VATICAN EXAMINES CHURCH-STATE DYNAMIC IN VENEZUELA

C O N F I D E N T I A L VATICAN 000555 SIPDIS SIPDIS DEPT FOR EUR/WE LARREA; WHA E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/13/2030 TAGS: VE KIRF PHUM PREL PGOV VT SUBJECT: VATICAN EXAMINES CHURCH-STATE DYNAMIC IN VENEZUELA REF: A. Refs: a) Caracas 3022; b) Caracas 3262; c) Caracas 3223; d) Vatican 489; e) Vatican 508 ¶B. A) CARACAS 3022; B) CARACAS 3262; C) CARACAS 3223; D) VATICAN 489; E) VATICAN 508; F) LARREA-MARTIN 12/9/05 EMAIL CLASSIFIED BY: Peter Martin, Pol/Econ Chief, Vatican, State. REASON: 1.4 (b),(d) -------------- Summary -------------- ¶1. (C) Holy See Country Director for Venezuela Monsignor Thevenin (protect throughout) told us recently he saw little change in the church-state dynamic in the country. When asked about new archbishop of Caracas, Thevenin said he was "not a fighter" and would not be aggressive against Chavez. Thevenin said outspoken Cardinal Castillo Lara's "political bedfellows" were a problem, as his association with them made him easier for the government to attack and discredit. The Ambassador has raised Venezuela with several top Holy See officials, pressing the need for strong Vatican support for the Venezuelan Church against anti-democratic governmental abuses. Most at the Vatican remain wedded to the perspective reported in refs (d) and (e),that as an aggressive stance did not help Venezuelan church-state relations in the past, a more conciliatory approach is needed now. Post appreciates continued talking points and evidence of abuses of the Church that we can use in our discussions here. End Summary. -------------- New Archbishop -------------- ¶2. (C) Holy See Country Director for Venezuela Monsignor Nicolas Thevenin (protect throughout) told us just before the recent Venezuelan elections he saw little change in the church-state dynamic in the country. When asked about new archbishop of Caracas, Jorge Liberato Urosa Savino, Thevenin said he was "not a fighter." According to Thevenin, if Urosa is elected president of the bishops conference he'll try to unify the episcopate. "If something needs to be said against the government he'll say it, but he won't be aggressive," Thevenin continued. He said it was not automatic that Urosa would be created a cardinal. -------------- Bedfellows Problematic -------------- ¶3. (C) When asked about the continuing public comments against the government by Cardinal Rosalio Castillo Lara (ref b), Thevenin said that the real problem was the cardinal's political bedfellows. Thevenin said when Castillo was seen to be consorting with well-known enemies of the government, it made him easier for the government to attack and discredit. Further, he echoed Embassy Caracas's ref (a) source, offering that these anti-government activists may be using Castillo for their own purposes. -------------- Papal Meeting -------------- ¶4. (C) As for a Chavez meeting with the pope, ref (b) is correct. As we have reported previously (ref d),the pope will receive Chavez if he comes to Rome and the schedule allows. Thevenin said there had been a lot of "back and forth" about the possible Chavez audience in October. He insisted that one shouldn't read anything into the fact that the two sides didn't work out a date and time. -------------- Comment -------------- ¶5. (C) The Ambassador has raised Venezuela with several top Holy See officials including Archbishop Leonardo Sandri, chief of the Vatican's internal operations and generally regarded as number three in the Vatican behind the pope and secretary of state. Most remain wedded to the perspective reported in refs (d) and (e),that as a more aggressive stance did not help Venezuelan church-state relations in the past, a more conciliatory approach is needed now. We have heard little support for Cardinal Castillo Lara here. Sandri (protect) told the Ambassador he expected that eventually Chavez's popularity would wane to the extent that he might be overthrown internally. We have continued to press the case that strong Vatican support for the Venezuelan Church against anti-democratic governmental abuses is crucial if anything like this is ever to take place. Post appreciates continued talking points (ref f) and evidence of abuses of the Church that we can use in our discussions here. ROONEY