BIC-IV: (U) LOOK-UL'YANOV MEETINGS, OCTOBER 26

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 GENEVA 002616 SIPDIS DEPT FOR T, VCI, ISN, EUR AND S/NIS DOE FOR NA-24 JCS FOR J5/DDINMA AND J5/IN SECDEF FOR OSD/ISP AND OSD/ACP NAVY FOR CNO-N5GP AND DIRSSP DTRA FOR OSA AND DIRECTOR NSC FOR LUTI DIA FOR RAR-3 E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/28/2015 TAGS: PARM KACT US RS BIC SORT SUBJECT: BIC-IV: (U) LOOK-UL'YANOV MEETINGS, OCTOBER 26 AND 27, 2005 Classified By: DAS Karin L. Look, U.S. Representative to the Bilateral Implementation Commission (BIC). Reasons 1.4 (B) and (d). ¶1. (U) This is BIC-IV-001. ¶2. (U) Meeting: U.S.-Hosted Dinner Date: October 25, 2005 Time: 7:00 - 8:30 p.m. Place: Auberge des Trois Coqs, Chambesy Participants: U.S. Russia DAS Look Mr. Ul'yanov AND Meeting: Russian-Hosted Lunch Date: October 27, 2005 Time: 1:00 - 2:15 p.m. Place: Relais de Chambesy, Chambesy Participants: U.S. Russia DAS Look Mr. Ul'yanov -------------- SUMMARY OF OCTOBER 25 MEETING -------------- ¶3. (C) BIC U.S. Head of Delegation DAS Karin L. Look met with Russian Head of Delegation Mikhail Ul'yanov over dinner on October 25, 2005, at Auberge des Trois Coqs in Chambesy. The discussion focused on planning for the BIC meetings to be held during the remainder of the week and on topics the Russian Delegation planned to raise during those meetings. Ul'yanov also raised the matter of Russia's Aide Memoire on the question of strategic stability after START (September 20, 2005) and provided his thoughts with respect to its content and implementation. -------------- SCHEDULE AND TOPICS -------------- ¶4. (C) Ul'yanov indicated a desire for a total of three meetings during BIC-IV. He asked that the briefings on the current status of each side's strategic nuclear forces, and any questions related to the briefings, be provided during the first meeting, with answers to be exchanged the following day. He also told Look that he was instructed to (1) propose an exchange of "national statements" on how each side counts strategic nuclear warheads (in lieu of a joint definition on the term "strategic nuclear warhead"),and (2) reiterate Russia's previous proposals concerning transparency. Look indicated a willingness to listen to Russia's idea concerning "national statements," but noted that, with respect to transparency measures, Russia knows where the United States stands and its position is unchanged, i.e., there is no need for the development of transparency measures associated with the Moscow Treaty. Look informed Ul'yanov that the U.S. side's briefing will contain the number of its strategic nuclear warheads as of September 30, 2005. Ul'yanov was very pleased to hear this news. -------------- BIC LEADERSHIP -------------- ¶5. (U) Ul'yanov noted Dr. George Look's departure as the BIC U.S. Head of Delegation and remarked that, in his view, he and Dr. Look had established a positive relationship during their sessions together as U.S. and Russian Heads of Delegation for the BIC. Ul'yanov asked about Dr. Look's new responsibilities with regard to long-range planning and indicated his hope that their paths would cross again. Regarding U.S. leadership of the BIC (and other commissions) DAS Look noted that the United States would decide following the current sessions of the BIC and JCIC who it plans to have head the BIC Delegation, as well as who would head the JCIC and SVC Delegations. -------------- STRATEGIC DIALOGUE -------------- ¶6. (C) Ul'yanov raised the issue of Russia's Aide Memoire on strategic stability after START expires and noted that Russia is hoping for a response from the United States in early November. He also noted that Russia is looking for a dialogue with the United States. He said that it was quite intentional on Russia's part that the Aide Memoire contains no substantive Russian position. He also made quite clear that Russia does not see the Aide Memoire as being about the START or Moscow Treaties per se and, in fact, made it clear that Russia is not interested in continuing a five-party START Treaty. Rather, the Aide Memoire is about how Russia hopes to formulate our dialogue and perhaps develop written rules for managing it. Ul'yanov indicated that he might make these points during the course of the BIC meetings as well. Ul'yanov also expressed the view that agreements can be useful in managing a relationship. Look said she was not convinced that this was the case. In her view, the United States and Russia had grown too dependent on "agreements" regarding controlling arms. We now were dependent on agreements like a person who has used a crutch for so long that he cannot imagine walking without it, i.e., he will not even try. Now that there is no longer any reason for us to limp, we must try to develop our relationship on the basis of something other than "agreements." -------------- SUMMARY OF OCTOBER 27 MEETING -------------- ¶7. (U) Ul'yanov reciprocated the U.S.-hosted dinner with a lunch with Look at the Relais de Chambesy on Thursday, October 27, 2005. The primary discussion was with regard to his plans for the BIC meeting that afternoon and to agree that the afternoon meeting would close BIC-IV. -------------- TRANSPARENCY -------------- ¶8. (C) Ul'yanov told Look that he planned to propose that, in the future, the sides increase transparency by providing sub-aggregated numbers for strategic nuclear warheads and, if possible, also provide locational information. Look reminded Ul'yanov that the United States does not believe that it is necessary to exchange such information, but noted that we would, of course, listen and report Russia's proposal. -------------- AIDE MEMOIRE -------------- ¶9. (C) Ul'yanov pressed Look concerning when she thought Washington would respond to Russia's Aide Memoire, and said he planned to mention it at the afternoon meeting so that the U.S. Delegation would hear about Russia's interest in a dialogue. Look said that Washington was studying the Russian paper and would provide a response as soon as its assessment was completed. She also noted that she assumed a response would come from a more senior level. Finally, Look welcomed the opportunity for the U.S. Delegation to hear Ul'yanov's ideas and explanations with regard to Russia's Aide Memoire. ¶10. (U) Look sends. Moley