MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD DEPUTY LEADER: "I AM VERY

C O N F I D E N T I A L CAIRO 006963 SIPDIS SIPDIS NSC FOR WATERS E.O. 12958: DECL: 11/22/2016 TAGS: PREL KISL KDEM EG SUBJECT: MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD DEPUTY LEADER: "I AM VERY OPTIMISTIC" REF: CAIRO 6902 CLASSIFIED BY: ACTING DCM WILLIAM R. STEWART, FOR REASONS 1.5 (B) AND (D) ¶1. (C) SUMMARY: IN A TWO-HOUR LONG NOVEMBER 21 APPEARANCE AT THE AMERICAN UNIVERSITY OF CAIRO, MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD (MB) DEPUTY SUPREME GUIDE MOHAMED HABIB DELIVERED A BRIEF LECTURE ON "THE RIGHTS OF CITIZENSHIP," AND THEN TOOK QUESTIONS FROM THE CROWD COVERING A RANGE OF TOPICS, FROM HIS VIEWS OF THE U.S., DEMOCRACY AND EGYPTIAN CONSTITUTIONAL REFORM, TO THE RIGHTS OF BAH'AIS, WOMEN, AND CHRISTIANS. WHILE HIS REMARKS DID NOT BREAK ANY NEW GROUND, THE SIMPLE FACT THAT HABIB SPOKE, IN AN UNPRECEDENTED APPEARANCE AND TO A LARGELY WELCOMING CROWD AT THE ACADEMIC BASTION OF EGYPT'S SECULAR ELITE, IS ILLUSTRATIVE OF THE CONTINUING CONTRADICTION OF THE MB'S "BANNED BUT TOLERATED" STATUS, THE CONFIDENCE LEVEL OF THE MB, AND THE SUSTAINED INTEREST OF EGYPTIAN SOCIETY AT LARGE REGARDING THE ORGANIZATION. END SUMMARY. -------------- - "THE MB HAS ACCEPTED THE CONCEPT OF DEMOCRACY" -------------- - ¶2. (SBU) HABIB, BESPECTACLED AND WITH A CLOSE-CROPPED WHITE BEARD, SPOKE QUIETLY IN ARABIC, IN A SCHOLARLY MANNER MORE BEFITTING A PROFESSOR THAN A POLITICIAN, LITTERING HIS REMARKS WITH QURANIC REFERENCES WHILE ALSO LAUGHING AND JOKING WITH THE CROWD OF STUDENTS. HE DISCOURSED AT LENGTH REGARDING JUSTICE - "THE ESSENCE OF ISLAM IS JUSTICE ... A JUST STATE WILL SUCCEED EVEN IF IT IS ATHEIST, WHILE THE UNJUST STATE WILL FAIL EVEN IF IT IS ISLAMIC." HABIB FURTHER STRESSED THAT, "THE MB HAS ACCEPTED THE CONCEPT OF DEMOCRACY, BASED ON REAL POLITICAL DIVERSITY AND FREE, TRANSPARENT ELECTIONS .... PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE THEIR OWN LEADERS AND REPRESENTATIVES." HABIB FLAGGED THAT, "MB MEMBERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO RUN IN HONEST AND FREE ELECTIONS ... AND THIS MEANS THAT WE WILL BE ACCOUNTABLE IN SUBSEQUENT ELECTIONS." -------------- FUTURE OF THE MB: "I AM VERY OPTIMISTIC" -------------- ¶3. (SBU) FOLLOWING SOME BRIEF REMARKS CRITICIZING THE CURRENT DETENTION OF NUMEROUS MB MEMBERS, AND REFLECTING UPON PAST ARRESTS OF MB LEADERS (INCLUDING HIS OWN),HABIB NOTED THAT, "ALTHOUGH WE ARE OPPRESSED, I AM NOT PESSIMISTIC ABOUT OUR FUTURE; RATHER, I AM VERY OPTIMISTIC!" HE ASSERTED, "WE ARE NOW MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT, AND OUR NUMBER INCREASED EXPONENTIALLY IN THE LAST ELECTIONS. WE ARE IN THE SYNDICATES, IN THE NGO'S, IN EVERY PLAYING FIELD IN THE POLITICAL ARENA ACROSS THE ARAB WORLD." ¶4. (SBU) HABIB WAS MARKEDLY CRITICAL OF THE GOVERNMENTS POLITICAL PARTIES COMMITTEE (WHICH MUST APPROVE THE REGISTRATION OF ANY NEW POLITICAL PARTY) - "THE KADIMA PARTY IN ISRAEL WAS FORMED IN ONLY HALF AN HOUR! BUT HERE, THE PROBLEM IS THE POLITICAL PARTIES COMMITTEE AND IT'S RESTRICTIVE REGISTRATION PROCEDURES. EGYPTIANS NEED THE FREEDOM TO FORM POLITICAL PARTIES." "THE MB COULD FORM A PARTY IN 24 HOURS," HABIB STATED, "BUT IT IS NOT LOGICAL THAT IN THIS ABERRANT POLITICAL CLIMATE, WE APPLY TO THE POLITICAL PARTIES COMMITTEE." HE ASSERTED THAT, "THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY (NDP) IS ACTUALLY NOT A POLITICAL PARTY WITH AN IDEOLOGY; RATHER IT IS SIMPLY A GROUP OF PARASITIC PEOPLE, WHO FEED OFF OF THEIR CONNECTIONS TO THE ADMINISTRATIVE INSTITUTIONS OF THE STATE." EXPRESSING A DESIRE FOR INCREASED POLITICAL DIVERSITY, HABIB SAID, "IT IS VERY NEGATIVE THAT THERE ARE NOT MORE ACTIVE POLITICAL PARTIES .... IF THERE WERE MORE EFFECTIVE PARTIES, AND THE FIELD MORE CROWDED, THERE WOULD BE LESS TENSION BETWEEN THE MB AND THE STATE." -------------- -- CLIMATE NOT RIGHT FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS -------------- -- ¶5. (SBU) WHEN QUERIED AS TO THE MB'S VIEWS ON PRESIDENT HOSNI MUBARAK'S UPCOMING CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS PACKAGE, HABIB WAS DISMISSIVE: "THE GOVERNMENT IS PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE." "YOU CANNOT SUCCESSFULLY AND MEANINGFULLY AMEND THE CONSTITUTION," HE SAID, "EXCEPT IN A POSITIVE POLITICAL CLIMATE, WHEN THE POPULATION IS IN CONSENSUS. CURRENTLY, THE REGIME IS IN CONFLICT WITH ALL SEGMENTS OF SOCIETY - STUDENTS, JUDGES, PROFESSIONAL SYNDICATES - SO HOW CAN WE HAVE A LEGITIMATE AND REAL DEBATE ON CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGES IN SUCH AN ENVIRONMENT?" ¶6. (SBU) HABIB, IN COMMENTS REGARDING MUBARAK'S PLANS TO AMEND CONSTITUTIONAL ARTICLE 76 (WHICH CURRENTLY IMPOSES ONEROUS CONDITIONS ON PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES),NOTED, "UNDER CURRENT CONDITIONS, THE NDP WOULD BE THE ONLY PLAYER IN PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS." ARTICLE 76, HE CLAIMED, AIMS ONLY FOR THE INHERITANCE OF POWER (TO GAMAL MUBARAK) AND NO REAL COMPETITION IN A PRESIDENTIAL RACE. -------------- -------------- WHY DOES THE U.S. STILL SUPPORT DESPOTIC REGIMES? -------------- -------------- ¶7. (SBU) IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION ABOUT THE MBS VIEWS OF THE U.S., HABIB ADAMANTLY DENIED HAVING "ANY DIRECT OR INDIRECT" RELATIONSHIP WITH THE USG. HE ADDED THAT THE U.S. ADMINISTRATION HAS A "MORAL PROBLEM," ARGUING THAT IT IS DISHONEST, IT ABUSES ITS POWER, AND AMERICAN POLICY POSITIONS ARE CONSTANTLY SHIFTING. "FOR INSTANCE, THE U.S. SAYS IT WANTS DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM, AND HUMAN RIGHTS, BUT IT IS THE FIRST ONE TO VIOLATE THOSE VALUES." HABIB NOTED THAT, "WHEN CONDOLEEZA RICE CAME TO CAIRO AND SAID THE U.S. HAD MISTAKENLY SUPPORTED DESPOTIC REGIMES FOR DECADES, I AGREED WITH HER. BUT THE U.S. IS STILL SUPPORTING THOSE REGIMES!" HABIB ASSERTED THAT ALL THE MB WANTS IS FOR THE U.S. TO STAND BY ITS WORD AND NOT SUPPORT OR PROP UP TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENTS. HE ALSO CRITICIZED THE RECENT U.S. VETO OF THE DRAFT UNSCR CONDEMNING THE ISRAELI ATTACK ON BEIT HANOUN, AND NOTED HIS HOPE THAT THE U.S. WOULD CONDUCT ITSELF ACCORDING TO REAL PRINCIPLES OF JUSTICE AND FREEDOM. ¶8. (SBU) QUERIED SUBSEQUENTLY ON HIS VIEWS REGARDING THE USG POSITION ON HAMAS, HABIB NOTED HIS "ASTONISHMENT" THAT THE U.S. ADMINISTRATION HAD SUCH AN "ODD ATTITUDE" TOWARDS THE PALESTINIAN ELECTION. IT WAS FREE AND FAIR, HE AVERRED, WITH HUGE VOTER TURNOUT, SO WHY HAVE THE U.S. AND EUROPE NOT ACCEPTED IT? -------------- THE MB AND THE CAMP DAVID ACCORDS -------------- ¶9. (SBU) ECHOING PAST MB STATEMENTS ON THE TOPIC, HABIB SAID THAT, SHOULD THE MB "ASSUME POWER," IT WOULD PUT EGYPT'S PEACE TREATY WITH ISRAEL THROUGH SOME TYPE OF "REVIEW": "ANY RESPECTABLE COUNTRY MUST RE-ASSESS ITS AGREEMENTS EVERY FIVE, TEN, OR FIFTEEN YEARS." THE CAMP DAVID ACCORDS, HE SAID, SHOULD BE SUBMITTED FOR REVIEW TO THE DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS OF THE EGYPTIAN PEOPLE. -------------- INTERNAL MB DIVISIONS AND FUNDING -------------- ¶10. (SBU) IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION ON THE MB'S FINANCES, HABIB ASSERTED THAT, "OUR FUNDING COMES FROM THE POCKETS OF MB MEMBERS THEMSELVES." HE MAINTAINED THAT THE ORGANIZATION HAS A "TREMENDOUS HUMAN RESOURCE" IN HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF VOLUNTEERS WHO GIVE THEIR TIME AND ENERGY FOR FREE, "BUT THEIR EFFORTS ARE WORTH MILLIONS OF EGYPTIAN POUNDS." IN A DIG AT THE INFAMOUSLY CORRUPT NDP PARTY MACHINE, HABIB COMMENTED, "BESIDES, THE MB DOES NOT HAVE TO BRIBE PEOPLE TO BUY THEIR VOICES." WHEN ASKED ABOUT RUMORED INTER-GENERATIONAL DISPUTES WITHIN THE MB, HABIB REPLIED THAT IT WAS TO BE EXPECTED THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENCES OF OPINION WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION; "WE ARE NOT A MONOLITH." HE OPINED THAT DIVERSITY OF VIEWS IS NATURALLY PRESENT WITHIN THE MB, BECAUSE THE ORGANIZATION IS COMPOSED OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE. -------------- CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS -------------- ¶11. (SBU) HABIB NOTED THAT "OUR COPTIC BROTHERS AND SISTERS ARE EGYPTIAN CITIZENS LIKE ANY OTHERS, WITH ALL THE RIGHTS OF CITIZENSHIP THAT I HAVE ... CHRISTIANS ARE PART OF THE FABRIC THAT IS EGYPT." HE ASSERTED REPEATEDLY THAT WOMEN ARE THE EQUAL PARTNER OF MEN. HABIB STATED THAT HE IS AGAINST QUOTAS FOR CHRISTIANS AND WOMEN, BECAUSE SUCH "MACHINATIONS" ARE "AGAINST THE PRINCIPLES OF EQUAL CITIZENSHIP." HABIB WAS LESS BALANCED REGARDING THE RIGHTS OF BAH'AIS: "THEIR SECT IS NOT CONSIDERED ONE OF THE HEAVENLY RELIGIONS. SO WHY SHOULD FREEDOM BE GIVEN TO ITS PRACTICES?" AFTER FURTHER QUESTIONING AND ROUND-ABOUT DISCOURSE ON THE TOPIC, HABIB CONCLUDED THAT, "I CALL ON THOSE WITHOUT RELIGION (BAH'AIS) TO RESPECT THE MAJORITY AND NOT WORK AGAINST SOCIETY AT LARGE. HOWEVER, IF THEY DO WANT TO EXERCISE THEIR SECT, IT SHOULD BE IN THEIR HOMES, NOT PUBLICLY." WHEN QUERIED AS TO THE MB'S POSITION ON CONVERTS FROM ISLAM, HABIB STATED THAT, "THE PROPHET SAID, HE WHO CHANGES HIS RELIGION, KILL HIM.' BUT THIS ISSUE REQUIRES MORE DISCUSSION AND EXAMINATION IN TODAY'S ENVIRONMENT." -------------- COMMENT -------------- ¶12. (C) HABIB'S REMARKS BROKE NO NEW GROUND, BUT ARE A USEFUL SUMMARY OF THE MB'S STANCE ON VARIOUS HOT-BUTTON ISSUES. THE SIMPLE FACT THAT THE DEPUTY SUPREME GUIDE SPOKE IN AN UNPRECEDENTED APPEARANCE AND TO A LARGELY WELCOMING CROWD AT THE ACADEMIC BASTION OF EGYPT'S SECULAR ELITE, IS ILLUSTRATIVE OF THE CONTINUING CONTRADICTION OF THE MB'S "BANNED BUT TOLERATED" STATUS, THE CONFIDENCE LEVEL OF THE MB, AND THE SUSTAINED INTEREST OF EGYPTIAN SOCIETY AT LARGE REGARDING THE ORGANIZATION. HABIBS RHETORIC EMBODIED THE STRENGTH OF THE MB'S CRITIQUE OF THE MUBARAK GOVERNMENT, AND THE GROUP'S APPEAL TO ORDINARY EGYPTIANS, WHILE ALSO RAISING SIGNIFICANT CONCERNS ABOUT THE MB'S COMMITMENT TO CIVIL RIGHTS AND STANCE ON FOREIGN POLICY. RICCIARDONE