MVR DEPUTY ON PLAN COLOMBIA: REDUCING FARC

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 CARACAS 000729

SIPDIS

NSC FOR CBARTON
USCINCSO ALSO FOR POLAD

E.O. 12958: DECL: 02/25/2014
TAGS: PREL PTER VE
SUBJECT: MVR DEPUTY ON PLAN COLOMBIA: REDUCING FARC
PRESENCE ON BORDER

Classified By: POLITICAL COUNSELOR ABELARDO A. ARIAS FOR REASONS 1.4 (d
)

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Summary
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1. (C) Movimiento Quinta Republica (MVR) Deputy Saul
Ortega, President of the National Assembly International
Relations Commission, said increased counter-narcotics and
counter-terrorism cooperation would be an excellent basis for
improved US-Venezuela relations, in a meeting with poloff
March 2. He also pointed to increasing trade between the two
countries as a sign that our political relations should
improve. Ortega asserted that the two governments were bound
to disagree, however, on Cuba and Colombia. Ortega
volunteered the observation that Plan Colombia was reducing
the presence of the FARC on the Venezuela-Colombia boarder,
and criticized FARC violence against Venezuelans, while
refusing to call them "terrorists." End Summary.

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US-Venezuela Relations
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2. (C) Movimiento Quinta Republica (MVR) Deputy Saul
Ortega, President of the National Assembly International
Relations Commission, talked to poloff about Venezuela-U.S.
relations March 2. Ortega posited that there is no
anti-Americanism in the Bolivarian Revolution, rather a
political conflict with the government. He said nobody who
wanted to construct a true democracy could ignore American
history, and pointed out that President Hugo Chavez had
recently started quoting Thomas Jefferson. Asked about
government to government communications, Ortega said that
there were some areas where we shared interests and worked
together, and others where we would inevitably disagree.

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Cooperation
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3. (C) Ortega noted that counter-narcotics and
counter-terrorism were two areas where we shared interests.
He complained that we gave Venezuela no credit for its
efforts to stop drug smuggling, although, according to him it
is one of the most active countries in Latin America. He said
Venezuela had never had so many arrests or seizures as now,
noting that further cooperation in this area would be an
excellent area for improved relations. Discussing
counter-terrorism, Ortega said that the GOV had no interest
in having "those people" here, and that given information
that terrorists were operating in Venezuela, the Venezuelan
authorities would act. He objected, however, to broad
statements about terrorists in Margarita, for example,
without specific proof. He said Venezuela had a large Arab
population, and while he did not doubt there might be some
terrorists, most were legitimate businessmen and should not
be stigmatized as a group.


4. (C) Ortega also highlighted growing economic ties
between the U.S. and Venezuela, noting that commerce between
the two countries had grown from 17 billion bolivares last
year to 24 billion this year. He stressed that this was not
just Venezuelan oil exports to the U.S., but also imports of
goods from the U.S. to Venezuela. He argued that this
healthy economic relationship should serve to create better
political relations.

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Cuba and Colombia
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5. (C) Ortega gave Cuba and Colombia as two examples of
areas where the GOV and USG would inevitably disagree. Ortega
said the GOV would maintain close ties to Cuba. He said Cuba
had excellent health care and education professionals, and
that Venezuela needed their help to improve living conditions
for poor people. Communism was not destined to grow in Latin
America, Ortega said, and he wondered personally why the
Cuban government did not allow elections, given the support
he believed it enjoyed.


6. (C) Discussing Colombia, Ortega said the key fact in
Colombia is that the FARC controls half the country and
cannot be defeated without some kind of negotiation. He
claimed the Uribe government ruled only in the cities due to
military occupation. Ortega gave his interpretation of
Colombian history, under which the Colombian "oligarchy" has
always prevented a political solution by assassinating
Colombian left wing political leaders. Ortega said he hoped
nothing of the kind would happen to the leaders of the "Polo
Democratico" in Colombia today. Ortega also said he did not
understand USG insistence on blaming the Colombian situation
on President Hugo Chavez. He insisted that the conflict long
pre-dates Chavez, and that Colombians were responsible for
solving their own problems. Poloff pointed out that
President Alvaro Uribe enjoyed high levels of support in
Colombia, and that U.S. aid was intended to extend the
effective control of the state over the whole country, and
not to favor of any specific government.

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Plan Colombia
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7. (C) Ortega objected to defining the FARC as terrorists,
asserting that no one had called the FARC terrorists when
Raul Reyes had an office in the Venezuelan MFA, under the
governments of Carlos Andres Perez and Rafael Caldera. At
that time, according to Ortega, the FARC killed Venezuelan
soldiers, kidnapped ranchers, and extorted businessmen.
Ortega said it was the Colombian government's fault for not
controlling its borders. As for Plan Colombia, he called it
an example of U.S. misunderstanding of Latin American
reality. However, Ortega said that one good side-effect had
been a reduction of the FARC presence on the Venezuelan
border, as the guerrillas retreated to their bases. Poloff
suggested that there was a shared interest between the USG
and the GOV to help Colombia establish control over its
territory, and that the USG would welcome active GOV
collaboration.

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Nationalization
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8. (C) Ortega asserted that the GOV believed there were
over two million Colombians in Venezuela, and the GOV did not
know who they were. He said the GOV naturalization drive,
which he said had given 400,000 of these people ID cards,
would help identify guerrillas and other criminals in
Venezuela. He said the recent agreement between Chavez and
Colombian President Alvaro Uribe to share information through
the two Defense Ministries should help avoid a repetition of
the dispute over the capture of the FARC leader Rodrigo
Granda, and increase cooperation. He said it now seemed
likely that one of the Colombians arrested recently in
Bolivar State for kidnapping the mother of a major league
baseball player was a member of the FARC, and that if his
identity was confirmed, the GOV would extradite him to
Colombia. Poloff commented that this would be an excellent
step to show Venezuelan resolve to cooperate with Colombia in
combating the FARC.

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Comment
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9. (C) Ortega nicely summarized the position of Chavista
"moderates" on relations with the U.S.: Good economic
relations plus cooperation in the wars on drugs and terrorism
should add up to U.S. neutrality vis-a-vis Venezuela.
Ortega's admission that Plan Colombia was helping the
Venezuelans on the border challenges the usual rhetoric that
combat operations are pushing guerrillas into Venezuela.
Taken at his word, U.S.-Venezuela interests in Colombia do
not appear that far apart. Unfortunately, Ortega is unlikely
to greatly influence Chavez or other GOV officials who find
value in maintaining an anti-U.S. hard line.
Brownfield