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Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
05GENEVA2616
2005-10-28 08:19:00
CONFIDENTIAL
US Mission Geneva
Cable title:  

BIC-IV: (U) LOOK-UL'YANOV MEETINGS, OCTOBER 26

Tags:   PARM  KACT  US  RS  BIC  SORT 
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This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.
						C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 GENEVA 002616 

SIPDIS

DEPT FOR T, VCI, ISN, EUR AND S/NIS
DOE FOR NA-24
JCS FOR J5/DDINMA AND J5/IN
SECDEF FOR OSD/ISP AND OSD/ACP
NAVY FOR CNO-N5GP AND DIRSSP
DTRA FOR OSA AND DIRECTOR
NSC FOR LUTI
DIA FOR RAR-3

E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/28/2015
TAGS: PARM KACT US RS BIC SORT
SUBJECT: BIC-IV: (U) LOOK-UL'YANOV MEETINGS, OCTOBER 26
AND 27, 2005

Classified By: DAS Karin L. Look, U.S. Representative
to the Bilateral Implementation Commission (BIC).
Reasons 1.4 (B) and (d).

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 GENEVA 002616

SIPDIS

DEPT FOR T, VCI, ISN, EUR AND S/NIS
DOE FOR NA-24
JCS FOR J5/DDINMA AND J5/IN
SECDEF FOR OSD/ISP AND OSD/ACP
NAVY FOR CNO-N5GP AND DIRSSP
DTRA FOR OSA AND DIRECTOR
NSC FOR LUTI
DIA FOR RAR-3

E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/28/2015
TAGS: PARM KACT US RS BIC SORT
SUBJECT: BIC-IV: (U) LOOK-UL'YANOV MEETINGS, OCTOBER 26
AND 27, 2005

Classified By: DAS Karin L. Look, U.S. Representative
to the Bilateral Implementation Commission (BIC).
Reasons 1.4 (B) and (d).


1. (U) This is BIC-IV-001.


2. (U) Meeting: U.S.-Hosted Dinner
Date: October 25, 2005
Time: 7:00 - 8:30 p.m.
Place: Auberge des Trois Coqs, Chambesy
Participants:

U.S. Russia

DAS Look Mr. Ul'yanov

AND

Meeting: Russian-Hosted Lunch
Date: October 27, 2005
Time: 1:00 - 2:15 p.m.
Place: Relais de Chambesy, Chambesy
Participants:

U.S. Russia

DAS Look Mr. Ul'yanov

--------------
SUMMARY OF OCTOBER 25 MEETING
--------------


3. (C) BIC U.S. Head of Delegation DAS Karin L. Look met
with Russian Head of Delegation Mikhail Ul'yanov over dinner
on October 25, 2005, at Auberge des Trois Coqs in Chambesy.
The discussion focused on planning for the BIC meetings to be
held during the remainder of the week and on topics the
Russian Delegation planned to raise during those meetings.
Ul'yanov also raised the matter of Russia's Aide Memoire on
the question of strategic stability after START (September
20, 2005) and provided his thoughts with respect to its
content and implementation.

--------------
SCHEDULE AND TOPICS
--------------


4. (C) Ul'yanov indicated a desire for a total of three
meetings during BIC-IV. He asked that the briefings on the
current status of each side's strategic nuclear forces, and
any questions related to the briefings, be provided during
the first meeting, with answers to be exchanged the following
day. He also told Look that he was instructed to (1) propose
an exchange of "national statements" on how each side counts
strategic nuclear warheads (in lieu of a joint definition on

the term "strategic nuclear warhead"), and (2) reiterate
Russia's previous proposals concerning transparency. Look
indicated a willingness to listen to Russia's idea concerning
"national statements," but noted that, with respect to
transparency measures, Russia knows where the United States
stands and its position is unchanged, i.e., there is no need
for the development of transparency measures associated with
the Moscow Treaty. Look informed Ul'yanov that the U.S.
side's briefing will contain the number of its strategic
nuclear warheads as of September 30, 2005. Ul'yanov was very
pleased to hear this news.

--------------
BIC LEADERSHIP
--------------


5. (U) Ul'yanov noted Dr. George Look's departure as the BIC
U.S. Head of Delegation and remarked that, in his view, he
and Dr. Look had established a positive relationship during
their sessions together as U.S. and Russian Heads of
Delegation for the BIC. Ul'yanov asked about Dr. Look's new
responsibilities with regard to long-range planning and
indicated his hope that their paths would cross again.
Regarding U.S. leadership of the BIC (and other commissions)
DAS Look noted that the United States would decide following
the current sessions of the BIC and JCIC who it plans to have
head the BIC Delegation, as well as who would head the JCIC
and SVC Delegations.

--------------
STRATEGIC DIALOGUE
--------------


6. (C) Ul'yanov raised the issue of Russia's Aide Memoire on
strategic stability after START expires and noted that Russia
is hoping for a response from the United States in early
November. He also noted that Russia is looking for a
dialogue with the United States. He said that it was quite
intentional on Russia's part that the Aide Memoire contains
no substantive Russian position. He also made quite clear
that Russia does not see the Aide Memoire as being about the
START or Moscow Treaties per se and, in fact, made it clear
that Russia is not interested in continuing a five-party
START Treaty. Rather, the Aide Memoire is about how Russia
hopes to formulate our dialogue and perhaps develop written
rules for managing it. Ul'yanov indicated that he might make
these points during the course of the BIC meetings as well.
Ul'yanov also expressed the view that agreements can be
useful in managing a relationship. Look said she was not
convinced that this was the case. In her view, the United
States and Russia had grown too dependent on "agreements"
regarding controlling arms. We now were dependent on
agreements like a person who has used a crutch for so long
that he cannot imagine walking without it, i.e., he will not
even try. Now that there is no longer any reason for us to
limp, we must try to develop our relationship on the basis of
something other than "agreements."

--------------
SUMMARY OF OCTOBER 27 MEETING
--------------


7. (U) Ul'yanov reciprocated the U.S.-hosted dinner with a
lunch with Look at the Relais de Chambesy on Thursday,
October 27, 2005. The primary discussion was with regard to
his plans for the BIC meeting that afternoon and to agree
that the afternoon meeting would close BIC-IV.

--------------
TRANSPARENCY
--------------


8. (C) Ul'yanov told Look that he planned to propose that,
in the future, the sides increase transparency by providing
sub-aggregated numbers for strategic nuclear warheads and, if
possible, also provide locational information. Look reminded
Ul'yanov that the United States does not believe that it is
necessary to exchange such information, but noted that we
would, of course, listen and report Russia's proposal.

--------------
AIDE MEMOIRE
--------------


9. (C) Ul'yanov pressed Look concerning when she thought
Washington would respond to Russia's Aide Memoire, and said
he planned to mention it at the afternoon meeting so that the
U.S. Delegation would hear about Russia's interest in a
dialogue. Look said that Washington was studying the Russian
paper and would provide a response as soon as its assessment
was completed. She also noted that she assumed a response
would come from a more senior level. Finally, Look welcomed
the opportunity for the U.S. Delegation to hear Ul'yanov's
ideas and explanations with regard to Russia's Aide Memoire.

10. (U) Look sends.
Moley