Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
02ROME1610
2002-03-29 12:55:00
CONFIDENTIAL
Embassy Rome
Cable title:  

AMBASSADOR TOUR D'HORIZON WITH EU AFFAIRS MINISTER

Tags:  PREL ECON PGOV IT EUN 
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This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 ROME 001610 

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/26/2012
TAGS: PREL ECON PGOV PREL ECON PGOV PREL ECON PGOV IT EUN ITEUN ITEUN
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR TOUR D'HORIZON WITH EU AFFAIRS MINISTER
CONFIDENTIAL


PAGE 02 ROME 01610 01 OF 03 291341Z

CLASSIFIED BY: AMBASSADOR MEL SEMBLER FOR REASONS 1.5 (B) AND (D).

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 ROME 001610

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/26/2012
TAGS: PREL ECON PGOV PREL ECON PGOV PREL ECON PGOV ITALY'>IT EUN ITEUN ITEUN
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR TOUR D'HORIZON WITH EU AFFAIRS MINISTER
CONFIDENTIAL


PAGE 02 ROME 01610 01 OF 03 291341Z

CLASSIFIED BY: AMBASSADOR MEL SEMBLER FOR REASONS 1.5 (B) AND (D).


1. (C) SUMMARY: DURING A MARCH 26 COURTESY CALL ON EU
AFFAIRS MINISTER ROCCO BUTTIGLIONE, THE AMBASSADOR DISCUSSED
THE EU CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION AND THE POLITICAL AND
ECONOMIC ISSUES SURROUNDING EU ENLARGEMENT. THE AMBASSADOR
ALSO ASKED ABOUT THE MINISTER'S RECENT UNHELPFUL COMMENTS ON
IRAQ, AND POINTED OUT THAT THEY WERE OUT OF SYNC WITH THE
POSITION OF PRIME MINISTER BERLUSCONI. HE OFFERED TO GIVE THE
MINISTER A MORE DETAILED BRIEFING ON THE REASONS FOR THE U.S.
AND ITALIAN GOVERNMENT CONCERNS ABOUT IRAQ. END SUMMARY.


2. (U) THE AMBASSADOR CALLED ON EUROPEAN UNION AFFAIRS
MINISTER ROCCO BUTTIGLIONE ON MARCH 26. THE MINISTER WAS
ACCOMPANIED BY HIS DIPLOMATIC ADVISOR. THE AMBASSADOR WAS
ACCOMPANIED BY POLMC, A/ECMIN AND ECONCOUNS.


3. (C) THE AMBASSADOR BEGAN THE MEETING BY NOTING THAT THE
U.S.-EU RELATIONSHIP WAS A CRUCIAL ONE, OF POLITICAL AND
ECONOMIC IMPORTANCE TO THE U.S. THE BILATERAL RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN ITALY AND THE U.S. IS VERY STRONG, HE EMPHASIZED.
THERE WILL, OF COURSE, ALWAYS BE TRADE ISSUES AND OTHER
IRRITANTS. HOWEVER, THE OVERRIDING STRENGTH OF THE
RELATIONSHIP IS THE CRUCIAL ELEMENT. THE MINISTER AGREED,
NOTING THAT THE STRONG BILATERAL ALLIANCE ON ANTI-TERRORISM
AND THE PROTECTION OF PEACE, FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY ARE KEY.
EVEN ON TRADE ISSUES SUCH AS STEEL, ITALY HAS KEPT IN MIND
THE CRUCIAL NATURE OF THE BILATERAL RELATIONSHIP, AND REACTED
LESS DRAMATICALLY ON THE SPECIFIC TRADE ISSUE, SEEKING
DIALOGUE INSTEAD OF CONFRONTATION.
CONFIDENTIAL


PAGE 03 ROME 01610 01 OF 03 291341Z

ITALY WITHIN THE EU
--------------


4. (C) THE MINISTER SUGGESTED THAT THE EU SHOULD BE
CONSIDERED AS ONE PART OF THE NORTH ATLANTIC COMMUNITY.
THE ITALIAN AND UK GOVERNMENTS AGREED ON THIS BASIC TENET, HE
STRESSED, WHILE OTHERS IN THE EU SEEMED LESS AWARE OF ITS
TRUTH. "WE ARE MOVING FROM THE RHINE-CENTERED EU," HE SAID.
ONCE FRANCE AND GERMANY DOMINATED THE EU, AND ONCE THEY
DECIDED AN ISSUE, THE EU POSITION WAS DECIDED. NOW, INSTEAD,
THERE IS A DIFFERENT LEADERSHIP MODEL. "ALTHOUGH THE UK HAS A
GOVERNMENT OF THE LEFT, WHILE WE ARE CENTER-RIGHT, WE ARE
UNITED BY OUR PERCEPTION OF THE CHANGING WORLD. WE BOTH
UNDERSTAND THAT THE OLD MODEL NO LONGER WORKS IN A GLOBALIZED
WORLD." POINTING TO THE WAY WORLD WARS I AND II HAD SEEN
TANKS AND AIRCRAFT DESTROY THE USEFULNESS OF TRENCHES AS
DEFENSES, BUTTIGLIONE REFERRED TO GLOBALIZATION AND LIBERAL
MARKET ECONOMIES, IN WHICH TARIFFS AND NON-TARIFF BARRIERS
COULD NO LONGER BE USED TO DEFEND DOMESTIC INDUSTRIES.
INSTEAD, "WE CAN ONLY DEFEND OUR WORKERS BY GIVING THEM
SKILLS AND EDUCATION AND HELPING THEM TO RETRAIN WHEN THEY
LOSE THEIR JOBS."


5. (C) ITALY AND GERMANY ARE THE TWO COUNTRIES MOST IN FAVOR
OF POLITICAL UNITY IN THE EU. THIS POSITION, HE EXPLAINED,
WAS NOT DEPENDENT ON THE PARTY IN POWER BUT ON THE HISTORY OF
THE TWO NATIONS. "THE MYTH OF THE NATION STATE COLLAPSED FOR
US IN WORLD WAR II, " SAID BUTTIGLIONE. WHILE THE BRITISH
HAD SEEN THEIR RULING CLASS FACE THE SITUATION WITH COURAGE
AND DECISIVENESS, ITALY AND GERMANY SAW THEIR RULING CLASSES
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PAGE 04 ROME 01610 01 OF 03 291341Z
COLLAPSE. WHILE THE BRITISH NATION STATE FADED GRADUALLY
OVER DECADES, THAT OF ITALY AND GERMANY IMPLODED OVERNIGHT.
ITALY AND GERMANY SAW THE EU AS A NECESSITY, WHILE THE
BRITISH DID NOT. HOWEVER, BUTTIGLIONE ARGUED, "THE EU IS A
NECESSITY FOR THE UK TOO." THE EU IS A CREATION OF ITS
MEMBER STATES' NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTIES, WITHIN THE
TRANSATLANTIC FRAMEWORK.

EU CONVENTION
--------------


6. (C) AS FOR THE EU, THE MINISTER STATED, "WE MUST DO
TOGETHER ONLY THOSE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO WELL TOGETHER."
HE INSISTED ON THE NEED FOR SERIOUS REFORMS. THE EU HAS TOO
MUCH BUREAUCRACY, AND AT THE SAME TIME DOES NOT HAVE
SUFFICIENT DEMOCRATIC CONTROL OR TRANSPARENCY. THESE
PROBLEMS NEED TO BE RESOLVED IN THE EU CONSTITUTIONAL
CONVENTION.


7. (C) "I'M A GREAT ADMIRER OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION,"
CONFIDED BUTTIGLIONE. HE CHARACTERIZED IT AS FLEXIBLE,
RESPONSIVE TO THE REAL NEEDS OF CITIZENS, UNENCUMBERED BY
PHILOSOPHICAL CONCEPTS. MOST IMPORTANTLY, HE ARGUED, IT HAS
SERVED THE U.S. FROM ITS EARLIEST DAYS THROUGH THE GROWTH OF
A POWERFUL FEDERAL STATE. THE EU, HE INSISTED, NEEDS A
FLEXIBLE, RESPONSIVE AND PRACTICAL CONSTITUTION TO TAKE IT

CONFIDENTIAL

CONFIDENTIAL PTQ4315

PAGE 01 ROME 01610 02 OF 03 291342Z
ACTION EUR-00

INFO LOG-00 NP-00 AGRE-00 AID-00 ACQ-00 CEA-01 CIAE-00
COME-00 CTME-00 DODE-00 DOEE-00 DOTE-00 SRPP-00 DS-00
EB-00 EXIM-01 OIGO-00 E-00 FAAE-00 VC-00 FRB-00
H-01 TEDE-00 INR-00 IO-00 ITC-01 LAB-01 L-00
VCE-00 AC-01 NEA-00 NSAE-00 NSCE-00 OMB-01 OPIC-01
PA-00 PC-01 PM-00 PRS-00 ACE-00 P-00 SCT-00
SP-00 SSO-00 STR-00 TRSE-00 USIE-00 EPAE-00 PMB-00
DSCC-00 PRM-00 DRL-02 G-00 NFAT-00 SAS-00 SWCI-00
/011W
-------------- 7C6E66 291342Z /38
P 291255Z MAR 02
FM AMEMBASSY ROME
TO SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 3024
INFO ARAB LEAGUE COLLECTIVE PRIORITY
EU MEMBER STATES COLLECTIVE PRIORITY
AMEMBASSY ANKARA PRIORITY
AMEMBASSY CAIRO PRIORITY
AMEMBASSY TEL AVIV PRIORITY
AMCONSUL MILAN PRIORITY
AMCONSUL FLORENCE PRIORITY
AMCONSUL NAPLES PRIORITY

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 02 OF 03 ROME 001610

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/26/2012
TAGS: PREL ECON PGOV PREL ECON PGOV PREL ECON PGOV IT EUN ITEUN ITEUN
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR TOUR D'HORIZON WITH EU AFFAIRS MINISTER
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 02 ROME 01610 02 OF 03 291342Z

FROM THE PRESENT DAY, THROUGH A EUROPE OF NATIONS TO THE
FEDERAL EUROPE THAT HE BELIEVED WOULD INEVITABLY BE CREATED
IN THE FUTURE.

THE TRANSATLANTIC RELATIONSHIP
--------------


8. (C) THE ATLANTIC COMMITMENT, SUGGESTED THE MINISTER, MUST
ALLOW US TO PARTICIPATE TOGETHER IN MAINTAINING FREEDOM AND
PEACE AND A SAFE PLACE FOR DEMOCRACIES TO EXIST. BEFORE
SEPTEMBER 11, HE ARGUED, THIS WAS NOT SO CLEAR. BUT SINCE
SEPTEMBER 11, EUROPEANS HAVE EXPRESSED IN FAR GREATER NUMBERS
THE NEED FOR BOTH AN EU AND AN ATLANTIC COMMITMENT. THE
EVENTS OF THAT DAY REMINDED EUROPEANS THAT THEY AND THE U.S.
SHARE A COMMON CIVILIZATION -- A COMMON CULTURAL,
JUDEO-CHRISTIAN HERITAGE. "EVERY ITALIAN HAD EITHER BEEN TO
THE WORLD TRADE CENTER OR KNEW SOMEONE WHO HAD. WE SAW THE
VICTIMS AS PEOPLE, NOT SYMBOLS, AND WE PARTICIPATED IN THE
GRIEF."

EU ENLARGEMENT
--------------


9. (C) THE AMBASSADOR ASKED ABOUT CANDIDATE COUNTRIES FOR
ENLARGEMENT. WHICH WERE CERTAIN? WHICH WERE STILL IN PLAY?
BUTTIGLIONE RESPONDED THAT ALL BUT CYPRUS AND TURKEY WERE
CERTAIN. TURKEY WOULD NOT MAKE IT. PROSPECTS FOR CYPRUS
WERE IMPROVING, BUT IT WAS NOT YET CERTAIN TO ENTER. ASIDE
FROM THE GREECE-TURKEY ISSUES, CYPRUS HAD TO DO MORE AGAINST
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 03 ROME 01610 02 OF 03 291342Z


10. (C) AS THE CONVERSATION TURNED TO RUSSIA, THE MINISTER
STATED THAT RUSSIA WOULD NOT BECOME A MEMBER OF THE EU IN THE
FORESEEABLE FUTURE. HE COULD CERTAINLY SEE POSSIBILITIES OF
ASSOCIATION AND PARTNERSHIP FOR RUSSIA AND THE CIS,
STRENGTHEN. HOWEVER, THE BOTTOM LINE WAS THAT THE EU COULD
NEVER AFFORD TO GIVE RUSSIA ACCESS TO THE GENEROUS COMMON
AGRICULTURAL POLICY AND STRUCTURAL FUNDS. RUSSIA WOULD
BANKRUPT THE EU.

IRAQ
--------------


11. (C) MINISTER BUTTIGLIONE HAD MADE SOME UNHELPFUL
STATEMENTS REGARDING IRAQ, CLAIMING THAT U.S. MILITARY ACTION
AGAINST IRAQ WOULD BE INHUMANE AND SHOULD NOT TAKE PLACE.
THE AMBASSADOR EXPLAINED THE CONTEXT OF HIGH LEVEL
DISCUSSIONS ON IRAQ AMONG WORLD LEADERS, AND THAT PRIME
MINISTER BERLUSCONI WAS IN ACCORD WITH THE U.S. PRESIDENT.
EMBASSY POLMC SUGGESTED THAT THE MINISTER MIGHT FIND IT
HELPFUL TO BE BRIEFED ON IRAQ AND ITS PROGRAM TO BUILD
WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, AS WELL AS THE EFFORTS THE U.S.
HAS MADE TO RESOLVE THIS. THE MINISTER EXPRESSED INTEREST.


12. (C) BUTTIGLIONE WENT ON TO EXPLAIN THAT HIS COMMENTS IN
NO WAY INDICATED SUPPORT FOR IRAQ. HE NOTED THAT ITALY WAS
NEAR ENOUGH TO IRAQ TO BE THREATENED WITH "NON-CONVENTIONAL
WEAPONS." HOWEVER, HE SAW THE ISSUE IN TERMS OF THE
PALESTINIAN SITUATION. "IN ORDER TO CREATE A MILITARY
BUILD-UP AGAINST IRAQ, WE NEED TO CREATE A COALITION OF ARAB
STATES AS PART OF IT. THERE IS NO WAY THEY WILL JOIN US
CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 04 ROME 01610 02 OF 03 291342Z
UNLESS WE HAVE SOLVED THE PALESTINIAN PROBLEM. ONCE WE DO
SOLVE THE PALESTINIAN PROBLEM, SADDAM WILL SEE THAT HE HAS NO
SUPPORT, AND GIVE IN." HE ADDED THAT ONCE THE PALESTINIAN
ISSUE WAS RESOLVED, ITALY PROPOSED A "MARSHALL PLAN" FOR THE
MID-EAST THAT WOULD STABILIZE THE REGION. ALL THIS WOULD
LEAD TO EITHER AN OPENING FROM SADDAM OR A BREAKDOWN OF HIS
REGIME. NO OUTSIDE FORCE WOULD BE REQUIRED.


13. (C) THE AMBASSADOR REJECTED THIS LINE OF REASONING. HE
EMPHASIZED THAT SADDAM HAS NO MORE INTEREST IN PALESTINE THAN
DOES OSAMA, AND REMINDED THE MINISTER THAT IRAQ HAS A PROGRAM
OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, AND THAT INSPECTORS ARE NOT
ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTRY. HE RENEWED THE OFFER OF A BRIEFING
ON THE SITUATION, AND THE MINISTER ACCEPTED.


14. (C) COMMENT: BUTTIGLIONE, PHILOSOPHER BY TRAINING, IS A
THOUGHTFUL COMMENTATOR WITH A DEEPLY HUMANISTIC -- AND ROMAN
CATHOLIC -- WORLD VIEW. HIS ITALY IS GROUNDED IN EUROPEAN
GEOGRAPHY, BUT ALSO IN EUROPEAN CULTURE, RELIGION AND
HISTORY. A LONGSTANDING CRITIC OF MILITARY ACTION AGAINST
IRAQ, HE APPARENTLY BELIEVES THAT SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC
MEASURES CAN EFFECT CHANGES IN POLITICAL BEHAVIOR, EVEN IN
DIFFICULT CASES SUCH AS IRAN AND IRAQ. HIS PREFERENCE FOR
DIALOGUE AND COMPROMISE OVER CONFRONTATION MAY PUT HIM
OCCASIONALLY AT ODDS WITH OUR MORE DIRECT STYLE, ALTHOUGH HE
CAN STILL BE COUNTED FIRMLY AMONG THE FRIENDS OF THE U.S.

CONFIDENTIAL

CONFIDENTIAL PTQ4316

PAGE 01 ROME 01610 03 OF 03 291342Z
ACTION EUR-00

INFO LOG-00 NP-00 AGRE-00 AID-00 ACQ-00 CEA-01 CIAE-00
COME-00 CTME-00 DODE-00 DOEE-00 DOTE-00 SRPP-00 DS-00
EB-00 EXIM-01 E-00 FAAE-00 VC-00 FRB-00 H-01
TEDE-00 INR-00 IO-00 ITC-01 LAB-01 L-00 VCE-00
AC-01 NEA-00 NSAE-00 NSCE-00 OMB-01 OPIC-01 PA-00
PC-01 PM-00 PRS-00 ACE-00 P-00 SCT-00 SP-00
SSO-00 STR-00 TRSE-00 USIE-00 PMB-00 DSCC-00 DRL-02
G-00 NFAT-00 SAS-00 /011W
-------------- 7C6E6A 291343Z /38
P 291255Z MAR 02
FM AMEMBASSY ROME
TO SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 3025
INFO ARAB LEAGUE COLLECTIVE PRIORITY
EU MEMBER STATES COLLECTIVE PRIORITY
AMEMBASSY ANKARA PRIORITY
AMEMBASSY CAIRO PRIORITY
AMEMBASSY TEL AVIV PRIORITY
AMCONSUL MILAN PRIORITY
AMCONSUL FLORENCE PRIORITY
AMCONSUL NAPLES PRIORITY

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 03 OF 03 ROME 001610

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/26/2012
TAGS: PREL ECON PGOV PREL ECON PGOV PREL ECON PGOV IT EUN ITEUN ITEUN
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR TOUR D'HORIZON WITH EU AFFAIRS MINISTER

CONFIDENTIAL

PAGE 02 ROME 01610 03 OF 03 291342Z
SEMBLER

CONFIDENTIAL

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2002ROME01610 - Classification: CONFIDENTIAL