A/S FRIED'S MEETING WITH DEFENSE MINISTER SARGSIAN

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 YEREVAN 001940

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/21/2015
TAGS: PREL PGOV PHUM AM
SUBJECT: A/S FRIED'S MEETING WITH DEFENSE MINISTER SARGSIAN


Classified By: Amb. John M. Evans for reasons 1.4 (b,d).

USG Participants:

EUR A/S Daniel Fried
Ambassador Evans
EUR/SNEC Elizabeth Rood

Minister of Defense Serzh Sargsian
Lt. Hovhannes Ghazarian (interpreter)

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"UNREALIZED POTENTIAL"
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1. (C) Assistant Secretary Fried described for Defense
Minister Sargsian a sense in Washington that history in
Armenia's neighborhood is accelerating, for better or worse.
U.S.-Armenian relations, he said, have "unrealized
potential." The United States wants to work with all its
friends in the region. Whatever others might say, the U.S.
is not in favor of revolutions; rather we are interested in
strong reforms. Armenia is moving in a positive direction,
as its two nearest neighbors were also moving in interesting
directions.

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U.S. NOT IN COMPETITION WITH RUSSIA
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2. (C) Defense Minister Sargsian said that Armenia was headed
toward Europe, because Armenians considered themselves
members of the European family. But he said Armenia now
needed to find the answers to a number of questions. The
Minister said that for Armenia the optimal situation was when
relations between Russian and the United States were good.
Armenia had never sought to benefit from contradictions
between the two. Such a small and weak country was Armenia
that even small events could be critical; a country with only
one gas pipeline had to make all of its choices with that
pipeline in mind.


3. (C) Fried said that the United States had never regarded
Armenia as an object of competition between ourselves and the
Russians, and we do not want to develop our relations with
Armenia at the expense of Russia. It is good for Armenia to
have good relations with Moscow. We do not seek to weaken
Russia in this part of the world, but do want the countries
here to be sovereign and at peace. We want Armenia to
succeed, and would not ask Armenia to weaken its ties to
Russia. Armenia might, for that matter, help to show Russia
the way, by reforming and developing in a democratic
direction while being a friend to Russia. As the Europeans
are absorbed in internal issues at the moment, it is perhaps
easier for Americans than for the Europeans to see Armenia as
an eventual part of Europe. Washington did not see events in
the region as based on a zero-sum principle, although we do
sense that our Russian friends are nervous. Accusations that
U.S. policy is Trotskyite -- that is, favoring permanent
revolution -- is not serious. Reforms, though, are
necessary, which is why we place so much importance on the
referendum on the constitutional amendments in November.

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PROSPECTS FOR PEACE IN NAGORNO-KARABAKH
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4. (C) Fried noted that a Nagorno-Karabakh settlement would
open up interesting possibilities for Armenia. He asked what
the Minister thought of the situation and how the United
States might help. Sargsian recalled the recent meetings of
the Armenian and Azeri presidents and said that the way
forward that was currently on the table was "optimal." There
was no other way forward. This "compromise solution" was the
only possible solution.


5. (C) The A/S agreed that there was wisdom in discussion and
compromise, and that to speak in terms of victory and defeat
makes no sense. Azeri Foreign Minister Mammadyarov is a
serious person, and we are encouraged enough to think that
2006 should be the time for a major step forward on N-K. We
will do all we can, but ultimately it would be up to the
parties to reach an agreement.


6. (C) Sargsian said he had doubts about whether the Azeris
really wanted to make the deal that was on the table work.
He stressed he was not particularly worried by this
possibility, as he had observed the problem at all stages of
its development. It was not necessary to speak of
"compromise;" one could talk about a "solution," if that were
easier. The important thing was that the situation not
revert to conflict.


7. (C) Fried agreed, saying that conflicts keep countries in
the region vulnerable and weak. What the Central and Eastern
Europeans had achieved in their region since 1989 was a
positive example that opened their door to Europe.

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TURKEY
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8. (C) Turning to Turkey, Fried said that Prime Minister
Erdogan was doing a good job, despite some difficulties in
our relationship. He has dealt with a number of difficult
questions. Armenia's leaders should keep in mind that Turkey
is changing. The fact that Turks are now thinking about
Armenia is progress. Absent an agreement on N-K, however,
there was not much Turkey could do. Still, the situation is
much improved as compared to even five years ago.


9. (C) Sargsian said that the prosperity of Armenia
ultimately depended on the opening of the border with Turkey,
which would "make us three times freer than we are." He
added that Armenians living abroad did not have to face such
fateful decisions as did the GOAM.

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MOVING TOWARD EUROPE?
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10. (C) Fried said that, as Armenia continued to emerge and
head toward Europe, we wanted our relations to develop.
Every country in the region, e.g., Georgia, had its problems.
He told Sargsian he was glad he understood that the U.S. was
not trying to exclude Russia from the region. Looking around
the region, it was clear that fearful leaders make mistakes.
Reform through constitutional processes makes good sense.


11. (C) Sargsian noted how useful it would be for all
countries in the region to have the railway through Abkhazia
reopened. After some sharing of impressions of personalities
in Georgia (A/S Fried's next stop),the meeting concluded.


12. (U) EUR/FO has cleared this cable.
EVANS