(U) Secretary Clinton's February 5, 2009

S E C R E T STATE 011937


NOFORN

E.O. 12958: DECL: 02/05/2019
TAGS: OVIP CLINTON HILLARY PREL KPAL FR IR RS
NATO, UK, CN
SUBJECT: (U) Secretary Clinton's February 5, 2009
expanded meeting with French Foreign Minister Bernard
Kouchner

CLASSIFIED BY EUR ASSISTANT SECRETARY MARCIE RIES,
ACTING FOR REASONS 1.4 (D)


1. (S) SUMMARY: Secretary Clinton and French Foreign
Minister Bernard Kouchner met on February 5 for 30
minutes in their first bilateral meeting. The warm and
open exchange followed a one-on-one working lunch and
preceded a 20-minute press conference. The two agreed
to coordinate closely on a wide range of issues
including the Middle East, Afghanistan, Iran, Russia,
the Balkans, GTMO detainees and Africa, especially
Darfur. On Afghanistan, Kouchner emphasized the need
for greater "Afghanization" and international "access"
to everyday Afghan people, and asked for U.S. support to
hold a second "Neighbors" conference to follow up on the
initial December 14, 2008 event. On GTMO, the FM
indicated Europe would help on a case-by-case basis, and
asked the U.S. for assistance with a 15-year old
Canadian national, Omar Khadr. The FM asked for a
reaction to its Transatlantic paper, passed to the U.S.
during France's 2008 EU presidency. As the meeting
closed, the Secretary joked that the FM was "not even in
her league" concerning criticism when the FM mentioned a
new book critical of him that might spark press
questions. END SUMMARY.

--------------
Middle East
--------------


2. (C) The Secretary opened the meeting by welcoming FM
Kouchner and expressing appreciation for French
leadership on a broad agenda of cooperation, which she
said President Obama hoped to deepen. Kouchner
congratulated the Secretary and said he looked forward
to the pleasure of working together on a first name
basis. The two then summarized topics discussed in
their one-on-one meeting, beginning with the Middle
East.


3. (S) The Secretary said she understood that the issue
of the Middle East was of grave concern to France. She
expressed appreciation for French leadership on
interdicting weapons into Gaza and with the Copenhagen
process. She thanked President Sarkozy for his ideas
and for French work in providing assistance to the
people of Gaza. FM Kouchner said that he had met with
Palestinian Authority (PA) PM Abu Mazen three days prior
and found him completely isolated. There was a game
being played among Arabs, most of whom, Egyptians
excepted, did not care. He said "Abbas is lost. You
tried, we tried but nothing has happened. The key, he
said, was to figure out how to build up Abu Mazen in a
government of national unity. Salam Fayyad was a
fantastic PM who had ideas about how to open the Gaza
crossing, specifically a tax paid by a group of people
who would be acceptable to both sides just to get the
crossing operating." It was especially important, he
continued, to offer the Palestinian people a sign that
the crossing was open because of Abu Mazen's
involvement. He had to be seen as a leader. He said it
would take weeks and noted that Hamas does not want to
talk to Mazen. Still, it was important to help convince
the Israelis to open the crossing. Kouchner cautioned
that it would be difficult to get anything done ahead of
the Israeli election on February 10.


4. (S) The Secretary concurred that the situation was
difficult. She added that confidence building measures
were needed so that the Israelis would feel committed.
It was important to persuade the new Israeli government
to participate in the peace effort and be convinced that
they could work with the PA. If Abu Mazen's government
of national unity is to work, Israel needs to understand
that it should work with him and that this development
could help. She was encouraged by the actions that the
Egyptians had taken against the tunnels. She said there
was much to coordinate and supported the role of the
Quartet, but agreed that little could happen in advance
of the Israeli elections. She noted that the U.S. was
conducting a review based on Mitchell's work.

--------------
Afghanistan
--------------


5. (S) The Secretary said that the U.S. was working on
a comprehensive strategy and thanked the FM for France's
contributions and cooperation. Kouchner noted that
France had increased its troops to 3000 from 3300. He
said there was progress in several areas, including
civil society, but presented a mixed picture overall.
He returned several times to problems with access to the
population and suggested that this was the key. He also
promoted Afghanization, saying it was important "for the
people to take their own problems into their own hands."
He expressed pride in the French hospital in Kabul as an
example of what was possible noting that Afghan patients
were being treated by Afghan doctors, and even the
Taliban presented themselves for treatment. He said
that Kabul is not Afghanistan, but that Kabul works
because it has been "Afghanized." The rest of the
country needs the same, but it will take years. He was
also concerned about growing Iranian influence, noting
that a huge Shi'a mosque had recently been built with
Iranian funds.


6. (C) FM Kouchner asked for the Secretary's support
for a follow-up event to the December 14, 2008
"Afghanistan Neighbors conference" that Kouchner hosted
in Paris. The FM said the meeting had been very
interesting, despite the Iranians not showing at the
last minute, and should be repeated if the U.S. agreed.
Kouchner put the conference in the context of a broader
approach, stressing "there is no military solution in
Afghanistan."


7. (C) The Secretary took note of the proposal, but
made no commitment on a follow-up conference. She said
the U.S. believed that there had been some success with
building the Army, but more problems with the police.
Both commented on the strength of the new Minister of
Interior. The Secretary said that the Minister of the
Interior was an interesting person but that it might be
necessary to deal with some of the more radical people
whether we wanted to or not. On reconciliation,
Kouchner said that there were some very bad people
involved, but they were nationals of Afghanistan and it
was important to start negotiations, including the
negotiations in Saudi Arabia. Finally on the
presidency, Kouchner said "Karzai is somebody. We have
to talk to him, but there may be other candidates." He
said Anwar-ul-Haq Ahadi was such a person but, while
interesting, he probably couldn't win against Karzai.
The Secretary noted that Richard Holbrooke would travel
to the region.

--------------
GUANTANAMO
--------------


8. (C) The Secretary expressed appreciation for French
leadership within the EU on this issue. She said she
was proud of President Obama's commitment to close the
facility, calling it "a cancer" the U.S. wanted to take
care of, but would take time. She said this was
complicated, so we were asking friends and allies to
consider taking some detainees. FM Kouchner said the EU
27 had not yet reached consensus, but that they
"accepted the idea," but would consider detainees on a
case-by-case basis; Europeans do not want to create
legal problems for themselves. They were working with
three categories of individuals. First were "the best
cases." Second, were those who had made individual
requests for resettlement in specific countries and
third without legal problems. There were many
outstanding questions, such as whether they had refugee
status, but because of the Schengen visa requirements,
it was necessary for the EU to address this together.
At the end of this discussion, the FM handed the
Secretary a paper concerning Omar Khadr, a 15-year old
Muslim of Canadian origin. The Secretary agreed to
review the case.

--------------
Iran
--------------


9. (S/NF) The Secretary opened the discussion by
alluding to the private conversation with FM Kouchner
and their agreement that it was important to prevent
further development of Iran's nuclear capabilities and
its missile program. Iran's recent space launch
complicated this effort noting that the Iranians had
respected none of the internationally recognized
requirements for a space launches specified in UN
Security Council resolutions. The FM said he welcomed
the U.S. willingness to consider direct talks between
the U.S. and Iran. He said that the Iranians were
waiting for the U.S. The launch had surprised the
Russians, of whom he said "they are more affected than
we being 2000 kilometers closer." He added that the
sanctions seemed to be having some effect on the
domestic population, but he ended by repeating the need
for a Quartet meeting. He said that it was important
for any approach to be done together with the Germans
and the Russians, particularly since the Russians are
closer to Iran and could be more easily targeted.
Kouchner suggested not including the Chinese because the
Chinese are "absolutely not useful" in this process.
The Secretary said it was important to follow up,
possibly with U.K. Foreign Secretary David Miliband on
the margins of the G-20 Summit in London.

--------------
Russia/Georgia/Energy
--------------


10. (C) FM Kouchner told the Secretary that France had
been surprised by the Georgian invasion. "We did stop
it, but we didn't solve it." He continued that the
South Ossetians and Abkhaz are a "sort of independent
people" but he worried that there is no humanitarian
access to the population. He said that Georgian PM
Saakashvili had been "badly inspired; he fell into the
trap." But the FM said the Geneva process should
continue, though it might take months or years. On
energy, he said the EU had been united, but then Poland,
Romania and others had been completely cut off and that
both Russia and Ukraine had been "absolutely awful." He
said "a group of Europeans were trying to secure a
pipeline from one country to the other." But he
cautioned that the U.S. position on Missile Defense was
also a factor. He complimented Medvedev as "a normal
guy, at least better than Putin," and credited him with
what he believed to be the sound decision not to put
Iskander missiles in Kalinigrad. He said things were
now more complicated with the Iranian space launch. On
the whole, things were frozen, which was "not bad" as a
place to be for the moment.


11. (C) Continuing on Russia, Kouchner said that the
main thing for the U.S. and Russia to begin to work
together. "Let's talk to them," he said. He said that
the Russians are "rough, rude, and brutal," but we
should still engage them. Kouchner said Russian FM
Lavrov was one of the most brutal, but was among the
cleverest FMs. In any case, they were an important
player and had to be included.

--------------
Balkans
--------------


12. (C) FM Kouchner said that Bosnia remained a
problem, but, it was important to simply "follow the
road." It was important to push the Serbian government
closer to the EU, though he conceded this was difficult
due to Dutch and Belgian objections to the failure of
the Serbs to hand over Ratko Mladic to ICTY. Presumably
referring to EULEX, he said there was success on the
ground in Kosovo as the two sides were not killing each
other and concluded that things were not in a bad place
for the moment.

--------------
Darfur
--------------


13. (C) FM Kouchner told the Secretary he thought the
International Criminal Court (ICC) would soon issue an
arrest warrant against Sudanese President Omar al-
Bashir. He complimented the Qataris for playing a
useful role with their work in Doha. He said they were
working with both sides, including the Islamists. He
said it had taken two years to build toward success.
EUFOR, a contingent of 17 nations deployed in Eastern
Chad and northern Central African Republic, was a
success and he expected a resolution before March 15
when EUFOR will hand over its responsibilities to the UN
(MINURCAT II). On the humanitarian front, he estimated
that half of the displaced persons in Eastern Chad,
mainly women, would begin coming home in Darfur by March

15.

--------------
Book and Transatlantic Paper
--------------


14. (SBU) As the meeting ended, the Secretary said
there was a lot to digest and do. It would require
cooperation. On a lighter note, FM Kouchner said that
waiting journalists might raise the issue of "The World
According to K," the expose published yesterday accusing
him of enriching himself as a consultant in Africa,
tarnishing his humanitarian image. The Secretary
dismissed the book, saying "One book? I have 25.
You're not even in my league!" He said that "the first
one hurts a little more than the others." The FM asked
the Secretary for US reaction to the Transatlantic paper
passed to the U.S. during the French presidency. The
Secretary said she would review the issue and respond.
Note: EUR passed the paper to S staff on 2/5/09 and is
preparing a response to the FM). End note.


15. (U) Participants in the Bilateral:

United States
The Secretary
SCA - A/S Richard Boucher
EUR - PDAS Marcie Ries
NEA - DAS David Hale
PA - Robert Wood
EUR/WE - Pamela Spratlen (notetaker)
NSC - Toby Bradley
Interpreter

France
Foreign Minister Kouchner
Ambassador Vimont
Eric Chevallier, MFA Spokesperson
Philippe Errera, MFA Counselor
Emmanuelle Lenain, Embassy Spokesperson
Aurelien Lechevallier, Notetaker
Interpreter



CLINTON