FRENCH GUARDED ON RUMORS OF SUBMARINE SALES TO

S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 02 PARIS 008460 SIPDIS E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/13/2015 TAGS: MARR MASS PARM FR VE SUBJECT: FRENCH GUARDED ON RUMORS OF SUBMARINE SALES TO VENEZUELA REF: A. USDAO PARIS IIR 6 832 0097 06 ¶B. PARIS 7885 Classified By: Deputy Chief of Mission Karl Hofmann, reasons 1.4 (b) an d (d). ¶1. (S) Summary: In response to information indicating French-Venezuelan contacts to discuss potential arms sales, in particular the Scorpene submarine, DCM followed up on December 13 with the SGDN Deputy head Edouard Scott de Martinville, POL/MC with MFA A/S-equivalent Daniel Parfait, U/S Joseph with MFA Political Director Stanislas de Laboulaye, and Polmiloff with MOD Cabinet staffer Camille Grand. Scott de Martinville was unwilling to indicate where -- if at all -- in the two-tiered interministerial evaluation process any potential Scorpene deal with Venezuela might be. Parfait downplayed any "speculation" about a pending submarine deal. Laboulaye was not aware of the situation and had no substantive response to the points raised, but indicated he would look into the matter. Grand said the GoF was reviewing its general policy on arms sales to Venezuela, and that USG concerns would be factored in. Reporting in other channels (ref A) suggests that a proposal from the defense industry has been submitted to the SGDN, but that it has not yet been tasked out for evaluation by the relevant ministries. End Summary. ¶2. (S) In a December 13 conversation with the DCM, Vice Admiral Edouard Scott de Martinville explained the process by which any potential military sale would be evaluated by the GoF. According to Scott de Martinville, the interministerial process for a sale of high-level technology is headed by the General Secretariat for National Defense (SGDN),of which he is the deputy, and consists of two rounds. The first round discusses whether to allow a potential supplier to begin talks with a foreign government regarding a possible sale, while the second round evaluates the specifics of a potential deal and decides whether or not to allow the sale (ref A). Scott de Martinville noted that, throughout the process, prospective purchasers are unaware if their approach is even being considered. Pressed by the DCM on reports of a Scorpene deal, Scott de Martinville declined to say if a sale to Venezuela had yet been taken up by the SGDN, noting that such deliberations were "secret." He did note that 500-1000 such proposals may be floated in any given month. ¶3. (S) When questioned by POL/MC, A/S equivalent Parfait also refused to be pinned down on the issue, and was not even prepared to state whether the possibility of a submarine sale to Venezuela was being entertained. He dismissed any reports that may have come to U.S. attention as "speculation," saying they derived from routine discussions between countries and French suppliers about possible arms purchases. In response to POL/MC's expression of strong USG opposition to any submarine sales to Venezuela, Parfait raised his long-standing desire for a U.S.-France dialogue, specifically with A/S Shannon, to discuss inter alia our contradictory analyses of the nature of the Chavez regime and its destabilizing potential for the region. Parfait indicated that he would like to hear from A/S Shannon a detailed case laying out our view of Chavez' destabilizing capacity and intentions, and have the opportunity to present the very different French perspective. Parfait said he would provide us shortly proposed dates for a visit to Washington. ¶4. (S) T U/S Joseph, who was in Paris on December 13 for unrelated MFA meetings, similarly raised USG concerns about submarine sales in a meeting with MFA Political Director Stanislas de Laboulaye. Laboulaye said he was not aware of the issue, but took note of U/S Joseph's points and indicated that he would look into the matter. ¶5. (S) In a December 14 conversation with Polmiloff, Deputy Diplomatic Advisor in the Cabinet of the Defense Minister Camille Grand indicated that the GoF was aware that the U.S. and France do not share the same perspective politically on arms sales to Venezuela. Grand emphasized that France recognizes USG concerns and has no reason to provide Venezuela with arms that could represent a threat to U.S. forces or to the stability of the region. He revealed that there is a 2-3 month policy review under way between MOD and MFA on what arms in general could be sold to Venezuela. He added that the interagency review would factor U.S. concerns. Although Grand expected that French policy will eventually be more "flexible" than the U.S.'s arms transfer policy, he said potential sales would have to comply with ITAR regulations . Grand also sought to provide context to any sales by noting France's historical role as an arms supplier to Venezuela dating to the 1980's, adding that Venezuela has French tanks, planes, and other arms. Venezuela has been buying parts and is generally seeking to modernize its existing French stock, he said. Grand observed that total arms sales have been relatively small -- between one and two million euros. Grand indicated it was possible that arms industry reps may be discussing submarine sales with Venezuela, but that he wasn't aware of any such discussions. ¶6. (S) Comment: GoF interlocutors have been careful to avoid indicating the exact status of any discussions within the GoF of Scorpene submarine sales to Venezuela, but have stopped well short of denying that the subject is on the table. Reporting in other channels (ref A) suggests that a proposal on Scorpene sales to Venezuela (and at least one other country) has recently been submitted to the SGDN, but that the relevant ministries have not yet been tasked with providing input into a decision, indicating the process could be in the very early first stage. Ref A also notes that, even if a proposal were to be taken up by the GoF and a deal signed, the delivery of any submarines would likely be no earlier than 2011 or 2012. Post will follow up with Laboulaye and continue to press at all levels for clarification. End Comment. Please visit Paris' Classified Website at: http://www.state.sgov.gov/p/eur/paris/index.c fm Stapleton