CODEL HOEKSTRA MEETS IRAQI MINISTER OF INTERIOR

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 BAGHDAD 000976 SIPDIS SIPDIS E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/19/2016 TAGS: PGOV PINS PHUM PREL IZ SUBJECT: CODEL HOEKSTRA MEETS IRAQI MINISTER OF INTERIOR Classified By: ACTING DEPUTY CHIEF OF MISSION DAVID C. LITT FOR REASONS 1.4 (B),(D) ¶1. (C) SUMMARY: In a meeting with CODEL Hoekstra, Minister of Interior Bayan Jabr said that he is not concerned by the problem that militias -- other than Jaysh al-Mahdi (JAM) -- pose and is confident that it will be solved soon. He believes the Iraqi Security Forces (ISF) are growing in effectiveness, that there is no danger of civil war in Iraq, and that there would be no adverse reaction in Iraq to a U.S. attack on Iran or Syria. He shook off human rights concerns by stating the Prime Minister's committee to investigate such allegations would issue a report soon and that anyone implicated in rights violations would be dealt with. Jabr predicted the new government will be formed within a month. END SUMMARY. -------------- "MILITIAS POSE NO PROBLEM" -------------- ¶2. (C) On March 19, 2006, Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI),Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-KS),Rep. John B. Shadegg (R-AZ),Rep. Mark Souder (R-IN),and Rep. C.A. Ruppersberger (D-MD),called on Iraqi Minister of Interior Bayan Jabr. Rep. Hoekstra began by noting that most news from Iraq that is reported in the U.S. media is negative, and that he and his colleagues are anxious to learn both the good and the bad about what is taking place in Iraq. He asked Jabr about the threat posed by militias. Jabr replied that he is not concerned by the militias. He explained that he is the chairman of the committee established to deal with the reintegration of militia members, and that he has no doubt the problem of the militias can be resolved. Some militia members will be retired, while others will be integrated into the Iraqi Security Forces (ISF). Jabr also said he was confident that the ISF and Coalition Forces (CF) are strong enough to handle any problems that might arise from the militias. That said, the Jaysh al-Mahdi (JAM) of Moqtada al-Sadr does remain a problem. He said that they are only in one area, Sadr City, and that they will go away once the economy picks up and the young men who make up JAM obtain jobs. ¶3. (C) Rep. Hoekstra replied that Jabr seems more optimistic about the situation than most others his delegation had spoken with. He pointed out that a sectarian conflict in Iraq will erode U.S. public support for Iraq. In other words, if the Iraqi people are not seen to be serious about coming together to build a unified country, but rather are more interested in advancing sectarian interests through self-enrichment, corruption, and militia control, then continued U.S. support for Iraq will not be forthcoming. It is critical that the security forces set the tone to aggressively deal with this problem. Jabr responded that the Iraqi government can solve the problem of sectarianism, but that it might take some time. He complained that when he came to office, many of the police officials who had already been appointed were and remain more loyal to their political parties than to Iraq. This is particularly true, he said, in the south of Iraq. He said that he is working as hard as he can to assure that people who come into the police forces leave their party affiliations at the door and that they pledge to work as Iraqis, together with others from different tendencies. -------------- ISF EFFECTIVENESS -------------- ¶4. (C) Rep. Hoekstra also asked about the effectiveness of the ISF. Jabr assured him that reports of large-scale turnover among police officers are exaggerated. "Most join and stay, although some do quit because they are afraid." Jabr claimed that the police forces coordinate well with each other and with Iraqi and Coalition army elements. He receives frequent reports on the activities of the police forces under his command so he has a good feel for their capabilities and effectiveness. Rep. Hoekstra asked Jabr when we can expect to see U.S. forces begin to withdrawal from Iraq and Jabr said he thinks a sizable number of CF soldiers can begin to leave by the end of the year. -------------- "NO DANGER OF CIVIL WAR" -------------- ¶5. (C) Rep. Shadegg asked Jabr to comment on press reports BAGHDAD 00000976 002 OF 003 regarding the likelihood of civil war. Jabr said that he does not think a civil war in Iraq is possible. All the major tribes consist of both Sunni and Shia. Sunni and Shia live together as neighbors in many parts of Iraq. And many Iraqi families have intermarried, meaning that Sunni and Shia live under the same roofs. Jabr firmly stated his belief that the problems faced by Iraqis are not sectarian, but are political. The only reason al-Qaida in Iraq (AQIZ) attacks Shia is because the Shia support the United States. If Shia religious leaders were to announce that Shias should fight against the U.S., then AQIZ would cease their attacks on the Shia and quickly ally with them. -------------- IRAN, SYRIA -------------- ¶6. (C) Rep. Ruppersberger asked Jabr for his views on the role Iran and Syria are playing in Iraq, and specifically what type of reaction would take place in Iraq were the U.S. to attack Iran's nuclear facilities or Syria. Jabr said that if the U.S. were to attack Iran there would be no reaction in Iraq. Iraqis are Arabs and Iranians are Persian. In addition, the Shia of Iraq do not look to the Shia of Iran for guidance or leadership. Rather, the center of Shia authority is in Najaf, not Qom, and it is the Iranians who should be looking to Iraq for leadership. In the wider region, a U.S. attack on Iran would result in violence in Lebanon and Israel caused by Hizbollah. As for a U.S. attack on Syria, Jabr replied: "Forget Syria. Syria hates us. They send fighters to kill our people." The Iraqis would not react to military action against Syria. -------------- HUMAN RIGHTS CONCERNS -------------- ¶7. (C) Rep. Ruppersberger and Rep. Tiahrt raised the issue of detainee abuse, pointing out that the MOI has been implicated in human rights violations. Jabr replied that a committee has been formed by the Prime Minister to investigate these allegations and that he expects it to issue a report within a few weeks. At that time, anyone who is found to be complicit in rights violations will be held to answer. With regard to rights abuses by MOI forces, Jabr said that many police officers are holdovers from the Saddam regime who either never left the police or who have been rehired. It is a mistake, he said, to retain and hire such people. If it were up to him, the police forces would be comprised of young people recruited from the universities. He also pointed out the even soldiers of the United States and United Kingdom have been implicated in human rights violations in Iraq. That said, Jabr sought to defend his record, pointing out the progress that has been made in the Ministry with regard to human rights training since he took over. He "guaranteed" the congressmen that today in Iraq, no arrests are made without warrants signed by a judge. -------------- GOVERNMENT FORMATION -------------- ¶8. (C) Rep. Souder inquired about the pace of government formation. Jabr predicted a government will be formed within one month. The major sticking point is the composition and powers of a "National Security Council" that is not set forth in the constitution. He expected a resolution to this dispute in the next few days. -------------- COMMENT -------------- ¶9. (C) Many of Jabr's comments were overly optimistic or simply misleading, and several of the congressmen left the meeting skeptical about Jabr's views. Two interesting points emerging from the conversation were Jabr's emphasis, more than once, on the point that the seat of Shia power and authority is in Najaf, not in Iran. He asserted that Najaf has always been the center of the Shia universe, even though the Iranians tried unsuccessfully to supplant it with Qom. For this reason, Iraqi Shias will not be unduly influenced by the views of the Iranian clergy or government. His assertion that Iraqis would not react to a U.S. military attack on Iran seems to ignore recent statements by Moqtada al-Sadr and flies in the face of conventional wisdom and historical precedent concerning U.S. military action against Arab and BAGHDAD 00000976 003 OF 003 Muslim countries. Also of interest was Jabr's insistence on the fact that AQIZ's attacks on Shia are purely political, rather than religious or sectarian in nature. We do not believe that the facts, mainly statements made by Zarqawi and the historical animosity of Sunnis toward Shia, bear out this assertion. Further, Jabr's overly rosy portrayal of the human rights situation, or at least his unwillingness to discuss it openly and frankly, was disappointing if not unexpected. ¶10. CODEL Hoekstra did not have the opportunity to clear this cable before departing Iraq. KHALILZAD