Deputy Secretary Steinberg's Meeting with Canadian Foreign

C O N F I D E N T I A L OTTAWA 000841

SIPDIS
AMEMBASSY OTTAWA PASS TO AMCONSUL QUEBEC

E.O. 12958: DECL: 2019/11/17
TAGS: PREL MOPS KGHG UNRWA IR AF PK CU CA
SUBJECT: Deputy Secretary Steinberg's Meeting with Canadian Foreign
and Defence Policy Advisor Carriere

CLASSIFIED BY: Scott Bellard, PolMinCouns; REASON: 1.4(B),(D)


1. (U) October 22, 2009, 11:15 a.m., Ottawa, Canada.




2. (U) Participants:



United States

James Steinberg, Deputy Secretary

David Jacobson, U.S. Ambassador to Canada

Lourdes Cue, Special Assistant to the Deputy Secretary

Kurt van der Walde, notetaker



Canada

Claude Carriere, Foreign and Defence Policy Advisor to the Prime
Minister

Gordon Venner, Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council
Office




3. (C) Summary: Deputy Secretary Steinberg briefed Canadian
officials on U.S. deliberations on Afghanistan strategy and the
situation in Pakistan. He noted that the U.S. "has no illusions"
that Iran's short-term calculus in discussing low-enriched uranium
(LEU) necessarily reflects changes in its long-term aspirations
regarding a nuclear capability. The Deputy Secretary and Canadian
officials agreed on the importance of "smart" sanctions with
regard to Iran. On Honduras, the Deputy Secretary said that,
without some change in the current circumstances, it is hard for
the U.S. to imagine that the election will be accepted broadly in
the country and lead to a larger political resolution. He
described the Cuban regime as exhibiting a less confrontational
stance bilaterally, but cautioned that Cuba has not shown support
for changing the fundamental dynamic of the relationship. On
climate change, the Deputy Secretary told the Canadians that the
U.S. wants to show the world its seriousness and interest in
change that is meaningful and real, using concrete steps. Carriere
said Canada is serious about environmental responsibility but will
not make any commitments it cannot meet. The Deputy Secretary made
a special request to Canada to expedite its contribution to the UN
Relief Works Agency, calling the fiscal situation for the agency
"dire." End summary.



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Afghanistan

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4. (C) Deputy Secretary Steinberg thanked Canada for its continued
role in Afghanistan during his meeting in Ottawa on October 22
with Claude Carriere, Canadian Foreign and Defence Policy Advisor
to the Prime Minister, and Gordon Venner, Assistant Secretary to
the Cabinet, Privy Council Office, Foreign and Defence Policy
Secretariat. Carriere underlined the important U.S.-Canadian
partnership in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the world and
expressed appreciation for the convergence of interests and values
that promotes that partnership. Carriere observed that Senator
Kerry's recent travel to Afghanistan was "ensuring the right
outcome." The Deputy Secretary observed that, based on his long
relationship with President Karzai, the Afghan leader is a man of
"tremendous integrity" but someone who nonetheless viewed
international pressure on him after the election as a "sign of
disrespect" toward Pashtuns. The Deputy Secretary noted that
Karzai's agreement to a run-off election "was not foreordained"
and took a "real effort by the U.S. and Europeans." Carriere
agreed, saying that by the time Prime Minister Harper called
President Karzai on October 19, "he'd already been turned around."




5. (C) The Deputy Secretary underscored the importance of Pashtun

participation in the run-off election. Carriere expressed hopes
for an election that the Afghan people view as credible and
representative and noted that the international community then
needs to turn to governance issues. The Deputy Secretary responded
that U.S. shares Canada's view on the importance of governance
issues. He added that the U.S. and our allies in Afghanistan need
to focus on "accountability and capability" by the Afghan
government outside of Kabul. He underlined that the Taliban gained
broad public support by providing stability and a form of justice.
The Deputy Secretary said this task is "not unachievable" but will
require a "changed dynamic" on the ground. Carriere observed that
Canadian officials are frustrated because the news of "real
progress doesn't get through to the public." The Deputy Secretary
added that U.S. public opinion is "evenly divided" and the
administration is seeing increasing challenges from Congress being
linked solely to the number of troops that President Obama decides
to send.




6. (C) Carriere noted that the French "seem to be prepared to step
up" in Afghanistan, noting their willingness to hold a pledging
conference. The Deputy Secretary agreed on the importance of
emphasizing the multilateral nature of engagement in Afghanistan.
Strong French, British, and Canadian involvement remind domestic
audiences that the effort in Afghanistan is not just a U.S.
project. Carriere shared that the French told Prime Minister
Harper in a phone call on October 21 that they are not
contemplating additional troops.



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Pakistan

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7. (C) Carriere observed that the "other element of the Afghan
equation" is in Pakistan. The Deputy Secretary agreed and
underlined that the U.S. is seeking to convince Pakistani leaders
that they have created a category that does not exist- "'good'
Taliban that only go West." Carriere shared that Canada has deep
concerns about Pakistan's accountability for the aid it has
received and continues to solicit through the Friends of Pakistan.
Venner underlined that Canada is troubled by the relationship
between the Pakistan intelligence and security services and Iran.
The U.S. has been clear in telling the Iranians that we reject any
quid pro quo on Iran's nuclear program in return for a constructive
attitude in Afghanistan and Pakistan, according to the Deputy
Secretary. He added that the Iranians are "putting out lots of
feelers" to S/RAP Holbrooke. The Deputy Secretary concluded that
Iran's interests in Pak-Af are "not fully incompatible" with ours.



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Iran

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8. (C) Canada is "pleased" with international community's united
front regarding Iran's nuclear ambitions, according to Carriere.
He praised the Obama administration for engaging directly with
Iran. The Deputy Secretary noted that the U.S. "has no illusions"
that Iran's short-term calculus in discussing low-enriched uranium
(LEU) means that it has necessarily changed its long-term
aspirations regarding a nuclear capability. The U.S. believes that
the next P5+1 message to the Iranians has to be that, even with
progress on LEU, "we won't take the pressure off" on the larger
issue. Carriere inquired about Russia's stance in negotiations with
Iran. The Deputy Secretary noted that Secretary Clinton was just in
Moscow and had a series of productive meetings but that Russia's
views "remain to be seen." The Deputy Secretary added that he had
just returned from China and in his discussions no one disagreed
with the larger U.S. objectives. Nonetheless, he noted that an
Iranian delegation to Beijing last week "did not feel sternly
talked to." The Deputy Secretary reiterated that even as we remain
unclear about Iran's current strategy, it does not mean that the
international community "cannot change Iran's calculus."



9. (C) Venner (a former Canadian Ambassador to Teheran) inquired
whether the U.S. believes we need "more concrete sanctions" to get
Iran's attention. The Deputy Secretary expressed a preference for
targeted, "smart" sanctions that hit key constituencies like the
IRGChard but do not create a domestic public backlash in Iran.
Venner pointed out that discussions of sanctions on refined
petroleum products are likely to generate "economic rents" for the
IRGC, which is heavily involved in smuggling. The Deputy Secretary
demurred, saying he encountered the same argument in the Balkans
during the early 1990s. He noted that the "bad guys did collect
their rents" but that those sanctions did significantly undermine
Milosevic. He hastened to add that "no one thinks it's a silver
bullet, but it is useful to have on the table. Venner countered
that "visa measures are the best way to get the regime's
attention, but do we really want to cut off an entire generation
from contact with the West?" The Deputy Secretary said it was
unclear whether average Iranians would blame a visa ban on the
West or their government.



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Honduras

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10. (C) Carriere observed that de facto Honduran President Robert
Micheletti "really doesn't want to relinquish power" and inquired
how the U.S. will "play the recognition of the elections." The
Deputy Secretary said that under the current conditions it is hard
for the U.S. to imagine that they will be accepted broadly
domestically and lead to a larger political resolution that allows
the country to move forward. Carriere expressed the view that the
dispute seems to come down to personal enmity between Micheleti and
deposed President Zelaya. The Deputy Secretary commented that
Zelaya has shown more flexibility in negotiations, but noted that
the de facto government believes that "nothing will be worse for
them by sitting on the ball," so it is hard to motivate them to
take decisive action.



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Cuba

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11. (C) The Deputy Secretary described the Cuban regime as
exhibiting a "certain pragmatism," especially in regard to the
bilateral migration talks. He cautioned, however, that U.S.
analysts believe Cuba is not interested in changing the fundamental
dynamic of the relationship since it is so important to the
regime's hold on power. Given the lack of reciprocity on the part
of Cuba, the U.S. is limited in how it can continue to try to
change the tone of the relationship. He did add that the
administration is exploring greater openness in telecommunications.
Venner noted that Canada had recently placed a military attachC) at
the Canadian embassy in Havana.



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Climate Change and Energy Security

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12. (C) Carriere asked about the U.S. position on the Copenhagen
climate change summit. The Deputy Secretary cautioned, however,
that given the short time frame, there is no chance for a binding
document to emerge. He said the U.S. wants to engage in a way that
shows the world the U.S. is serious and interested in moving the
process forward in a way that is meaningful and real. The U.S.
wants to focus on concrete steps. The U.S. focus is in delivering
on "our own domestic policy" and then seeking to have that
reflected in our international efforts. Carriere pledged that


"Canada is with you in this." He reiterated that Canada wants to
help, but that the Prime Minister has been "clear that Canada will
make no commitments it cannot meet." The Deputy Secretary said the
U.S. faces the same problem but is not using domestic politics as
an excuse for "trimming its ambitions." Carriere affirmed that
Canada is telling its petroleum industry that "environmental
responsibility is equally important as energy security." The
Deputy Secretary underscored that attacking climate change and
assuring energy security should not be viewed a "trade off" but
rather as complementary. Ambassador Jacobson commented that on his
recent travels to the oil sands that message was starting to get
through to producers. Carriere lamented, however, that we still
have a long way to go since the "oil patch is still pretty
negative" on the idea of lowering its carbon footprint. The Deputy
Secretary underscored that "win-win opportunities exist."



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Palestine and the UNRWA

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13. (C) The Deputy Secretary made a special request to Canada to
expedite its contribution to the UN Relief Works Agency, calling
the fiscal situation for the agency "dire." Venner admitted that
Canada has lagged, but said the UNRWA contribution is caught up in
a broader internal review of Canada's multilateral aid
effectiveness. He underscored, nonetheless, that Canada does not
envision cutting its level of support but is still deciding how to
allocate it between core funding and humanitarian relief. Carriere
acknowledged, however, that Prime Minister Harper has "serious"
concerns about UNRWA's work, especially with regard to incitement
and the content of school texts. The Deputy Secretary said the
U.S. shares those concerns, but that the alternative to UNRWA's
failure is to hand Hamas a major public relations opening. Venner
said the fact that the U.S. has raised Canadian support for UNRWA
at such a high level will be important in speeding a Canadian
decision on its support.




14. (U) The Deputy Secretary cleared this message.
JACOBSON