Ambassador's Sept 23 Meeting with Uzbek FM Norov

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E.O. 12958: DECL: 2019/09/23
TAGS: PREL PGOV SCUL ECON UZ
SUBJECT: Ambassador's Sept 23 Meeting with Uzbek FM Norov

CLASSIFIED BY: Nicholas Berliner, Pol-Econ Chief; REASON: 1.4(B),(D)


1. (C) Summary: In a meeting with the Ambassador, Uzbek Foreign
Minister Norov expressed appreciation for the Eid message from the
Secretary and said he looked forward to meetings on the margins of
the UNGA next week. Commenting on the draft agenda for the Annual
Bilateral Consultations (ABC),he said that Uzbekistan was also
preparing a draft largely similar to the U.S. one, but remarked
that we would have to discuss further what we hope to achieve in
the "human dimension." This gave way to a discussion of Uzbek
social values and the gradual, evolutionary model that the GOU has
adopted in both the economic and civil realms. On the subject of
the future of exchange programs, Norov said that the GOU was in
favor of exchanges at the university level that further the
technological and economic development of the country. On
Afghanistan, Norov again made the case for a revival of the 6 plus
3 concept, claiming that Karzai's "re-election" would be a victory
only for those such as Iran that want to see the U.S. fail. End
Summary.



Secretary's Message and Meetings at UNGA

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2. (C) Norov said that he was looking forward to his trip to New
York and meetings there with U.S. officials. He said that he
realized that any meeting with the Secretary would be brief, but
very important nonetheless for its symbolic value. The Ambassador
handed him a copy of the Secretary's Eid message, which he read and
expressed his appreciation for.



Annual Bilateral Consultations

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3. (C) The Ambassador also shared the draft agenda for the ABC.
Reading through it in the meeting, Norov said that the Uzbek side
was preparing its own proposal that tracked with ours in many
respects. He focused at length on the "human dimension" portion
and noted that we would have to discuss these issues further to
determine what it is that the U.S. side wants from Uzbekistan.
Remarking on the question of the accreditation of journalists and
NGOs, Norov said that the only problem in this area was that many
journalists and NGO representatives were not prepared to follow
Uzbek law and Uzbek law is not going to change. He said that the
U.S. wants Uzbekistan to move quickly in these areas, but that
Uzbekistan is "not going to hurry" and is going to develop at its
own pace in a way that preserves social harmony. The ABC must
develop on the basis of "mutual interests," he said, such as
dealing with Russian aggression. Uzbekistan has problems, but the
U.S. must understand the situation and refrain from criticism.
After all, he continued, the U.S. has a lot of problems too, but
Uzbekistan does not take it upon itself to point these out.



Child Labor

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4. (C) Not for the first time, Norov expounded at length on
misperceptions about Uzbekistan. He said that the well being of
children was the top priority of every Uzbek family and the state
and that Uzbekistan had been unfairly singled out on the issue of
child labor in the cotton sector simply as a means of exerting
pressure. He noted that the U.S. is looking at this from the
vantage point of a developed society that has already gone through
the stage where Uzbekistan is today. Pointing out that he himself
picked cotton as a child and went on to become Foreign Minister, he
said it was difficult to buy the argument that this work was
harmful to children or putting them at a disadvantage. He then
made reference to a study of child labor in Kyrgyzstan that
reportedly found 600,000 children working in dangerous conditions -
of a total population of 1.5 million children in the country.
This, according to Norov, was further evidence of the fact that
Uzbekistan had been singled out unfairly and was the reason for
President Karimov's refusal to accept an ILO survey of child labor
in the cotton sector in Uzbekistan.

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Reflections on a Bad Day in Brussels

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5. (C) Norov had harsh words for the Europeans. He referred to his
tendentious meeting in Brussels last week with the EU in which the
Europeans criticized Uzbekistan's human rights record and the fact
that the wearing of the hijab is banned in schools. Norov
expressed indignation that the French or anyone else could
criticize Uzbekistan for this when they themselves are banning the
wearing of the hijab. He criticized what he views as a good deal
of Islamophobia in Europe, noting a reference made by one of his
interlocutors to "Islamic terrorism," equating Islam and terrorism.
He pointed out that President Obama has noted the importance of
making a distinction between the two.



Uzbeks Are the Happiest People in Central Asia

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6. (C) Norov continued on a now familiar theme here of respect for
Uzbekistan's cultural values. Society needs to develop slowly and
the state should play a leading role in helping to guide this
change. He said that the Government had taken a gradualist
approach to change since independence in 1991 and that socially and
economically this has paid dividends. He noted that Uzbekistan has
a high degree of social harmony, despite its diverse ethnic mix,
which was important to maintain. Then, as a way of illustrating
the point, he compared Uzbekistan's suicide rate with that of
Kazakhstan. According to Norov, Uzbekistan, despite having a
population four times greater than Kazakhstan's, had only 1,200
suicides in 2008, compared to 3,600 in Kazakhstan. He pointed to
this as an indication of the social peace and tight family
structures that characterize Uzbek society and the necessity of
combining material and spiritual wealth.



Exchanges

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7. (C) The Ambassador raised the question of the future of USG
student exchange programs, following a recent MFA complaint that
the Embassy was not being transparent about these programs. Norov
said that the GOU was not against exchange programs per se (except
at the high school level, given how susceptible kids are at that
age to "nefarious influences"),but that these need to be directed
in a way that meets the country's interests. Rather, he said, than
sending students to study humanities in the States, Uzbekistan
should be able to send its best and brightest to pursue technical
education so that they can contribute to the country's economic
development. He also suggested that the Embassy is being duped by
candidates who are misrepresenting themselves, then stay in the
U.S. and ultimately join the "chorus of rabble-rousers" who bad
mouth Uzbekistan from abroad. These people then only aggravate our
bilateral relations. Rather than this, he suggested that the GOU
provide a pool of eligible students from which the Embassy could
then choose the most qualified. Norov admitted that this was
mostly off the top of his head, but took the Ambassador's point
that it was an important topic that should be discussed as part of
the ABC.



Afghanistan

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8. (C) Norov showed himself to be very well-briefed on the debates
in the U.S. concerning the direction of Afghanistan and the press
reports on the contents of General McChrystal's report. He said
that the current problems surrounding the election only underscored
the wisdom of rekindling the 6 plus 3 model (Afghanistan's
neighbors plus NATO, the U.S. and Russia) to discuss the Afghan

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situation. He said that Russia has an important stake in the
outcome in Afghanistan, but that it will never consider sending
troops, as some have suggested. Never hiding the Uzbek disdain for
Afghan President Karzai, Norov said that only the Iranians could
rejoice at his "victory" in the elections since, in their view, his
incompetence would make things more difficult for the U.S.
Afghanistan needs a central authority, but the source of legitimacy
is not elections, but religion.



Sanjar Umarov Amnesty

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9. (C) Asked by the Ambassador about the status of jailed
oppositionist Sanjar Umarov, Norov said that, following Karimov's
statement that Umarov would be amnestied, there was "no going
back." It was simply a procedural question now - a commission had
been formed and was reviewing all the names that would go on the
amnesty list. He did not know how long this would take but, when
reminded that U/S Burns was interested, said he would look into it.
He genuinely seemed to think this was a done deal, just awaiting
implementation.



Comment

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10. (C) Most of what Norov said is not new, but (faithfully echoing
President Karimov) further underscores Uzbekistan's increasingly
Asian national orientation. Both politically and economically, the
Uzbeks are emulating the models of Korea, Malaysia and other
countries where democratic change has been gradual and the state
has led top-down, export-oriented economic development policies.
Although it is far from clear whether or not the Uzbeks will be
able to realize this goal, it has important implications for our
own goals. Norov's Brussels meeting was indicative of the problem
when he told the press afterwards that "Uzbekistan doesn't need
Europe." Although there was a large dose of bluster in this
statement, a consequence of globalization has been that markets and
technology are much more diffuse. The Uzbeks seem to have no
difficulty finding Asian partners who are perfectly happy to
develop economic ties while saying nothing at all about human
rights, democracy, religious freedom or child labor.
NORLAND