Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
89STATE368870
1989-11-16 23:40:00
SECRET
Secretary of State
Cable title:  

MEETING WITH ANC LEADER THABO MBEKI

Tags:  ANC SF PREL 
pdf how-to read a cable
P R 162340Z NOV 89
FM SECSTATE WASHDC
TO AMEMBASSY PRETORIA PRIORITY
AMEMBASSY LUSAKA PRIORITY 0000
INFO AMCONSUL JOHANNESBURG
AMCONSUL CAPE TOWN
AMCONSUL DURBAN
AMEMBASSY LONDON
AMEMBASSY DAR ES SALAAM
AMEMBASSY HARARE
USOFFICE WINDHOEK
USMISSION USUN NEW YORK
AMEMBASSY MAPUTO
S E C R E T STATE 368870 

LONDON FOR KOLKER

E.O. 12356: DECL: OADR
TAGS: ANC SF PREL
SUBJECT: MEETING WITH ANC LEADER THABO MBEKI

REF: STATE 319466 (NOTAL)

S E C R E T STATE 368870

LONDON FOR KOLKER

E.O. 12356: DECL: OADR
TAGS: ANC SF PREL
SUBJECT: MEETING WITH ANC LEADER THABO MBEKI

REF: STATE 319466 (NOTAL)


1. SECRET - ENTIRE TEXT.


2. SUMMARY: ANC INTERNATIONAL DEPARTMENT DIRECTOR THABO
MBEKI MADE HIS SECOND VISIT TO WASHINGTON IN AS MANY
MONTHS NOVEMBER 9 - 14. MIXING CALLS IN WASHINGTON WITH
TRAVEL ELSEWHERE (HE ARRIVED IN NEW YORK NOVEMBER 1),
MBEKI OFFICIALLY OPENED THE ANC'S WASHINGTON OFFICE WITH
A RECEPTION HOSTED BY CONGRESSMAN DELLUMS ON NOV 9 AND
HAD MEETINGS AT THE DEPARTMENT ON NOV 13. IN A MEETING
WITH ACTING AF ASSISTANT SECRETARY WARREN CLARK, MBEKI
SAID THAT THE RECENT RELEASE OF POLITICAL PRISONERS HAS
BEGUN A PROCESS THAT IS BOUND TO HAVE AN IMPORTANT IMPACT
ON SOUTH AFRICA'S FUTURE. HOWEVER, HE CONTINUED TO ARGUE
THAT PRESIDENT DE KLERK DOES NOT DESERVE CREDIT FOR THESE
AND OTHER RECENT POSITIVE MOVES. EXPANDING ON REMARKS
MADE IN OCTOBER TO AS COHEN (REFTEL),MBEKI ALSO
SUGGESTED THE ANC ACCEPTS THE NEED FOR BOTH SIDES TO
COMPROMISE ON THE ISSUE OF GROUPS. HE INDICATED,
HOWEVER, THAT WHILE COMPROMISE ON CULTURAL/EDUCATION
ISSUES MAY BE POSSIBLE (THOUGH DIFFICULT),SCHEMES TO
PROTECT WHITE POLITICAL POWER ARE UNACCEPTABLE. END
SUMMARY.

--------------
LEGALIZING THE ANC
--------------


3. HA ASSISTANT SECRETARY SCHIFTER, NSC STAFFER DAVID
PASSAGE, S/P STAFFER WALTER KANSTEINER, AF/S DIRECTOR
PERITO AND AF/S OIC GALLUCCI ALSO PARTICIPATED IN CLARK'S
MEETING WITH MBEKI. MBEKI TOLD THE ASSEMBLY THAT ONE
COULD NOT DISMISS RECENT MOVES BY DE KLERK TO FREE
POLITICAL PRISONERS AND ALLOW PEACEFUL PROTEST AS SIMPLY
COSMETIC. DE KLERK, HE SAID, HAS OBVIOUSLY BEGUN A
PROCESS THAT CANNOT BE STOPPED. IT MUST LEAD AT SOME
POINT TO LEGALIZATION OF THE ANC. THE RELEASED LEADERS
ARE UNDERSTOOD BY EVERYONE TO BE LEADERS OF THE ANC. IN
FACT, CONTINUED MBEKI, THE ANC WILL ANNOUNCE SHORTLY THAT
THE RELEASED SENIORS ARE PART OF THE OFFICIAL ANC
LEADERSHIP AND WILL ACT FOR AND SPEAK FOR THE
ORGANIZATION IN SOUTH AFRICA. OTHER POLITICAL PRISONERS
LESS PROMINENT BUT ALSO JAILED BECAUSE OF THEIR ANC
ACTIVITIES ARE ALSO READY TO PLAY A ROLE. THESE ARE THE
INGREDIENTS FOR A SUBSTANTIAL ANC MEMBERSHIP INSIDE SOUTH
AFRICA.


4. MBEKI SUGGESTED THAT THIS INTERNAL ANC WILL OPERATE
OPENLY AND THAT THE GOVERNMENT WILL THEN HAVE TO LIFT
RESTRICTIONS ON THE UDF AND OTHERS. THIS WILL ALLOW THE
OPPOSITION TO BEGIN ORGANIZING. THE GOVERNMENT ACCEPTS
THAT THIS PROCESS MUST LEAD SOON TO NEGOTIATIONS BECAUSE

THE ANC WILL GROW STRONGER AS IT EXPANDS OPEN
OPERATIONS. THE SAG ALSO UNDERSTANDS THAT IT CANNOT
RELEASE MANDELA UNTIL IT IS READY FOR NEGOTIATIONS.
THEREFORE, ACCORDING TO MBEKI, MANDELA'S RELEASE WILL
SIGNAL THAT DE KLERK IS READY.

--------------
EVALUATION OF DE KLERK
--------------


5. WHILE HE ACCEPTED THAT THIS PROCESS WILL HAVE GREAT
IMPORTANCE FOR SOUTH AFRICA, MBEKI REFUSED TO CREDIT DE
KLERK WITH GOOD INTENTIONS. REFERRING TO DE KLERK'S
MEETING WITH "THE PRIESTS" (TUTU, BOESAK AND CHIKANE),
MBEKI SAID THAT IT IS STILL AN EDUCATION PROCESS FOR
F.W. WHILE DE KLERK LECTURED THE PRIESTS FOR THE FIRST
30 MINUTES OF THEIR MEETING ON HOW THEY HANDLED THE
PRESS, THERE WAS THEN A GOOD DISCUSSION ON WHAT THE SAG
MUST DO. MBEKI REMARKED THAT IN THEIR REPORT ON THE
MEETING, THE PRIESTS NOTED THAT WHILE THIS DISCUSSION DID
NOT APPEAR TO BE NEW GROUND FOR GERRIT VILJOEN, DE KLERK
WAS NOT AWARE OF THE ISSUES. MBEKI REPEATED HIS ARGUMENT
THAT DE KLERK REMAINS WEDDED TO THE GROUPS CONCEPT AND
HAS UNDERTAKEN POSITIVE STEPS ONLY IN RESPONSE TO
INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL PRESSURE. (NOTE: THIS WAS THE
CLOSEST MBEKI CAME TO DIRECTLY RAISING THE SANCTIONS
ISSUE.)

--------------
COMPROMISE
--------------


6. IN A WIDE-RANGING DISCUSSION ABOUT THE PLACE OF
GROUPS IN SOUTH AFRICA, MBEKI NOTED THAT THE POLITICAL
STRUGGLE IN SOUTH AFRICA IS REALLY ONE BETWEEN THOSE
COMMITTED TO A NON-RACIAL SOUTH AFRICA AND THOSE WHO SEEK
THE PROTECTION OF GROUPS. IN THE END, HE SAID, IT WILL
COME DOWN TO THESE TWO SIDES FACING EACH OTHER AT THE
NEGOTIATING TABLE. BUT MBEKI SAID HE ALSO RECOGNIZED
THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE COMPROMISE ON BOTH SIDES. HE
VENTURED THAT IT SEEMS NECESSARY TO DEVELOP SOME FORMULA
TO GUARANTEE LANGUAGE RIGHTS. BUT THIS WOULD BE
DIFFICULT IN PRACTICE SINCE IT WOULD BE UNACCEPTABLE TO
MANY TO PRESERVE THE SYSTEM IN WHICH SEPARATE STREAMS OF
CHILDREN GO OFF TO THEIR SEPARATE AFRIKANER AND
ZULU-LANGUAGE SCHOOLS. THE IDEAL SITUATION, MBEKI
CONTINUED, WOULD BE FOR THE SOUTH AFRICAN POPULATION TO
MIX. BUT THE RIGHT TO PEOPLE'S OWN CULTURE, LANGUAGE AND
RELIGION MUST BE GRANTED. ACCEPTING THIS REALITY IS ONLY
THE FIRST STEP. THE HARD PART WOULD BE "CODIFYING" THESE
RIGHTS WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A COMMON SOUTH AFRICA AND
WITHOUT RETREATING TO SEPARATE DEVELOPMENT.


7. MBEKI INDICATED THAT POLITICAL COMPROMISE WOULD BE
MUCH MORE DIFFICULT. HE REJECTED OUT-OF-HAND AN UPPER
HOUSE FOR GROUP REPRESENTATION OR ANY ATTEMPT TO WRITE A
"GROUP REPRESENTATION" CONSTITUTION. VIS-A-VIS THE
LATTER, MBEKI SPECIFICALLY REJECTED ANY GROUP-BASED
FEDERALISM, ARGUING THAT THE ISSUE OF FEDERALISM IN
GENERAL IS DIFFICULT BECAUSE IT SUGGESTS IN THE SOUTH
AFRICAN CONTEXT THE EMERGENCE OF RACIAL MINI-STATES. HE
INDICATED HOWEVER THAT GEOGRAPHICALLY BASED PROVINCES
MIGHT MAKE SENSE. ON THE MATTER OF PARLIAMENTARY
REPRESENTATION, MBEKI SAID THAT A ZIMBABWE-TYPE SOLUTION
OF RESERVED SEATS WOULD NOT BE IDEAL. "OUR WHITE
COMPATRIOTS", HE NOTED, SEE THIS AS PUTTING THE WHITES
"OUT OF THE LOOP." BUT IN THE END, SUGGESTED MBEKI, THAT
MIGHT HAVE TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION.

--------------
HOMELAND LEADERS AND BUTHELEZI
--------------


8. IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION FROM AMBASSADOR SHIFTER,
MBEKI REPEATED AGAIN THE NEW ANC HARD LINE ON CHIEF
BUTHELEZI. HE SUGGESTED THAT HE WOULD FIND IT EASIER TO
SIT AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE AT THE SIDE OF HOMELAND
LEADERS SUCH AS TRANSKEI GENERAL HOLOMISA THAN WITH
BUTHELEZI. ACCORDING TO MBEKI, HOLOMISA SHARES THE
NON-RACIAL COMMITMENT AND WOULD NOT SEEK TO REPRESENT THE
TRANSKEI HOMELAND AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE. (MBEKI SAID
THAT IN ALL, SIX OF THE 10 HOMELANDS LEADERS ARE IN THE
NON-RACIAL CAMP. HE ADDED AT ANOTHER DEPARTMENT MEETING
THAT THE ANC BELIEVED IT WOULD BE MORE IMPORTANT TO
INCLUDE HOMELAND LEADERS HOLOMISA AND ENOS MABUZA IN THE
CONFERENCE ON A DEMOCRATIC FUTURE THAN SMALL BLACK
CONSCIOUSNESS AND AFRICANIST GROUPS.) WHILE BUTHELEZI
WOULD BE IN PRINCIPLE WELCOME IF HE MADE THE SAME
COMMITMENT, AT PRESENT, MBEKI SAID, IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT
TO SEE HIM IN THIS LIGHT WHILE HE IS NOT COOPERATING IN
EFFORTS TO BRING AN END TO THE VIOLENCE IN NATAL.

--------------
CEASE FIRE?
--------------


9. IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION, MBEKI SAID THERE HAS BEEN
NO ANC DECISION TO DESIST FROM VIOLENCE OR UNDERTAKE A DE
FACTO CEASEFIRE. RATHER, THE ANC-MK IS CONCENTRATING ON
BUILDING A MILITARY CAPABILITY WITHIN SOUTH AFRICA. THE
ANC RECOGNIZES THAT ITS WAR FROM OUTSIDE SOUTH AFRICA HAS
BEEN LARGELY INEFFECTIVE. SO IT HAS GONE FROM BOMBING
AND HITTING SELECTED TARGETS TO BUILDING A MILITARY MK
STRUCTURE INSIDE THE COUNTRY.

--------------
ANC/PAC TALKS
--------------


10. MBEKI DENIED THAT THERE HAVE BEEN ANY ANC/PAC
TALKS. HE SAID THAT PAC LEADER JEFF MASEMOLA WAS ADDED
TO THE LIST OF ANC RELEASEES AT THE REQUEST OF NELSON
MANDELA. MANDELA THEN MET WITH MASEMOLA TO ASK HIM TO
BEHAVE PROPERLY UPON HIS RELEASE SO AS NOT TO REFLECT
BADLY ON POLITICAL PRISONERS. MBEKI EXPLAINED THAT
MASEMOLA HAD FALLEN IN WITH CRIMINAL ELEMENTS WHILE
IMPRISONED. (MBEKI TOLD AN EARLIER MEETING THAT THE PAC
IS "IRRELEVANT.")

--------------
UNGA RESOLUTIONS
--------------


11. MBEKI NOTED THAT THERE HAS BEEN A GREAT DEAL OF
COOPERATION AT THE UN TO TRY TO PRODUCE CONSENSUS ON
POSSIBLE RESOLUTIONS. HE ADDED THAT EVERYONE SHARES THE
VIEW THAT CONSENSUS AT THE UPCOMING SPECIAL SESSION ON
APARTHEID IS NECESSARY. MBEKI ASKED WHAT THE U.S. FINDS
INAPPROPRIATE IN THE OAU HARARE DECLARATION. CLARK
RESPONDED THAT WE CANNOT ACCEPT THE REFERENCES TO AN
INTERIM GOVERNMENT OR LANGUAGE SUGGESTING THE ANC IS THE
SOLE LEGITIMATE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN
PEOPLE. CALLS FOR SANCTIONS ARE ALSO UNACCEPTABLE.
MBEKI SAID THAT SANCTIONS NEED NOT BE MENTIONED IN THE
SPECIAL SESSION DECLARATION. HE ALSO THOUGHT IT POSSIBLE
TO DEAL WITH HOW TO REFER TO THE ARMED STRUGGLE AND TO
ADDRESS THE INTERIM GOVERNMENT POINT WITHOUT USING THAT
PARTICULAR PHRASE. AT THE LEAST, MBEKI CONTINUED, WE
COULD AGREE ON WHAT ELEMENTS ARE IN THE "SPIRIT OF
HARARE" AND WHAT IS NOT. HE NOTED THAT MANY OF THE
ELEMENTS IN THE ANC-DRAFTED DOCUMENT WERE INTENTIONALLY
DRAWN FROM SECRETARY SHULTZ'S 1987 SPEECH ON SOUTH AFRICA
AND BRITISH FOREIGN MINISTER HOWE'S 1988 EFFORT. THE ANC
WAS TRYING TO ADDRESS THE REQUEST TO DEFINE BETTER WHAT
IT IS FOR. PERITO REPLIED THAT THESE ARE THE ELEMENTS WE
FOUND POSITIVE AND THE REASON WE SAID SO PUBLICLY. BUT
HE EMPHASIZED THAT WE COULD NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING SMACKING
OF A 435-LIKE EFFORT OR FULL OF PRECONDITIONS. MBEKI
INVITED FURTHER DISCUSSION OF THESE POINTS, PERHAPS IN
LUSAKA.


BAKER