AC/PDAS RECORD'S SEPTEMBER 28 MEETING WITH DUTCH

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 THE HAGUE 002531 SIPDIS E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/04/2014 TAGS: PARM PREL NL EUN NATO SUBJECT: AC/PDAS RECORD'S SEPTEMBER 28 MEETING WITH DUTCH MFA SECURITY POLICY DIRECTOR JOCHEMS REF: A. STATE 208511 ¶B. STATE 207640 Classified By: Classified by Political Counselor Andrew Schofer for rea sons 1.4 (B and D) ¶1. (C) Summary: AC/PDAS Frank Record met with Dutch MFA Security Policy Director Maurits Jochems on September 28. The two reviewed a broad resume of arms control issues including the NPT, Non-strategic nuclear weapons, missile defense, FMCT, and a proposed U.S. landmine export ban. They also discussed the EU China and Libya arms embargoes and the Iranian nuclear program. End Summary. ¶2. (C) Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for Arms Control Frank Record met with Dutch MFA Security Policy Director Maurits Jochems on September 28. Jochems is the A/S-level official responsible for all "T" issues within the Dutch MFA. PDAS Record expressed U.S. appreciation for the Netherlands' efforts in the Global War on Terrorism including Dutch deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan. He advised Jochems of his recent meeting with NPT RevCon Chair Duarte, which focused on U.S. Article VI commitments. He also said that the U.S. and the Russians were working to develop joint language for the UN First Committee in addition to the improvement initiative. Concerning Non-strategic nuclear weapons (NSNW),he raised the recent New Agenda Coalition paper (which the Dutch had agreed to) and underlined that this did not seem to have been fully vetted with all NATO members. ¶3. (C) PDAS Record noted U.S. concerns about the possible lifting of the EU's China arms embargo. He said that the U.S. had a great deal of difficulty seeing how proposed improvements to the EU's Code of Conduct on arms transfers would satisfy our concerns. Jochems observed that the EU Presidency was in a sense a "poison gift," as the Netherlands was less in a position to present its own national views while holding the chair. Jochems said that the Dutch understand U.S. regional security concerns in Asia, but he repeated familiar Dutch arguments that a strengthened EU Code of Conduct on arms transfers would capture more items than the current code. He noted the December EU-China Summit in The Hague and said the Chinese would not be pleased if the embargo was not lifted. ¶4. (C) Concerning a possible lift of the EU arms embargo against Libya, Jochems acknowledged a connection with the China arms embargo in that if the so-called "toolbox mechanism for post-embargo countries could be developed for the Libya case, it would help with China. Jochems favored asking the Libyans to accept the toolbox retroactively if it could not be agreed prior to a lift. He said the remaining obstacles to a lift of the Libya embargo were the Bulgarian medics situation and the toolbox. ¶5. (C) On Missile Defense, PDAS Record said A/S Rademaker would be in Moscow shortly to discuss where the issue of ground-based interceptors in European countries. Jochems said the Dutch MFA shares the lead for the GONL on this issue with MOD. MFA is very interested in missile defense concepts, while MOD was more focused on their current budget shortfalls. Jochems thought the Dutch were not doing so badly on missile defense in that they were procuring PAC3 missiles for their Patriot launchers. ¶6. (C) Jochems said that one success of the Dutch EU Presidency had been their insistence on a nonproliferation clauses in EU trade and association agreements. He said that the Netherlands, the UK and Germany had stood firm on this issue, and that the EU agreement with Syria was now up for ratification. Nevertheless, Jochems warned that this effort might have implications for the EU's relationship with Israel. On the Iranian nuclear issue, Jochems observed that the EU3 effort had been stagnated but nevertheless an agreement had been arrived at concerning the November IAEA BOG Meeting. The GONL was committed as EU President to "keep the EU together" as well as "keep the U.S. and the EU together" on this issue. Procedurally, the Dutch remain unhappy at the way the EU3 had handles the issue (i.e., by cutting out other members). Jochems noted MFA Secretary General Frank Majoor's recent meeting with NP/PDAS Burk in which he had asked about our envisioned scenario following a UNSC referral. Jochems said he personally supported referral, and that it was not credible to endlessly continue the IAEA process. ¶7. (C) PDAS Record raised the U.S. proposal for a landmine export ban and noted that this, as well as the U.S. Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty (FMCT) proposal, will need to be reconsidered in Geneva by the CD in January 2005. He stressed that the U.S. was not trying to undermine the Ottawa Convention. Jochems said the Dutch were grateful for the U.S. FMCT initiative as it had given the CD a "new lease on life," and might reverse the process of the CD losing accredited Ambassadors. The Netherlands wants to develop an EU view on FMCT that "does not lose sight of the Atlantic relationship." He did note the difference in views over the question of verification, and said it was politically difficult to avoid verification given that its role in the NPT. The Dutch appreciate the U.S. landmines proposal, but the GONL believes this would be better addressed by Ottawa and the CCW. PDAS Record said the U.S. continues to give priority to those institutions but said the real problem is the continued proliferation of landmines, noting they are not produced where they are used, and the U.S. proposal gets to the heart of this issue. He said there was no prospect the U.S. would sign the Ottawa convention. Concerning the FMCT, PDAS Record said the need was for effective verification. ¶8. (U) PDAS Record has cleared this message. SOBEL