DHS DEPUTY SECRETARY JACKSON'S MEETING WITH

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 BRUSSELS 004516 SIPDIS E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/12/2015 TAGS: PREL SMIG KCRM CVIS EAIR PTER EUN USEU BRUSSELS SUBJECT: DHS DEPUTY SECRETARY JACKSON'S MEETING WITH EUROPEAN COMMISSION, DECEMBER 7, 2005 Classified By: PRMOFF MARC J. MEZNAR. REASONS 1.4 (B) AND (D). ¶1. (C) Summary. On December 7, DHS Deputy Secretary Michael ¶P. Jackson met with the European Commission's (EC) Director General for Justice, Freedom and Security (JFS) Jonathan Faull and discussed a broad range of border security related issues. Topics included the pending decision on passenger name records (PNR),the visa waiver program (VWP),the stolen and lost passport data base administered by Interpol, DHS' vision for the Secure Flight program, radicalization and recruitment of terrorists, data retention, and the sharing of law enforcement data. End Summary. ¶2. (U) Other USG participants included: Dennis Sequeira, DHS Director for Europe, Office of International Affairs; Cynthia Bergman, DHS Deputy Assistant Secretary, Office of Public Affairs; Michael McKinley, USEU Charge d'Affaires; Mark Richard, DOJ Liaison Officer, USEU; Marc Meznar, Migration Affairs Officer, USEU. Other EU officials included: Carlo Presenti, Commissioner Frattini,s Chef de Cabinet; Karolina Kottova, Member of Cabinet; Lotte Knudsen, Head of Unit, External Relations; Friso Roscam-Abbing, JFS Spokesman; and Heike Buss, U.S. Desk Officer. Vice President Frattini was originally scheduled to chair the session for the Commission but had to attend a College meeting on the pending data retention issue. He did however stop by to extend his welcome to DepSec Jackson and to express regrets for his absence from the session. -------------- Overview -------------- ¶3. (C) DepSec Jackson stressed the importance of the U.S.-EU relationship by pointing out that Brussels was his very first overseas destination as the new Deputy Secretary for Homeland Security. Faull noted the strength of the U.S.-EU dialogue on a wide spectrum of justice, border and law enforcement issues. Responding to an inquiry, Faull said that the 7/7 London attacks did not have the cataclysmic effect of the 9/11 attacks in the U.S. and that they produced "no durable change" in the EU's response to terrorism. Acknowledging that it was an awful thing to say, Faull stated that "memories are very short." He explained that the mood change in the EU's counter-terrorism efforts was more the result of 9/11 than of 7/7. -------------- Data Retention -------------- ¶4. (C) Faull began the session by indicating that the EC was nearing completion of a compromise data retention Directive for internet and telecommunication data, which he said should be endorsed by the Parliament and the Council of Ministers by Christmas. The Directive will require retention of data for a period of six to twenty-four months, depending on the type of data being considered. (Comment: By allowing for Member States to choose the period for retention, the procedures to be followed by law enforcement for gaining access to the data, as well as the procedures utilized for sharing the information with third countries, some government agencies and portions of industry who were interested in having a more uniform standard emerge on such issues throughout the EU may be disappointed, including US law enforcement agencies. End Comment) -------------- Radicalization and Recruitment -------------- ¶5. (C) Faull highlighted the issue of radicalization and recruitment of terrorists and said that the EU is increasingly concerned about the second and third generations who are disenchanted. He noted that recent attacks in the Netherlands and the UK, as well as the riots in France, had been perpetrated by young people who appeared to be well integrated in that they spoke the local language, understood the host culture and were citizens. Faull said the EU needed to look beyond the integration of immigrants and address other possible root causes such as alienation, discrimination and racism. He noted that the parents of many of the perpetrators were genuinely shocked by the actions of their children. ¶6. (C) Both sides agreed that radicalization in prisons was a universal concern. DepSec Jackson noted that his subsequent meeting in London of a U.S./UK working group would focus on this issue and offered to establish a similar working group with the EU. Faull agreed about the need to work together and share findings in this area. -------------- Information Sharing and PNR -------------- ¶7. (C) DepSec Jackson raised the issue of data sharing among law enforcement agencies in the context of the recently released proposed Framework Decision on data protection in law enforcement and judicial cooperation. Faull indicated that the data protection supervisors are extremely powerful and that the EU public is very sensitive to data protection issues. Faull indicated that at the present time there is no "third pillar" data protection instrument and one is needed. He stated that they would have to build ways to share information with the U.S. ¶8. (C) The DepSec made it clear that a system of "adequacy findings" as contemplated in the proposed legislation may "kill" the sharing process. Faull responded by indicating that the principle of adequacy is ingrained in the EU concept of data protection and that this requirement ensures EU citizens that their data will be fully protected. ¶9. (C) This issue led to a discussion of the PNR system and the findings of the Advocate General. On the positive side Faull indicated was a very strong finding that the agreement does not violate civil liberties. However, if the court follows the other findings concerning jurisdiction, then Faull suggested we might face a short-term crisis until we were able to devise a replacement regime. The DepSec urged that we do some joint contingency planning in this regard. ¶10. (C) The EC made a plug for PNR data to be pushed by the carriers instead of pulled by DHS. The DepSec said that he was pleased with an ongoing pilot program with three European carriers along these lines. -------------- Secure Flight -------------- ¶11. (C) The DepSec briefed Faull on his thinking regarding the Secure Flight Program. He said he hoped to refocus it towards its original intent of identifying terrorists instead of the wider spectrum of individuals of concern (e.g., "dead-beat dads", etc.). Although the system might legitimately address multiple functions, the DepSec said that Capps II had opened up a whole torrent of concerns that did not have to be part of the discussion. ¶12. (C) Jackson explained that, in effect, DHS was seeking to develop an automated watch list by first identifying all the people that are not of concern and excluding them from further scrutiny (i.e., taking hay off the haystack). Secure Flight would intersect with voluntary registration programs like "Trusted Traveler". The DepSec envisioned the private sector administering the data in accordance with standards set by DHS and coming up with scores for each traveler. These scores would narrow the pool of travelers randomly selected for more intense screenings. ¶13. (C) Faull expressed concern over the criterion DHS might use in deriving individual scores. He warned of a "minefield" and stressed the need to discuss this approach carefully while moving forward. -------------- Visa Waiver Program -------------- ¶14. (C) Faull raised the issue of visas and indicated that in the long term both sides had to consider where the whole visa process was heading. He questioned the sustainability of exempting entire countries from visa requirements instead of individuals. ¶15. (C) Nonetheless, Faull noted that in the short-term, he needed to address the problem of visa reciprocity for the ten Member States not in the U.S. visa waiver program. He said that the EC would send a report to the Council on January 10 regarding progress in securing visa reciprocity. He said that although the EC had been able to "keep a lid on" the reciprocity, political pressure was quite strong and the issue was coming to a head. Faull stated the report would read badly for the U.S. which would stand in contrast to changes made by other countries. He reassured the DepSec that the EC's language would be as warm and friendly as possible and that they would not seek to score political points or embarrass. ¶16. (C) Jackson asked that the EU's inability to fully integrate the new Member States into the Schengen system be part of the report, although Faull remained non-committal. Responding to a question from the Charge, Faull said that he hoped that the discussion by Member States to follow on the heels of the January 10 report would not involve consideration of "retaliatory" measures. ¶17. (C) The DepSec indicated he did not anticipate much further progress would be made prior to the January report date but that he was personally committed to following the issue and seeing it resolved. He noted that several views within the USG needed to be reconciled regarding the future of the VWP. Jackson mentioned President Bush,s announced roadmaps and said that everyone is committed to them. However, he also noted that the EU was not currently at the point of full reciprocity on border issues with the new Member States. ¶18. (C) Faull sought to link the new Member State's full integration into Schengen with their being added to VWP, noting similar requirements with regard to border controls, document reliability, etc. He said evaluations would be carried out in 2006 and that full integration into Schengen should come in 2007. ¶19. (C) Meznar observed unequal treatment of citizens from new Member States would continue until possibly 2011, at which time Eastern Europeans would gain full labor rights in the old Member States. He noted that the ability for Eastern Europeans to work legally throughout the EU would make clandestine labor in the U.S. less attractive. Remittances could also spur economic development and possibly reduce visa refusal rates. The DepSec noted that a quarter to a third of all illegals in the U.S. are visa overstayers and said that illegal immigration was a key issue in the public American discourse. -------------- Lost/stolen passports -------------- ¶20. (C) Both sides agreed on the need for addressing various outstanding technical problems which inhibit the real time use of the lost and stolen passport database administered by Interpol at ports of entry. There was agreement that the upcoming joint trip to Interpol should focus on the technical issues relating to administering the database. However, the DepSec stressed that DHS was very much interested in getting additional biographical data into the database so as to be able to do more analytical work, as well as information on any ongoing national investigations into patterns of lost and stolen passports. Faull noted the privacy interests implicated in this approach but recognized at the same time the value of pattern analysis. No date was fixed for the joint mission to Lyon. -------------- Secret Prisons SIPDIS -------------- ¶21. (C) Faull closed the meeting with a pro-forma expression of concern over the issue of alleged secret prisons. He indicated that he was very interested in Secretary Rice's response to the EU on the issue of "special renditions". (DHS DepSec Jackson has cleared this message.) MCKINLEY .