AMBASSADOR MEETS MPS VICE MINISTER

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 07 HANOI 001115

SIPDIS

SIPDIS
SENSITIVE

STATE FOR DRL AND EAP/MLS

STATE ALSO FOR DS/IP/EAP, DS/T/ATA AND DS/P/DP

E.O. 12958: N/A
TAGS: PREL PREF PHUM KIRF PGOV ASEC VM
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR MEETS MPS VICE MINISTER

Ref: A) HCMC 466; B) Hanoi 395; C) Hanoi 715; D) Hanoi 667;
E) Hanoi 669

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Summary
--------------


1. (SBU) During a May 9 meeting with Vice Minister of Public
Security Nguyen Van Huong, the Ambassador welcomed progress
in developing cooperative bilateral law enforcement
contacts, but called on MPS to do more; recognized
improvements in the religious freedom situation in Vietnam,
but underlined the need for continued progress, particularly
in northern Vietnam; welcomed MPS's assistance in promoting
positive activity in the Central Highlands, such as family
reunification, fullest possible accounting and international
monitoring of ethnic minority returnees; and, urged the GVN
to release our remaining prisoners of concern. Vice
Minister Huong, who is rumored to be in line to be head of a
new Ministry of State Security, pledged further progress in
religious freedom, but cautioned that those who abuse
religion to advance political goals would be punished;
committed to examining our list of prisoners of concern, but
offered no promises; requested U.S. assistance, including
training and equipment, in APEC protection issues; and,
welcomed U.S. interest in promoting economic development in
the Central Highlands. The Ambassador urged VM Huong to
make clear what exactly MPS needs in the way of support for
APEC. End Summary.

Bilateral Cooperation, Including Law Enforcement
-------------- ---


2. (SBU) The Ambassador, accompanied by the Senior Advisor
and Pol/C, opened his May 9 meeting with Minister of Public
Security Vice Minister Nguyen Van Huong by noting that, in
light of the Ambassador's upcoming travel to the United
States, their discussion is a good chance to go over issues
of mutual interest. One of the biggest tasks ahead of both
countries is our joint effort to wrap up our bilateral WTO
negotiations. There is cause for optimism about this week's
negotiating session, the successful conclusion of which will
set the stage for a vote by Congress on Permanent Normal
Trade Relations (PNTR) for Vietnam, the Ambassador said.
Many of the issues of interest to Members of Congress fall
directly within MPS's purview and have been advanced by the
Vice Minister's efforts.


3. (SBU) The USG hopes to continue to build bilateral
cooperation in the area of security and law enforcement and
expand beyond the progress our two sides have made since
Prime Minister Phan Van Khai's visit to Washington in June
2005, the Ambassador continued. The USG has a strong
interest in issues related to the proliferation of weapons
of mass destruction and their means of delivery,
counternarcotics and counterterrorism. In all these areas,
the USG appreciates the assistance and cooperation we
receive from the GVN, particularly MPS.


4. (SBU) Vietnam's efforts to expand its ties with regional
and global organizations, such as ASEAN, have also been
impressive, the Ambassador said. We are firmly convinced
that Vietnam should play a greater role in the region and
the world, such as peacekeeping and demining activities. We
look forward to Vietnam's participation in PKO as well as
its bid for non-permanent membership on the UN Security
Council. The world's spotlight will be on Vietnam this year
as host of APEC and as a possible new member of the WTO.
The security that MPS has provided for the various APEC
events has so far been excellent, and we look forward to
working with MPS to provide security to senior American
officials, including those participating in the APEC Leaders
Meeting. We have begun discussions with MPS on the
possibility of providing assistance through a seminar on
event planning in preparation for the Leaders Meeting, the
Ambassador noted.


5. (SBU) In the area of bilateral law enforcement
cooperation, we have seen improvements over the past year,
the Ambassador continued. There have been meaningful and
beneficial exchanges of information regarding the case of
Nguyen Huu Chanh. Furthermore, just over a week ago,
Vietnam cooperated with us on the return to the United
States of an individual wanted for drug-related crimes. In
the sensitive and high-profile issue of trafficking in
persons, we have seen an increasing willingness of the GVN
to exchange information and cooperate to address this
terrible phenomenon. The USG is spending a considerable

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amount of money, some USD 34 million, to assist Vietnam in
its fight against HIV/AIDS, and MPS can play a major role in
making our efforts to protect Vietnam's young people as
effective as possible, the Ambassador noted.


6. (SBU) MPS currently has the draft Memorandum of
Understanding for cooperative activities with the Drug
Enforcement Administration (DEA),and we hope to receive
positive comments soon, the Ambassador said. The FBI also
is also interested in a similar MOU once the DEA matter is
resolved. However, in spite of our two sides' progress,
there is still room to take our cooperation to a higher
level and enable us to work on cases in a joint, cooperative
manner. Vietnam's law limits how much can be done in this
regard, and we intend to try to raise this matter with the
National Assembly and would like to work with MPS on this,
the Ambassador said.

Fullest Possible Accounting
--------------


7. (SBU) Many Members of Congress are very interested in the
issue of Fullest Possible Accounting of those missing from
the war, and this humanitarian mission continues to go very
well thanks to MPS's support, the Ambassador continued. We
have resumed regular operations in the Central Highlands and
thus removed what had been a cloud over this issue. There
are a number of other possible cases located in sensitive
areas that off-limits to foreigners, and we welcome efforts
to find technical or other solutions to these issues, such
as allowing a small number of investigators, or using video
cameras, to observe recovery operations performed by the
Vietnamese. We also hope that the GVN will take unilateral
actions whenever possible to recover and return remains and
allow us to close cases, the Ambassador stressed.

Central Highlands: Monitoring, Visas-93, ESF
--------------


8. (SBU) The GVN's handling of the issue of international
access to the Central Highlands to monitor ethnic minority
returnees from Cambodia is an excellent example of how we
can work together to solve difficult problems, the
Ambassador observed. The Ambassador himself has been to Gia
Lai and Kon Tum provinces and met returnees there, and the
cooperation provided by the GVN and local authorities was
outstanding. The key is that returnees are treated in a
humane manner, and that all allegations of mistreatment are
vigorously investigated. This appears to be what is
happening, and it is a good story for Vietnam.


9. (SBU) We are also pleased with the progress we have seen
in our family reunification efforts directed at those
separated by the exodus of ethnic minorities in 2001 and

2004. Passports have been issued to 67 percent of the total
caseload, and each province in the Central Highlands region
is now cooperative, including the previously problematic Dak
Lak Province. Of the total caseload, 47 percent have
already left for the United States. We would not have
achieved this without the assistance of MPS and the personal
intervention of the Vice Minister, and we appreciate it.
Our goal is to wrap this up before the end of the year and
have the remaining 53 percent of the caseload depart for the
United States, the Ambassador said.


10. (SBU) As the Ambassador and the Vice Minister discussed
before, the key to resolving issues in the Central Highlands
is working together to create improved economic conditions
and decrease the possibility of instability. The Ambassador
will meet with Viet Kieu groups in the United States next
week and, as he has done on previous occasions, will state
the USG's complete support for Vietnam's territorial
integrity. The Ambassador will also make clear that the USG
condemns efforts to use violence or force to achieve
political aims in Vietnam. The USG is currently discussing
with the GVN how to implement projects to help ethnic
minorities in the Central Highlands to improve their
economic conditions. The U.S. Congress has provided USD two
million for this purpose. The fact that the Central
Highlands enjoyed a quiet and happy Easter (Ref A) is
evidence of the success of the GVN's policies in this
region, the Ambassador noted.

Religious Freedom
--------------


11. (SBU) U.S. Ambassador-at-Large for International

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Religious Freedom John Hanford and his staff will soon begin
a review process that will culminate later this year in
Country of Particular Concern (CPC) decisions, the
Ambassador continued. As Ambassador Hanford told the Vice
Minister in February (Ref B),the USG fully recognizes that
Vietnam has made progress, particularly in freeing religious
prisoners and banning forced renunciations. However, there
are those in the United States who believe a case can still
be made for re-designating Vietnam as a CPC. We need strong
evidence that Vietnam is making progress in order to
convince those who are opposed to lifting CPC, particularly
among Members of Congress. We still see problems in the
Northwest Highlands and across northern Vietnam. During the
Ambassador's visit to Son La Province several months ago
(Ref C),both local Party and government leaders said that
there were no religious believers in Son La, which we know
is not correct.


12. (SBU) Furthermore, we have not been able to see any
evidence that the GVN takes action against those officials
or police who abuse religious believers, the Ambassador
said. The next several months will be critical in balancing
the good news with the bad news in the religious freedom
story in Vietnam as Ambassador Hanford prepares his views
for the Secretary and the President. A concerted GVN effort
to register churches and congregations in the north and the
Central Highlands would go a long way in silencing Vietnam's
critics on this issue. Many congregations have turned in
registration applications, but nothing has happened. These
congregations are allowed to worship quietly, but not
openly, and this must change, the Ambassador stressed.

Human Rights Issues: Prison Visits, Prisoners of Concern
-------------- --------------


13. (SBU) Building on our successful Human Rights Dialogue
in February (Refs D and E),we received permission to visit
two prisons in Binh Phuoc and Dong Nai provinces, near HCMC
(Note: The visits took place on May 9-10 and will be
reported septel. End Note.) This was welcome news, and we
appreciate the efforts of all those who made it possible,
the Ambassador said. We hope that Vietnam will extend an
invitation to the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detentions,
as well.


14. (SBU) We are also well aware of and grateful for the
role the MPS and the Vice Minister himself played in the
release over the past year of a number of our prisoners of
concern. Many of the prisoners on the list that the
Ambassador gave to the Vice Minister in June 2005 have been
released, and the number of individuals of concern to the
USG has been reduced to a handful. However, this handful
still attracts the attention of many in the United States
and the international community. These individuals are not
a threat to Vietnam, except that their continued confinement
causes public relations damage to Vietnam. (Note: At this
point, the Ambassador handed VM Huong an updated version of
the list of prisoners and individuals facing restrictions
that DRL A/S Lowenkron presented during the Human Rights
Dialogue. End Note.) Among our prisoners of concern are
Pham Hong Son and Nguyen Vu Binh, whose cases have high
visibility in the United States and elsewhere around the
world. The USG has no desire to interfere in the internal
affairs of the GVN, but we have to advise that the
perception of many around the world is that these two
individuals are being held for political reasons and not the
reasons the GVN advances. In preparation for the PNTR vote,
it would be a boon to acquiring the needed votes if the GVN
made a gesture under its laws and released these
individuals, the Ambassador said.


15. (SBU) After a brief interlude, the Ambassador noted that
an Embassy officer had recently traveled to Lao Cai and Ha
Giang provinces (septel) to get the ground truth about the
religious freedom situation there. While the report from
this trip is basically positive, issues of concern remain.
This is how it always will be, as no country is perfect,
including the United States. However, the key is the extent
to which the GVN is willing to be open and provide us with
information, giving us the opportunity to share this
information with Washington.

VM Huong responds
--------------


16. (SBU) VM Huong noted that the GVN often provides
information to the United States on a number of issues, and

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also takes steps to allow U.S. officials to visit localities
to see things for themselves. In the past, this was not
always possible because the unfortunate history between our
two countries did not always make it safe for visiting
Americans. But now things are different, and an American
can safely travel anywhere in Vietnam and meet local
citizenry.


17. (SBU) In any society, there will be those who say good
things and those who say bad things, the Vice Minister
continued. The case of Father Nguyen Van Ly is a good
example. The USG urged the GVN to release him, but it seems
that he is an "opportunist": when he was in prison, he
criticized the U.S. Congress. Now that he is out, he is
criticizing the GVN. "We know what kind of man he is," VM
Huong said. Based on discussions with Ambassador Hanford
and others, Vietnam released Father Ly, thinking that this
would allow Vietnam to be removed from the CPC list. But,
Ambassador Hanford could not persuade the U.S. Congress, and
Vietnam remains a CPC. The GVN believed that when it
released Father Ly he would say the opposite of what he said
in prison, and this is what happened. Father Ly's
activities are political, not religious. He says what
people want to hear. Vietnam does not fear him, VM Huong
asserted.

Law Enforcement Cooperation
--------------


18. (SBU) VM Huong agreed that U.S.-Vietnam law enforcement
cooperation is effective and fruitful. Vietnam highly
regards the sharing of information and experiences and other
forms of cooperative activities. USG-provided capacity-
building lessons and other forms of training have many
tactical similarities to those of the MPS. Vietnam can also
contribute supplemental content to those lessons. For
example, in Vietnam, the Government has very strict control
of local areas. Each resident can act as a security
officer. Therefore, it is very difficult for a stranger
from outside to intrude because he would be immediately
detected, the Vice Minister noted.

Religious Freedom
--------------


19. (SBU) Vietnam's socio-economic development efforts will
increase democracy in Vietnam, VM Huong continued.
Religious freedom and other personal freedoms will
increasingly be respected. Vietnam's legal framework on
religion will also continue to be improved. The USG has
said that certain people do not yet have religious freedom,
and this is correct. This is particularly true for
Protestantism because this is a new religion only recently
introduced to Vietnam, especially in the Northwest
Highlands. The proselytizing of this religion was "sneaky
and not in the open." Therefore, the residents of a certain
village did not understand what a Protestant believer was
following and did not know that it was Protestantism. Some
thus considered it as a "heresy," and there were clashes.
So it is correct when provincial leaders say that "there are
no religious followers in our area," but it is also correct
when those people say "we are religious followers." Thus,
it can be reported one way or the other, VM Huong argued.


20. (SBU) When the new Ordinance on Belief and Religion is
widely disseminated, religious freedom will be ensured, VM
Huong continued. It took four to five years for the Central
Highlands to have today's improvements. For example, there
are a number of new boards of deacons that were set up in
Dak Lak Province in February. It will take time for Vietnam
to have similar improvements in the Northwest Highlands, but
it will be faster than in the Central Highlands because
Vietnam has gained experience from there. In June, the GVN
will hold a conference for the whole northern region to help
local officials grasp thoroughly the GVN's policy on
religion. The trend for religious freedom, and particularly
for Protestantism, is good, the Vice Minister predicted.


21. (SBU) Long-established religions like Buddhism or
Catholicism are well developed. For example, every year the
Buddha's birthday is widely celebrated. When a nation with
a population of 80 million has 20 million religious
followers, it is not true that its Government causes
difficulties for religious belief. Generally speaking, the
Vietnamese people are free to follow religions. "When
considering this issue, I hope that you take an overall view
of all religions, and not just look at Protestantism, when

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you make your assessment," VM Huong requested. The GVN
would welcome the USG's realistic view of the current
religious situation in Vietnam.

WTO, Bilateral Relations
--------------


22. (SBU) The Vice Minister also welcomed the U.S.-Vietnam
negotiations on WTO accession. Vietnam wishes to integrate
itself into the world. If the economy develops well, the
Vietnamese people's rights will improve. Given the current
situation in the region and in the world, Vietnam must not
be a weak nation, but a strong one. Vietnam's foreign
policy is to strengthen economic and multi-faceted relations
with the United States to the benefit of both countries,
because there are many commonalities in the interests and
goals of both the United States and Vietnam. In the past,
the two countries missed many opportunities to develop their
ties. Now the current generation should make contributions
to the development of bilateral relations, VM Huong said.


23. (SBU) The things that have "entangled us here are only
secondary, and we will surely solve them in the future," the
Vice Minister continued. The two countries' strategic
goals, which were discussed at the meeting that VM Huong and
the Ambassador also attended between the Prime Minister and
President Bush, have been confirmed. There are still many
issues on which the United States and Vietnam should have a
better mutual understanding. The results of bilateral
cooperation create good conditions for both sides to
strengthen their relations in the future. So far, the two
countries have not had any economic cooperation programs
that are commensurate with the relationship's potential. If
President Bush visits Vietnam, there is no appropriate
"economic program" for him to visit. Even a Presidential
visit to a Fullest Possible Accounting site may not be
appropriate because it is not the "right scale."

APEC and Protection Issues
--------------


24. (SBU) An issue of concern to the Vice Minister is
Vietnam's hosting of APEC. The GVN understands that this is
not a normal conference, but a meeting of world leaders.
Therefore, to securely protect them is Vietnam's primary
goal. Vietnam has completed making APEC protection plans,
and the Vice Minister has the prime responsibility to
provide protection and security for the APEC meeting. MPS
will mobilize the highest number of security forces for
APEC, and it has exchanged experience with many countries.
MPS will also soon invite its South Korean colleagues to
exchange their experiences on the 13th APEC meeting in
Busan. Of course, MPS will also discuss protection issues
with is U.S. counterparts. Because Vietnam has never hosted
such an event, it has not been able to anticipate all of the
possible scenarios. MPS will increase its coordination and
wishes to cooperate with U.S. law enforcement agencies in
providing protection at the APEC meeting in Vietnam.


25. (SBU) As President Bush told Prime Minister Khai, "the
United States will support Vietnam in protecting the APEC
meeting." But, "frankly speaking, our cooperation is still
too modest, not strong enough," VM Huong said. The
Ambassador responded that the important thing is for MPS to
articulate the issues before it and make clear the kind of
help it will need. The events planning seminar previously
mentioned will provide benefits in terms of strengthening
Vietnam's protection efforts. The Department hopes to hold
this seminar in September, and our Diplomatic Security
Bureau will have a major role, the Ambassador said.


26. (SBU) VM Huong agreed that we have to start now,
particularly in the collection of information on security
threats. Vietnam needs equipment that can identify
criminals and terrorists when they enter Vietnam, even in
disguise. There are still many things for the United States
and Vietnam to discuss. For example, vehicles for
protection personnel will be needed in large numbers. VM
Huong explained that he told his staff to calculate the
number of Ford vehicles that MPS will need. Vietnam does
not want to import vehicles from outside, because these
vehicles are not fully under MPS's control. MPS wants
protection personnel to have vehicles that allow for
effective operation, and VM Huong asked for the Ambassador's
help in approaching Ford.


27. (SBU) The Ambassador replied that Ford in Vietnam is

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trying to deal with the policy changes surrounding the
import of used vehicles that are undercutting Ford's
investment here. VM Huong noted that Vietnam's tax policy
will take care of this issue, and continued by saying that
MPS also wants to have bomb-detection equipment, but it is
difficult to import this from the United States. The
Ambassador reiterated that MPS needs to let us know its
specific needs, and we will do everything possible to
accelerate the processing time. However, time is short, and
we need to move quickly, the Ambassador stressed.

Visas-93
--------------


28. (SBU) Turning to other matters the Ambassador raised, VM
Huong said that issues of concern to the United States are
"also of concern to me, but perhaps they are not problems."
For those who want to depart for the United States (under
the Visas-93 Program),the GVN will issue passports to them.
The problem is whether the USG will interview them and allow
them to immigrate. MPS has told these individuals to
prepare money to pay fees, which the Ambassador noted was
not necessary because there are no fees. The Ambassador
agreed that we do not have problems. Instead, we have
issues that we are working on constructively. Although we
cannot change everything in one day, and resolving our
concerns will take time, there is nothing that we cannot
handle.


29. (SBU) Returning to the subject of Visas-93, VM Huong
said that the difficulty has to do with the local people.
Those who will depart think that they will have a better
life, and they encourage others to flee the country
illegally. Vietnam's policy is not to punish those who have
been duped into fleeing the country, but rather the
traffickers and others who facilitate this.

Central Highlands
--------------


30. (SBU) VM Huong welcomed projects to raise the standard
of living of those in the Central Highlands. The only
concern is to ensure that charitable work is not abused to
instigate unrest among ethnic minorities. Regarding the USD
two million dollars, Vietnam requests that the United States
work directly with the provinces in need so that the money
can be efficiently used. In terms of Fullest Possible
Accounting, for 18 years the United States and Vietnam have
enjoyed very good cooperation, and the Vice Minister urged
the Ambassador to tell Congress about Vietnam's humanitarian
policies in this area. Noting that he himself worked on
this issue years ago, VM Huong said that he would do what he
could to bring the program to a successful conclusion.
Vietnam hopes that the USG will take into account the
conditions in Vietnam and provide assistance to those
Vietnamese veterans who have difficult lives. Furthermore,
as Prime Minister Khai said to President Bush, Vietnam hopes
for greater U.S. assistance in addressing the legacies of
the war.

Religious Freedom
--------------


31. (SBU) VM Huong reiterated his belief that the situation
for religious believers would soon improve further.
"Ambassador Hanford has nothing to worry about," he said,
pledging to provide more information which will show
Vietnam's good progress in this area.

Prison Visits, Prisoners of Concern
--------------


32. (SBU) The Vice Minister noted that the GVN had worked
out a very special policy to allow U.S. diplomats to visit
the two prisons. "No place else allows foreign officials to
visit their prisons," VM Huong asserted. The Ambassador
rejoined that prison visits take place elsewhere in the
world, and foreign officials can visit American prisons.
The greater transparency and openness that Vietnam shows,
the more that people will believe Vietnam's assertions, the
Ambassador stressed.


33. (SBU) VFM Huong pledged to examine the list of prisoners
of concern provided by the Ambassador, noting that he is
familiar with the cases of Pham Hong Son and Nguyen Vu Binh.
Outsiders claim that these two men are political prisoners,
but they were tried under the law and their sentences are

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correct. "There are no differences in how they were
treated," the Vice Minister said. Even high-ranking Party
members, including those from MPS like LtGen Bui Quoc Huy,
were imprisoned when they had committed offenses. The
prisoners of concern will be released when they are
qualified to be released. The GVN will consider their
cases, but is "not afraid of any threats of pressure." If
consideration of their releases is not in accordance with
the law, there will be problems, VM Huong said.


34. (SBU) In terms of the persons facing restrictions, such
as Thich Quang Do and Father Ly, Huong said he is very
familiar with them. These individuals have "mental
problems" and want to form political parties within their
religions. Because they are old, "I don't want to arrest
them," VM Huong said. However, if they violate the law,
they will be punished. The monks affiliated with the
Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam cause a lot of trouble.
They even have quarrels among themselves, such as that
between Thich Tue Sy and Thich Quang Do. Clearly, Vo Van Ai
and other "outside agitators" are providing information to
certain Members of Congress and others. Should the
Ambassador meet Thich Quang Do, "please tell him that he can
practice religious services, but they must be in accordance
with the law," the Vice Minister requested, noting that such
a message from the Ambassador would have great impact.
Dealing with these individuals, and others who try to set
themselves on fire, is difficult. "If you were in my place,
you would feel the same," Huong said. Religious activity is
subject to the law, and the law says clearly that abuse of
religious activities for political aims will get you
arrested.


35. (SBU) The Ambassador said that the USG has made clear
that we are adamantly opposed to those who set themselves on
fire, and we have told Hoa Hao adherents that this is wrong.
The Ambassador suggested that VM Huong deal with these
individuals as little as possible. They are no threat to
the State or the Party. Responding to an earlier question
by the Vice Minister regarding the future of the Party, the
Ambassador said that the key to the Party's future success
will be the extent to which it can learn to tolerate the
views and opinions of all in society, including those on our
lists of concern. Some people will say foolish things, but
all should have the space to express their views. This is a
prerequisite of a true democracy. This will take time, and
someday hopefully political freedom will exist. This
freedom will not be a threat to the Party.


36. (SBU) The conference in June that will educate officials
in the north is welcome news, the Ambassador continued. We
hope that Ambassador Hanford will be able to return to
Vietnam soon to further assess the religious freedom
situation here. The more information the GVN can provide on
local conditions, the better. While true that changes in
the north will take time, evidence of movement in the right
direction is important, the Ambassador stressed.

Comment
--------------


37. (SBU) Although VM Huong refused to speculate on his
future in light of the rumored split of MPS into two
ministries -- one responsible for the police and the other
for State security -- our contacts have indicated that Huong
is in line to be minister in a new Ministry of State
Security (with Vice Minister Le The Tiem poised to take over
as Minister of Police). VM Huong flatly denied that current
Minister of Public Security Le Hong Anh would assume one of
Vietnam's three Deputy Prime Ministerships. We have heard
that Le Hong Anh will instead assume control of an until now
largely inactive national security council or committee that
oversees both the military and security services. End
comment.

MARINE