MOJ REPORTS SOME PROGRESS ON LEGAL REFORMS; STILL

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 RIYADH 000152

SENSITIVE
SIPDIS

DEPARTMENT FOR DRL JLIEBERMAN AND NEA/ARP JBERNDT AND
JHARRIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 01/30/2020
TAGS: KDEM KISL KJUS PGOV PHUM PINR PREL SA
SUBJECT: MOJ REPORTS SOME PROGRESS ON LEGAL REFORMS; STILL
NO LAW REGULATING CHILD MARRIAGE

REF: A. 09 RIYADH 1086

B. 09 RIYADH 1512

C. 09 RIYADH 361

D. 09 RIYADH 875

E. 09 RIYADH 1026

F. 09 RIYADH 596

RIYADH 00000152 001.2 OF 004


Classified By: Ambassador James B. Smith for reasons 1.4 (b and d)


1. (S) SUMMARY: Ambassador Smith, engaged in a frank and
wide-ranging discussion with Minister of Justice Dr. Mohammed
Al-Issa on January 27. Dr. Al-Issa spoke candidly about the
challenges he faced in implementing King Abdullah's reform
agenda, citing several examples of recent progress such as
the creation of an appellate court system; the drafting of
new Laws of Judicial Procedure and Laws of Criminal
Procedure, the development of a Code of Judicial Principles;
and increased training opportunities for judges. Dr. Al-Issa
clarified that open court sessions were the norm in Saudi
Arabia and noted that the MOJ suffered from "baseless media
coverage." He revealed that the MOJ is continuing to
examine the issues of allowing women lawyers to practice in
court, and still planned a "law prohibiting child marriage."
Throughout, Dr. Al-Issa emphasized that the King's reforms
would remain consistent with Saudi Arabia's culture and
constitution, the Quran. No other MOJ officials or
notetakers were present during the meeting, which may have
been a reflection of Dr. Al-Issa's desire to speak as frankly
as possible about the debate taking place in the Kingdom's
legal community. End summary.


2. (U) Dr. Al-Issa first praised the Ambassador for the
proactive role he had taken in strengthening the U.S. - Saudi
relationship during the first several months on the job,
commenting on the Ambassador's admirable record of USAF
service. The Ambassador replied that he was pleased to be in
the Kingdom during a very unique time, when the visions of
President Obama and of King Abdullah so closely coincided,
and remarked on the challenges Dr. Al-Issa was facing as he
tried to implement a key part of the King's reform agenda.


AL-ISSA: PUBLIC OPINION SUPPORTS JUDICIAL REFORM
-------------- ---


3. (C) According to Dr. Al-Issa, reforms currently underway
include the creation of a three-tiered court system,
consisting of courts of first instance, appellate courts, and
a supreme court; the development of a code of judicial
principles; and new judicial training programs. The
appellate courts had recently become operational, Dr. Al-Issa
continued, and the SAG was about to pass both new Laws of
Judicial Procedure before Shariah Courts and new Laws of
Criminal Procedure -- efforts in which Dr. Al-Issa himself
had been personally involved. The new laws were developed
following numerous visits and scientific exchanges with
"friendly nations," Al-Issa stressed, and encompassed best
litigation practices as observed elsewhere. To resolve the
issue of conflicting verdicts, a code of judicial principles
was being developed to streamline decisions. Last but not
least, the MOJ had begun to implement judicial exchange
programs with other countries aimed at broadening Saudi
judges' exposure to other legal systems.


4. (C) The Ambassador then asked about the impact of public
opinion on judicial reform. In general, public opinion was
supportive of the reform efforts, Dr. Al-Issa said, noting
that King Abdullah asked the MOJ to conduct a "self survey"
to measure public opinion on its projects. Following four
months of scientific review and an MOJ-conducted survey, the
MOJ concluded that the public was happy with the MOJ's
activities. He noted that the "scientific review" process
involved the scholarly exchange of judges. The judicial
reform program was "very ambitious," Dr. Al-Issa concluded,
as there was a set agenda and a timeline for the project.


INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE PLANNED FOR 2010
--------------


5. (C) As part of its efforts to broaden Saudi judges'
exposure the SAG was planning an international legal
conference in May 2010. Dr. Al-Issa hoped that the planned
amendments to both the Law of Procedure before Shariah Courts
and the Law of Criminal Procedure would be completed in time

RIYADH 00000152 002.2 OF 004


for discussion at the conference. He also detailed the MOJ's
current and future efforts to enroll judges and lawyers in
educational conferences, workshops and seminars. "I have no
doubt that the Saudi judicial system will become a beacon for
all the judicial systems in the region," Dr. Al-Issa
concluded.


COURTS AND THE MEDIA
--------------


6. (C) Ambassador Smith commented on recent press reports of
open court sessions in Medina, and asked whether Dr. Al-Issa
thought this practice should be emulated throughout the
Kingdom. Dr. Al-Issa responded that open court sessions were
the norm in the Kingdom -- the only exceptions were for cases
involving family feuds, or cases involving litigants who had
asked specifically for closed sessions. There might be
individuals in the court system who denied people access, he
acknowledged, but this was wrong. He had never heard of a
case where a person wanted to attend a court session and was
not able to, and if he did he would take action to rectify
this illegal situation. "We suffer from a great deal of
baseless media coverage," he said, citing the case of the
student in Jubail who faced two months in prison and 90
lashes for assaulting a school principal and for bringing a
mobile camera phone to school in violation of school policy,
as a recent example of the media getting its facts wrong.
The press had reported the student was a 12-year old minor,
and the public had criticized the harshness of the verdict
against a minor. In fact, the accused was 21 years old. He
thought this case also illustrated the point that in certain
cases closed court sessions were needed, and a case-by-case
determination was necessary.


TIME FOR WOMEN LAWYERS?
--------------


7. (C) Ambassador Smith then raised the issue of women
lawyers. According to press reports, the MOJ planned to
issue restrictive licenses to female lawyers, giving them,
for the first time, access to certain areas of the courts so
that they could represent female clients. At present, women
lawyers could not represent their clients in court. Dr.
Al-Issa confirmed that the MOJ was currently reviewing the
Law of Lawyers, which stipulates that a lawyer must be a man.
The MOJ's study was based on the premise that the law does
not prohibit women lawyers and that women have the right to
practice law from both a Shariah and a legal perspective. He
noted that, historically, female lawyers had existed, and the
Legal Practice Code did not stipulate that lawyers must be
male. The current situation rested on public opinion.
However, social norms were changing and women lawyers were
becoming a necessity due to the increasing number of cases
involving women.


STILL NO LAW ON MINIMUM AGE FOR MARRIAGE
--------------


8. (C) Ambassador Smith asked about progress on setting a
minimum legal age for marriage (reftel A),noting the recent
case of the marriage of a 12-year old girl in Qassim to a man
in his eighties. These cases were not in the press
coincidentally, Dr. Al-Issa explained, they were part of a
conscious effort to develop social opinion, encourage social
change, and question certain ideologies and beliefs. Dr.
Al-Issa noted that such cases were never made public in the
past, but happened in secrecy, and officials were not aware
of the extent of the problem. He said the facts of these
cases were often "heart-wrenching" and involved extortion.
Dr. Al-Issa said there will be a law prohibiting child
marriage "in the near future" and insisted that the MOJ
intends to be very firm on this issue.


CHALLENGES TO IMPLEMENTING CHANGE
--------------


9. (C) Dr. Al-Issa acknowledged the challenges the MOJ faced
in implementing change, noting that they used a step-by-step,
"phased approach," that incorporated "open dialogue and
conversation." To accomplish change, they must take into
account the opinions of both those favoring change, and those

RIYADH 00000152 003.2 OF 004


opposing it. He said the MOJ engaged the public on all
levels -- at the scholarly level, in workshops and at
conferences -- and planned to intensify its outreach efforts.
He noted that the MOJ had won over many skeptics by
concentrating on first changing public opinion. He
emphasized that while the SAG was spearheading change, this
change did not conflict with Saudi Arabia's values or its
constitutional basis. Rather, these were gradual changes
that were necessary given the changing nature of Saudi
society.


TIP AND CLDP
--------------


10. (C) Ambassador Smith stressed the Embassy's readiness to
assist the MOJ in its efforts underway to combat TIP,
mentioning training and exchanges as possible areas of
cooperation. Dr. Al-Issa thanked the Ambassador for his
initiative and said he anticipated the future fruitful
cooperation between the U.S. and the SAG, which would be
strengthened by the on-going rapport between the parties.
The Ambassador then mentioned the Commercial Law Development
Program (CLDP) as another area for future cooperation.
(NOTE: The CLDP had been the subject of discussion at a
November 8 meeting between Charge and Dr. Al-Issa (reftel B),
during which Dr. Al-Issa had expressed a desire to create a
liaison office that would be responsible for communicating
and following up with the Embassy towards the implementation
of the CLDP. END NOTE.) The Ambassador mentioned that the
Ministry of Foreign Affairs had not responded to the
Embassy's diplomatic note concerning an impending USCS
delegation's visit to work on the CLDP. Dr. Al-Issa said
that he was not aware of the visit. The matter had been
delegated to Sheikh Ibrahim, the Chairman of the Board of
Grievances, which was responsible for trade and commercial
matters, including commercial courts, and operated
independently of the MOJ. He said commercial programs were
not currently under the umbrella of the MOJ, but that the MOJ
would have oversight over these matters in the future.


KUDOS FOR US EXCHANGE AND VISITOR PROGRAMS
--------------


11. (C) Dr. Al-Issa expressed his gratitude to the Ambassador
for his kind offers of cooperation and for past visits
facilitated by the U.S. Embassy in Riyadh involving
Intellectual Property Rights, Judicial exchange programs to
the U.S. and visits from USCS officials. He stressed that he
would welcome more workshops to benefit the Judiciary, such
as the workshop conducted 18 months ago in which the Ministry
of Commerce hosted members of the U.S. Judiciary. He
evaluated this program as "highly useful" and as "elevating
competencies on both sides."


COMMENT
--------------


12. (C) The scope of King Abdullah's planned judicial reforms
is daunting and, based on Al-Issa's candid observations, the
pace of implementation remains slow. The creation of the
appellate courts is one tangible success whose effects are
already being felt (septel). Many other important issues
remain under MOJ study, such as the drafting and storing of
legal decisions and the creation of judicial precedent;
developing systems of continuing legal education for lawyers
and judges; developing the field of legal journalism; and
allowing women lawyers to practice in the courts. Our
continued support for the workshops, visits, and judicial
exchanges being proposed by Dr. Al-Issa would provide
opportunities for communication and cross-fertilization as
the MOJ grapples with these important issues. Dr. Al-Issa's
turnaround on the CLDP was noteworthy, as he had expressed
his desire for a liaison office to be responsible for
following up with the Embassy on the CLDP program. This may
reflect some difference of opinion between the Board of
Grievances and MOJ over who has jurisdiction on the issue.


13. (C) COMMENT CONTINUED: Dr. Al-Issa met with the
Ambassador alone, which was an unusual practice for this kind
of meeting. This enabled Dr. Al-Issa to conduct an
extraordinarily frank discussion with Ambassador Smith
concerning the SAG's efforts to shape public opinion to

RIYADH 00000152 004.2 OF 004


advance its reform efforts. Press coverage of the meeting
was also sparse. These two omissions in combination suggest
that the MOJ did not want to draw attention to the meeting
between Ambassador Smith and Dr. Al-Issa. Al-Issa appears to
be treading carefully as he pushes the conservative legal
community to implement the King's reform agenda and tries to
build domestic support for what he views as necessary and
culturally consistent reforms. END COMMENT.




SMITH