SPAIN: DHS SEC. NAPOLITANO'S MEETING WITH INTERIOR

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 MADRID 001127

SIPDIS

STATE FOR EUR/WE
STATE ALSO FOR EUR/NB, EUR/ERA, INR, INL, G/TIP
PASS TO DHS/OIA DAS MARK KOUMANS
PASS TO DOJ

E.O. 12958: DECL: 11/07/2029
TAGS: PREL PINS PTER PINR KHLS KCIP KCRM SP PGOV
KTIP, INL
SUBJECT: SPAIN: DHS SEC. NAPOLITANO'S MEETING WITH INTERIOR
MINISTER

REF: A. MADRID 673

B. MADRID 671

C. MADRID 614

D. MADRID 551

E. OSC EUP20091105178002

MADRID 00001127 001.2 OF 003


Classified By: Charge D'Affaires Arnold A. Chacon for reasons 1.4 (b) a
nd (d)


1. (C) SUMMARY. DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano on November 4
met Spanish Interior Minister Alfredo Perez Rubalcaba to
continue conversations (Refs A-D) on enhanced bilateral
data-sharing among law enforcement authorities as well as
increased US-EU cooperation on justice and home affairs
issues during Spain's January-June 2010 EU Presidency. Both
officials reaffirmed their respective countries' commitment
to increased data-sharing and they conducted a brainstorm
session on how best to build support for these efforts. They
also agreed to develop a plan on the seizure of human
trafficker's assets. The meeting occurred before the
Secre tary and Rubalcaba delivered speeches at the 31st annual
International Conference on Data Protection and Privacy
Commissioners (IDPC) in Madrid. Embassy Madrid's Charge
d'Affaires Chacon and DHS/ICE Attache Alvarez accompanied the
Secre tary and her delegation, which included Chief of Staff
Noah Kroloff, U/S Rand Beers, A/S for Public Affairs Sean
Smith, and DAS for International Affairs Mark Koumans. END
SUMMARY.

//IDEAS ON HOW TO BUILD SUPPORT FOR ENHANCED DATA-SHARING//


2. (C) Secretary Napolitano proposed that the USG and the GOS
should work on a bilateral data-sharing agreement which could
then be crafted in a broader context for a US-EU agreement.
Rubalcaba stated that the GOS shared this view. The
Secre tary proposed that after establishing a bilateral
agreement, the agreement should then be raised with the EU's
G-6 members. The Secretary and Rubalcaba acknowledged that
increased data-sharing between the U.S. and EU will be a hard
sell, but the two agreed that public security and personal
privacy are not mutually exclusive concepts and confirmed
their commitment to make this work. Noting how difficult it
was to achieve consensus among the EU-27, Rubalcaba argued
that the U.S. and EU should have modest objectives that build
support for something broadly acceptable so as not to
frighten the public. He suggested it would preferable to
proceed with something rather than nothing, advocating that
the USG and GOS should not await the formulation of a perfect
solution. Rubalcaba opined that the initiative is likely to
face problems from the Czech Republic and other East
Europeans, Sweden, and even within the European Parliament
itself.


3. (C) The Secretary responded that, based on their
individual histories, some countries have well-grounded
privacy concerns, but the way to advance this issue would be
to demonstrate that this initiative promotes public safety.
The Secretary, who in her speech to the IDPC later cited the
example of how the USG recently had provided data to the
United Kingdom to prevent the travel of an Australian rapist
trying to enter the UK on a false Somali passport, suggested
that the key to building support for enhanced cooperation is
to explain the initiative well and to provide the right
examples as success stories. She noted this initiative will
not just protect the public from terrorism, but also prevent
crimes such as trafficking in persons and cybercrime.
Arguing that the challenge is to convince EU-27 members that
this is an agreement worth fighting for, the Secretary stated
that she would defer to Rubalcaba's wisdom on how best to
work this issue among EU members. Rubalcaba agreed and
emphasized the need to be realistic in what could be agreed

MADRID 00001127 002.2 OF 003


to among the EU-27. He said the GOS will need to sell the
idea and noted that DHS's new Liaison Officer posted to the
Ministry of Interior (MOI) will be working on precisely this.



4. (C) The Secretary emphasized that she and the DHS are
aware of the key role that Spain's Ministry of Justice (MOJ)
will play in building political support for enhanced
cooperation on data-sharing. (COMMENT: Justice Minister
Francisco Caamano canceled his scheduled meeting with the
Secre tary due to the imminent death of his father. END
COMMENT.)

//SENSITIVE POLITICAL CLIMATE IN SPAIN ON DATA PRIVACY
ISSUES//


5. (C) Rubalcaba noted that there are a lot of domestic
sensitivities regarding data privacy in Spain, where the
public sees proposals for increased governmental oversight as
just an excuse for "Big Brother" to "spy on other political
parties." There is growing public concern regarding a
increasingly-publicized government program to intercept phone
calls by the general public (Ref E). (COMMENT: Although he
had agreed to speak at the event, Rubalcaba was at pains to
explain to the Secretary why he wanted to publicly distance
himself from the IDPC as much as possible in light of these
domestic sensitivities. He did not want his presence to
undercut the larger objective of enhanced bilateral
cooperation on law enforcement issues. However, Post notes
that, following the Secretary's visit, Rubalcaba has become
more directly involved in criticism of the GOS's phone
monitoring system. El Pais, Spain's flagship daily which
traditionally is sympathetic to the incumbent Socialist
Party, reported that following a heated debate in Parliament
on November 18 the Minister reportedly had a verbal
altercation in Congress with an opposition parliamentarian,
whom Rubalcaba allegedly told, "I see and hear everything you
do." While Rubalcaba later publicly explained that he meant
he was aware of his critic's public statements to the media
outlets, the main opposition party subsequently has portrayed
these comments as a threat. The increasingly partisan tones
of this debate are likely to complicate bilateral progress on
this issue. END COMMENT.)

//SUPPORT FOR SEIZING HUMAN TRAFFICKERS' ASSETS//


6. (C) Rubalcaba welcomed the Secretary's proposal to
strengthen bilateral and U.S.-EU cooperation by establishing
joint investigations on trafficking in persons. The
Secre tary suggested that since the key is to follow the money
involved in illicit activity, human traffickers - like drug
traffickers - should have their assets seized. The Secretary
suggested that the Embassy's DHS/ICE Section should work with
the MOI and MOJ to identify a key human traffickers
organization for a pilot investigation on how it moves money.
Rubalcaba suggested that DHS's Liaison Officer should also
work with MOI and the MOJ to create a specific plan on
cooperation in this area by the end of the year.

//ADDITIONAL ACTIVITIES IN MADRID//


7. (C) The Secretary had an informal conversation at the IDPC
with Juan Fernando Lopez Aguilar, Spain's former Justice
Minister (2004-07) who this year became Chairman of the
European Parliament's Civil Liberties, Justice and Home
Affairs Committee. She disagreed with his assertion that the
U.S. Privacy Act of 1974 does not allow non-U.S. citizens to
bring their concerns to U.S. courts and cited this example as
a misconception regarding U.S. privacy standards that the USG
will have to dispel. The Secretary also spoke with the
Prince and Princess of Asturias, who presided over the

MADRID 00001127 003.2 OF 003


inauguration of the IDPC. The Secretary concluded her visit
to Madrid by hosting a recognition ceremony for U.S. and
Spanish customs officials for their work in successful joint
operations against transnational arms and bulk cash
smuggling.


8. (SBU) The DHS delegation has cleared this cable.
CHACON