AMBASSADOR MEETS MPS VICE MINISTER

UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 07 HANOI 001115 SIPDIS SIPDIS SENSITIVE STATE FOR DRL AND EAP/MLS STATE ALSO FOR DS/IP/EAP, DS/T/ATA AND DS/P/DP E.O. 12958: N/A TAGS: PREL PREF PHUM KIRF PGOV ASEC VM SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR MEETS MPS VICE MINISTER Ref: A) HCMC 466; B) Hanoi 395; C) Hanoi 715; D) Hanoi 667; E) Hanoi 669 HANOI 00001115 001.2 OF 007 Summary -------------- ¶1. (SBU) During a May 9 meeting with Vice Minister of Public Security Nguyen Van Huong, the Ambassador welcomed progress in developing cooperative bilateral law enforcement contacts, but called on MPS to do more; recognized improvements in the religious freedom situation in Vietnam, but underlined the need for continued progress, particularly in northern Vietnam; welcomed MPS's assistance in promoting positive activity in the Central Highlands, such as family reunification, fullest possible accounting and international monitoring of ethnic minority returnees; and, urged the GVN to release our remaining prisoners of concern. Vice Minister Huong, who is rumored to be in line to be head of a new Ministry of State Security, pledged further progress in religious freedom, but cautioned that those who abuse religion to advance political goals would be punished; committed to examining our list of prisoners of concern, but offered no promises; requested U.S. assistance, including training and equipment, in APEC protection issues; and, welcomed U.S. interest in promoting economic development in the Central Highlands. The Ambassador urged VM Huong to make clear what exactly MPS needs in the way of support for APEC. End Summary. Bilateral Cooperation, Including Law Enforcement -------------- --- ¶2. (SBU) The Ambassador, accompanied by the Senior Advisor and Pol/C, opened his May 9 meeting with Minister of Public Security Vice Minister Nguyen Van Huong by noting that, in light of the Ambassador's upcoming travel to the United States, their discussion is a good chance to go over issues of mutual interest. One of the biggest tasks ahead of both countries is our joint effort to wrap up our bilateral WTO negotiations. There is cause for optimism about this week's negotiating session, the successful conclusion of which will set the stage for a vote by Congress on Permanent Normal Trade Relations (PNTR) for Vietnam, the Ambassador said. Many of the issues of interest to Members of Congress fall directly within MPS's purview and have been advanced by the Vice Minister's efforts. �0A;¶3. (SBU) The USG hopes to continue to build bilateral cooperation in the area of security and law enforcement and expand beyond the progress our two sides have made since Prime Minister Phan Van Khai's visit to Washington in June 2005, the Ambassador continued. The USG has a strong interest in issues related to the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and their means of delivery, counternarcotics and counterterrorism. In all these areas, the USG appreciates the assistance and cooperation we receive from the GVN, particularly MPS. ¶4. (SBU) Vietnam's efforts to expand its ties with regional and global organizations, such as ASEAN, have also been impressive, the Ambassador said. We are firmly convinced that Vietnam should play a greater role in the region and the world, such as peacekeeping and demining activities. We look forward to Vietnam's participation in PKO as well as its bid for non-permanent membership on the UN Security Council. The world's spotlight will be on Vietnam this year as host of APEC and as a possible new member of the WTO. The security that MPS has provided for the various APEC events has so far been excellent, and we look forward to working with MPS to provide security to senior American officials, including those participating in the APEC Leaders Meeting. We have begun discussions with MPS on the possibility of providing assistance through a seminar on event planning in preparation for the Leaders Meeting, the Ambassador noted. ¶5. (SBU) In the area of bilateral law enforcement cooperation, we have seen improvements over the past year, the Ambassador continued. There have been meaningful and beneficial exchanges of information regarding the case of Nguyen Huu Chanh. Furthermore, just over a week ago, Vietnam cooperated with us on the return to the United States of an individual wanted for drug-related crimes. In the sensitive and high-profile issue of trafficking in persons, we have seen an increasing willingness of the GVN to exchange information and cooperate to address this terrible phenomenon. The USG is spending a considerable HANOI 00001115 002.2 OF 007 amount of money, some USD 34 million, to assist Vietnam in its fight against HIV/AIDS, and MPS can play a major role in making our efforts to protect Vietnam's young people as effective as possible, the Ambassador noted. ¶6. (SBU) MPS currently has the draft Memorandum of Understanding for cooperative activities with the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA),and we hope to receive positive comments soon, the Ambassador said. The FBI also is also interested in a similar MOU once the DEA matter is resolved. However, in spite of our two sides' progress, there is still room to take our cooperation to a higher level and enable us to work on cases in a joint, cooperative manner. Vietnam's law limits how much can be done in this regard, and we intend to try to raise this matter with the National Assembly and would like to work with MPS on this, the Ambassador said. Fullest Possible Accounting -------------- ¶7. (SBU) Many Members of Congress are very interested in the issue of Fullest Possible Accounting of those missing from the war, and this humanitarian mission continues to go very well thanks to MPS's support, the Ambassador continued. We have resumed regular operations in the Central Highlands and thus removed what had been a cloud over this issue. There are a number of other possible cases located in sensitive areas that off-limits to foreigners, and we welcome efforts to find technical or other solutions to these issues, such as allowing a small number of investigators, or using video cameras, to observe recovery operations performed by the Vietnamese. We also hope that the GVN will take unilateral actions whenever possible to recover and return remains and allow us to close cases, the Ambassador stressed. Central Highlands: Monitoring, Visas-93, ESF -------------- ¶8. (SBU) The GVN's handling of the issue of international access to the Central Highlands to monitor ethnic minority returnees from Cambodia is an excellent example of how we can work together to solve difficult problems, the Ambassador observed. The Ambassador himself has been to Gia Lai and Kon Tum provinces and met returnees there, and the cooperation provided by the GVN and local authorities was outstanding. The key is that returnees are treated in a humane manner, and that all allegations of mistreatment are vigorously investigated. This appears to be what is happening, and it is a good story for Vietnam. ¶9. (SBU) We are also pleased with the progress we have seen in our family reunification efforts directed at those separated by the exodus of ethnic minorities in 2001 and ¶2004. Passports have been issued to 67 percent of the total caseload, and each province in the Central Highlands region is now cooperative, including the previously problematic Dak Lak Province. Of the total caseload, 47 percent have already left for the United States. We would not have achieved this without the assistance of MPS and the personal intervention of the Vice Minister, and we appreciate it. Our goal is to wrap this up before the end of the year and have the remaining 53 percent of the caseload depart for the United States, the Ambassador said. ¶10. (SBU) As the Ambassador and the Vice Minister discussed before, the key to resolving issues in the Central Highlands is working together to create improved economic conditions and decrease the possibility of instability. The Ambassador will meet with Viet Kieu groups in the United States next week and, as he has done on previous occasions, will state the USG's complete support for Vietnam's territorial integrity. The Ambassador will also make clear that the USG condemns efforts to use violence or force to achieve political aims in Vietnam. The USG is currently discussing with the GVN how to implement projects to help ethnic minorities in the Central Highlands to improve their economic conditions. The U.S. Congress has provided USD two million for this purpose. The fact that the Central Highlands enjoyed a quiet and happy Easter (Ref A) is evidence of the success of the GVN's policies in this region, the Ambassador noted. Religious Freedom -------------- ¶11. (SBU) U.S. Ambassador-at-Large for International HANOI 00001115 003.2 OF 007 Religious Freedom John Hanford and his staff will soon begin a review process that will culminate later this year in Country of Particular Concern (CPC) decisions, the Ambassador continued. As Ambassador Hanford told the Vice Minister in February (Ref B),the USG fully recognizes that Vietnam has made progress, particularly in freeing religious prisoners and banning forced renunciations. However, there are those in the United States who believe a case can still be made for re-designating Vietnam as a CPC. We need strong evidence that Vietnam is making progress in order to convince those who are opposed to lifting CPC, particularly among Members of Congress. We still see problems in the Northwest Highlands and across northern Vietnam. During the Ambassador's visit to Son La Province several months ago (Ref C),both local Party and government leaders said that there were no religious believers in Son La, which we know is not correct. ¶12. (SBU) Furthermore, we have not been able to see any evidence that the GVN takes action against those officials or police who abuse religious believers, the Ambassador said. The next several months will be critical in balancing the good news with the bad news in the religious freedom story in Vietnam as Ambassador Hanford prepares his views for the Secretary and the President. A concerted GVN effort to register churches and congregations in the north and the Central Highlands would go a long way in silencing Vietnam's critics on this issue. Many congregations have turned in registration applications, but nothing has happened. These congregations are allowed to worship quietly, but not openly, and this must change, the Ambassador stressed. Human Rights Issues: Prison Visits, Prisoners of Concern -------------- -------------- ¶13. (SBU) Building on our successful Human Rights Dialogue in February (Refs D and E),we received permission to visit two prisons in Binh Phuoc and Dong Nai provinces, near HCMC (Note: The visits took place on May 9-10 and will be reported septel. End Note.) This was welcome news, and we appreciate the efforts of all those who made it possible, the Ambassador said. We hope that Vietnam will extend an invitation to the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detentions, as well. ¶14. (SBU) We are also well aware of and grateful for the role the MPS and the Vice Minister himself played in the release over the past year of a number of our prisoners of concern. Many of the prisoners on the list that the Ambassador gave to the Vice Minister in June 2005 have been released, and the number of individuals of concern to the USG has been reduced to a handful. However, this handful still attracts the attention of many in the United States and the international community. These individuals are not a threat to Vietnam, except that their continued confinement causes public relations damage to Vietnam. (Note: At this point, the Ambassador handed VM Huong an updated version of the list of prisoners and individuals facing restrictions that DRL A/S Lowenkron presented during the Human Rights Dialogue. End Note.) Among our prisoners of concern are Pham Hong Son and Nguyen Vu Binh, whose cases have high visibility in the United States and elsewhere around the world. The USG has no desire to interfere in the internal affairs of the GVN, but we have to advise that the perception of many around the world is that these two individuals are being held for political reasons and not the reasons the GVN advances. In preparation for the PNTR vote, it would be a boon to acquiring the needed votes if the GVN made a gesture under its laws and released these individuals, the Ambassador said. ¶15. (SBU) After a brief interlude, the Ambassador noted that an Embassy officer had recently traveled to Lao Cai and Ha Giang provinces (septel) to get the ground truth about the religious freedom situation there. While the report from this trip is basically positive, issues of concern remain. This is how it always will be, as no country is perfect, including the United States. However, the key is the extent to which the GVN is willing to be open and provide us with information, giving us the opportunity to share this information with Washington. VM Huong responds -------------- ¶16. (SBU) VM Huong noted that the GVN often provides information to the United States on a number of issues, and HANOI 00001115 004.2 OF 007 also takes steps to allow U.S. officials to visit localities to see things for themselves. In the past, this was not always possible because the unfortunate history between our two countries did not always make it safe for visiting Americans. But now things are different, and an American can safely travel anywhere in Vietnam and meet local citizenry. ¶17. (SBU) In any society, there will be those who say good things and those who say bad things, the Vice Minister continued. The case of Father Nguyen Van Ly is a good example. The USG urged the GVN to release him, but it seems that he is an "opportunist": when he was in prison, he criticized the U.S. Congress. Now that he is out, he is criticizing the GVN. "We know what kind of man he is," VM Huong said. Based on discussions with Ambassador Hanford and others, Vietnam released Father Ly, thinking that this would allow Vietnam to be removed from the CPC list. But, Ambassador Hanford could not persuade the U.S. Congress, and Vietnam remains a CPC. The GVN believed that when it released Father Ly he would say the opposite of what he said in prison, and this is what happened. Father Ly's activities are political, not religious. He says what people want to hear. Vietnam does not fear him, VM Huong asserted. Law Enforcement Cooperation -------------- ¶18. (SBU) VM Huong agreed that U.S.-Vietnam law enforcement cooperation is effective and fruitful. Vietnam highly regards the sharing of information and experiences and other forms of cooperative activities. USG-provided capacity- building lessons and other forms of training have many tactical similarities to those of the MPS. Vietnam can also contribute supplemental content to those lessons. For example, in Vietnam, the Government has very strict control of local areas. Each resident can act as a security officer. Therefore, it is very difficult for a stranger from outside to intrude because he would be immediately detected, the Vice Minister noted. Religious Freedom -------------- ¶19. (SBU) Vietnam's socio-economic development efforts will increase democracy in Vietnam, VM Huong continued. Religious freedom and other personal freedoms will increasingly be respected. Vietnam's legal framework on religion will also continue to be improved. The USG has said that certain people do not yet have religious freedom, and this is correct. This is particularly true for Protestantism because this is a new religion only recently introduced to Vietnam, especially in the Northwest Highlands. The proselytizing of this religion was "sneaky and not in the open." Therefore, the residents of a certain village did not understand what a Protestant believer was following and did not know that it was Protestantism. Some thus considered it as a "heresy," and there were clashes. So it is correct when provincial leaders say that "there are no religious followers in our area," but it is also correct when those people say "we are religious followers." Thus, it can be reported one way or the other, VM Huong argued. ¶20. (SBU) When the new Ordinance on Belief and Religion is widely disseminated, religious freedom will be ensured, VM Huong continued. It took four to five years for the Central Highlands to have today's improvements. For example, there are a number of new boards of deacons that were set up in Dak Lak Province in February. It will take time for Vietnam to have similar improvements in the Northwest Highlands, but it will be faster than in the Central Highlands because Vietnam has gained experience from there. In June, the GVN will hold a conference for the whole northern region to help local officials grasp thoroughly the GVN's policy on religion. The trend for religious freedom, and particularly for Protestantism, is good, the Vice Minister predicted. ¶21. (SBU) Long-established religions like Buddhism or Catholicism are well developed. For example, every year the Buddha's birthday is widely celebrated. When a nation with a population of 80 million has 20 million religious followers, it is not true that its Government causes difficulties for religious belief. Generally speaking, the Vietnamese people are free to follow religions. "When considering this issue, I hope that you take an overall view of all religions, and not just look at Protestantism, when HANOI 00001115 005.2 OF 007 you make your assessment," VM Huong requested. The GVN would welcome the USG's realistic view of the current religious situation in Vietnam. WTO, Bilateral Relations -------------- ¶22. (SBU) The Vice Minister also welcomed the U.S.-Vietnam negotiations on WTO accession. Vietnam wishes to integrate itself into the world. If the economy develops well, the Vietnamese people's rights will improve. Given the current situation in the region and in the world, Vietnam must not be a weak nation, but a strong one. Vietnam's foreign policy is to strengthen economic and multi-faceted relations with the United States to the benefit of both countries, because there are many commonalities in the interests and goals of both the United States and Vietnam. In the past, the two countries missed many opportunities to develop their ties. Now the current generation should make contributions to the development of bilateral relations, VM Huong said. ¶23. (SBU) The things that have "entangled us here are only secondary, and we will surely solve them in the future," the Vice Minister continued. The two countries' strategic goals, which were discussed at the meeting that VM Huong and the Ambassador also attended between the Prime Minister and President Bush, have been confirmed. There are still many issues on which the United States and Vietnam should have a better mutual understanding. The results of bilateral cooperation create good conditions for both sides to strengthen their relations in the future. So far, the two countries have not had any economic cooperation programs that are commensurate with the relationship's potential. If President Bush visits Vietnam, there is no appropriate "economic program" for him to visit. Even a Presidential visit to a Fullest Possible Accounting site may not be appropriate because it is not the "right scale." APEC and Protection Issues -------------- ¶24. (SBU) An issue of concern to the Vice Minister is Vietnam's hosting of APEC. The GVN understands that this is not a normal conference, but a meeting of world leaders. Therefore, to securely protect them is Vietnam's primary goal. Vietnam has completed making APEC protection plans, and the Vice Minister has the prime responsibility to provide protection and security for the APEC meeting. MPS will mobilize the highest number of security forces for APEC, and it has exchanged experience with many countries. MPS will also soon invite its South Korean colleagues to exchange their experiences on the 13th APEC meeting in Busan. Of course, MPS will also discuss protection issues with is U.S. counterparts. Because Vietnam has never hosted such an event, it has not been able to anticipate all of the possible scenarios. MPS will increase its coordination and wishes to cooperate with U.S. law enforcement agencies in providing protection at the APEC meeting in Vietnam. ¶25. (SBU) As President Bush told Prime Minister Khai, "the United States will support Vietnam in protecting the APEC meeting." But, "frankly speaking, our cooperation is still too modest, not strong enough," VM Huong said. The Ambassador responded that the important thing is for MPS to articulate the issues before it and make clear the kind of help it will need. The events planning seminar previously mentioned will provide benefits in terms of strengthening Vietnam's protection efforts. The Department hopes to hold this seminar in September, and our Diplomatic Security Bureau will have a major role, the Ambassador said. ¶26. (SBU) VM Huong agreed that we have to start now, particularly in the collection of information on security threats. Vietnam needs equipment that can identify criminals and terrorists when they enter Vietnam, even in disguise. There are still many things for the United States and Vietnam to discuss. For example, vehicles for protection personnel will be needed in large numbers. VM Huong explained that he told his staff to calculate the number of Ford vehicles that MPS will need. Vietnam does not want to import vehicles from outside, because these vehicles are not fully under MPS's control. MPS wants protection personnel to have vehicles that allow for effective operation, and VM Huong asked for the Ambassador's help in approaching Ford. ¶27. (SBU) The Ambassador replied that Ford in Vietnam is HANOI 00001115 006.2 OF 007 trying to deal with the policy changes surrounding the import of used vehicles that are undercutting Ford's investment here. VM Huong noted that Vietnam's tax policy will take care of this issue, and continued by saying that MPS also wants to have bomb-detection equipment, but it is difficult to import this from the United States. The Ambassador reiterated that MPS needs to let us know its specific needs, and we will do everything possible to accelerate the processing time. However, time is short, and we need to move quickly, the Ambassador stressed. Visas-93 -------------- ¶28. (SBU) Turning to other matters the Ambassador raised, VM Huong said that issues of concern to the United States are "also of concern to me, but perhaps they are not problems." For those who want to depart for the United States (under the Visas-93 Program),the GVN will issue passports to them. The problem is whether the USG will interview them and allow them to immigrate. MPS has told these individuals to prepare money to pay fees, which the Ambassador noted was not necessary because there are no fees. The Ambassador agreed that we do not have problems. Instead, we have issues that we are working on constructively. Although we cannot change everything in one day, and resolving our concerns will take time, there is nothing that we cannot handle. ¶29. (SBU) Returning to the subject of Visas-93, VM Huong said that the difficulty has to do with the local people. Those who will depart think that they will have a better life, and they encourage others to flee the country illegally. Vietnam's policy is not to punish those who have been duped into fleeing the country, but rather the traffickers and others who facilitate this. Central Highlands -------------- ¶30. (SBU) VM Huong welcomed projects to raise the standard of living of those in the Central Highlands. The only concern is to ensure that charitable work is not abused to instigate unrest among ethnic minorities. Regarding the USD two million dollars, Vietnam requests that the United States work directly with the provinces in need so that the money can be efficiently used. In terms of Fullest Possible Accounting, for 18 years the United States and Vietnam have enjoyed very good cooperation, and the Vice Minister urged the Ambassador to tell Congress about Vietnam's humanitarian policies in this area. Noting that he himself worked on this issue years ago, VM Huong said that he would do what he could to bring the program to a successful conclusion. Vietnam hopes that the USG will take into account the conditions in Vietnam and provide assistance to those Vietnamese veterans who have difficult lives. Furthermore, as Prime Minister Khai said to President Bush, Vietnam hopes for greater U.S. assistance in addressing the legacies of the war. Religious Freedom -------------- ¶31. (SBU) VM Huong reiterated his belief that the situation for religious believers would soon improve further. "Ambassador Hanford has nothing to worry about," he said, pledging to provide more information which will show Vietnam's good progress in this area. Prison Visits, Prisoners of Concern -------------- ¶32. (SBU) The Vice Minister noted that the GVN had worked out a very special policy to allow U.S. diplomats to visit the two prisons. "No place else allows foreign officials to visit their prisons," VM Huong asserted. The Ambassador rejoined that prison visits take place elsewhere in the world, and foreign officials can visit American prisons. The greater transparency and openness that Vietnam shows, the more that people will believe Vietnam's assertions, the Ambassador stressed. ¶33. (SBU) VFM Huong pledged to examine the list of prisoners of concern provided by the Ambassador, noting that he is familiar with the cases of Pham Hong Son and Nguyen Vu Binh. Outsiders claim that these two men are political prisoners, but they were tried under the law and their sentences are HANOI 00001115 007.2 OF 007 correct. "There are no differences in how they were treated," the Vice Minister said. Even high-ranking Party members, including those from MPS like LtGen Bui Quoc Huy, were imprisoned when they had committed offenses. The prisoners of concern will be released when they are qualified to be released. The GVN will consider their cases, but is "not afraid of any threats of pressure." If consideration of their releases is not in accordance with the law, there will be problems, VM Huong said. ¶34. (SBU) In terms of the persons facing restrictions, such as Thich Quang Do and Father Ly, Huong said he is very familiar with them. These individuals have "mental problems" and want to form political parties within their religions. Because they are old, "I don't want to arrest them," VM Huong said. However, if they violate the law, they will be punished. The monks affiliated with the Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam cause a lot of trouble. They even have quarrels among themselves, such as that between Thich Tue Sy and Thich Quang Do. Clearly, Vo Van Ai and other "outside agitators" are providing information to certain Members of Congress and others. Should the Ambassador meet Thich Quang Do, "please tell him that he can practice religious services, but they must be in accordance with the law," the Vice Minister requested, noting that such a message from the Ambassador would have great impact. Dealing with these individuals, and others who try to set themselves on fire, is difficult. "If you were in my place, you would feel the same," Huong said. Religious activity is subject to the law, and the law says clearly that abuse of religious activities for political aims will get you arrested. ¶35. (SBU) The Ambassador said that the USG has made clear that we are adamantly opposed to those who set themselves on fire, and we have told Hoa Hao adherents that this is wrong. The Ambassador suggested that VM Huong deal with these individuals as little as possible. They are no threat to the State or the Party. Responding to an earlier question by the Vice Minister regarding the future of the Party, the Ambassador said that the key to the Party's future success will be the extent to which it can learn to tolerate the views and opinions of all in society, including those on our lists of concern. Some people will say foolish things, but all should have the space to express their views. This is a prerequisite of a true democracy. This will take time, and someday hopefully political freedom will exist. This freedom will not be a threat to the Party. ¶36. (SBU) The conference in June that will educate officials in the north is welcome news, the Ambassador continued. We hope that Ambassador Hanford will be able to return to Vietnam soon to further assess the religious freedom situation here. The more information the GVN can provide on local conditions, the better. While true that changes in the north will take time, evidence of movement in the right direction is important, the Ambassador stressed. Comment -------------- ¶37. (SBU) Although VM Huong refused to speculate on his future in light of the rumored split of MPS into two ministries -- one responsible for the police and the other for State security -- our contacts have indicated that Huong is in line to be minister in a new Ministry of State Security (with Vice Minister Le The Tiem poised to take over as Minister of Police). VM Huong flatly denied that current Minister of Public Security Le Hong Anh would assume one of Vietnam's three Deputy Prime Ministerships. We have heard that Le Hong Anh will instead assume control of an until now largely inactive national security council or committee that oversees both the military and security services. End comment. MARINE