who have nothing to do with
this matter. Another matter is the existing medicines.
Are they effective or their effectiveness is questioned,
thou they are expensive? Of course we believe that the
concerned bodies could be processing inexpensive drugs to
save the infected people.

Question: Mr. President, in the recent Hong Kong
conference, the rich countries refused to subsidies from
their agricultural products, a matter, which greatly
disappointed the African States, which depend on the
agricultural products of those rich countries. How can
Africa tackle this problem?

President: This reflects the size of the international
hypocrisy. When the World Trade Organization was
established, of course it was established by the rich
countries, which believed that, through the organization,
they can control the world trade. However, they
discovered that a great number of the citizens, in many
countries, are involved in agriculture, while they are
industrial countries. In America, for instance,
agriculture does not exceed 4% of the US economic
activity, yet the majority of the American people work in
agriculture, and therefore, lifting the support from
agriculture in these countries will have a great negative
effect on them at the internal level, the reason why they
became hesitant in lifting such a support. This
indicates that they may even never fulfill their
commitments, save for after long times, a matter, which
would constitute a blow for the developing countries
whose economies relay on agriculture.

Question: On agriculture?

President: I mean the agricultural countries whose
products are raw. Actually, the refusal to lift the
agricultural subsidies constitutes a blow for all the
producers. Definitely, the countries that depend mainly
on the agricultural activity, while the income of the
country is from taxes on the agricultural activity,
therefore, when agriculture is a particular country is
supported by the state, this country resorts to imposing
taxes on agriculture to be able to manage to steer its
activities.

Question: Then this means there is no competition at the
international market?

President: Of course we can enter these markets, but it
would be with very low prices for our raw exports. At
the same time, we import these same raw materials, after
they are processed, with double their prices. For
instance, we produce cotton, but we import the turban, so
think at what price do we sell cotton and how much do we
pay to buy the turban?

Question: A big contradiction?

President: Big contradiction.

Question: Mr. President, concerning trade, we find that
the size of the African trade has dropped from 6% of the
total world trade in 1980 to 2,2% in 2004. How do you
view the situation within the challenges of the coming
world trade?

President: Many of the problems, such as drought, which
hit many of the African countries, have definitely
affected productivity, and consequently exports. Non-
introduction of modern agricultural technologies also
contributed to the decrease in the production rates.
Many countries, which used to import great amounts
commodities, such as rice, have now started to achieve
high production rates after introducing modern
agricultural technologies. Therefore, we, in Africa,
need to introduce these modern technologies. However,
the introduction of these technologies needs great
potentialities that Africa lacks, the reason why
international organizations, such as FAO and others,
provide assistance for the African states, and because
food production itself became a problem in Africa, as we
watch famines and their destructive impact on the
satellite channels.


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Question: Referring to what you said about petroleum,
the U.S. Vice President mentioned in 2001 that Africa was
the source of American energy, while the US Assistant
Secretary of State also mentioned, in 2001, that the

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African petroleum has become of a strategic interest.
Additionally, the CIA report also indicated that America
would get a quarter of its oil imports from Africa. How
do view this American concern with the African file?

President: Definitely, there would positive sides if
America, with its companies, invested in petroleum in
Africa, but the Americans try to control oil sources, a
matter which poses a threat. True that America obtains
25% of its oil needs from Africa, and presently there is
a petroleum belt that extends from Sudan to Equatorial
Guinea. All these areas are oil rich. Of course people
produce oil to sell, but the attempts of monopoly is what
poses threat against these oil rich countries. We have
an experience with America in this respect, for they
came, explored and discovered the petroleum and specified
its areas and reserves, but they delayed its utilization.

Question: Why did they delay utilization of the Sudanese
oil after they discovered it?

President: They left with the hope to come back
according to their plans and programs, but thanks to God
Almighty, for we have managed to explore and extract our
petroleum with the support of our friends, so we present
our experience as a model for the south-south
cooperation. People used to say that western countries
should come if we are to extract our petroleum, but we
did that with the support of the Chinese, Malaysian,
Indian and Pakistani experiences. Thanks to Allah, the
God Almighty.

(End text)

HUME