A CONVERSATION WITH GENERAL JOHN NUMBI

C O N F I D E N T I A L KINSHASA 000314


E.O. 12958: DECL: 04/01/2019
TAGS: PGOV PREL KPKO MARR MOPS IN CG
SUBJECT: A CONVERSATION WITH GENERAL JOHN NUMBI

REF: KINSHASA 254 AND PREVIOUS


Classified By: Ambassador William J. Garvelink for reasons
1.4 (b) and (d)


1. (C) Summary: On the evening of March 31, Ambassador
Garvelink met with General John Numbi and discussed a range
of issues. Topics included the GDRC-GOR joint operations
in North Kivu, the demise of the CNDP, MONUC, the
resignation of Vital Kamerhe as President of the National
Assembly, and his (Numbi,s) search for funding for police
training and assistance in dealing with drug traffickers
using the Congo as a transit point. End Summary.


2. (C) General Numbi considered the joint military
operation with Rwanda against the FDLR to be a great
success. The FDLR has been seriously damaged in his view.
The FDLR,s headquarters has been destroyed and the FDLR
forces in North Kivu have been separated from their
economic assets. Numbi said they no longer have access to
agricultural production or gold and other minerals which
funded their operations. He expressed concern for the
local population in North Kivu and the possible reprisals
by the FDLR in the near term. He confidently predicted that
in three to four months the FARDC now with CNDP soldiers
and supported by MONUC would eliminate the FDLR from North
Kivu. He explained that he is transferring police units
into North Kivu to replace FARDC forces which are beginning
to move into South Kivu. He said planning for operations
in South Kivu is underway but did not elaborate. He noted
that the reason he ran the operation in North Kivu was
because he spoke Swahili and General Etumba did not. One
suspects that his relationship with President Kabila and
with the Rwandans had more to do with his selection than
his language capabilities. General Numbi lauded the joint
operation with Rwanda because it went a long way in
breaking down longstanding distrust between the leadership
of the two countries and in building a cooperative
relationship between the two nations. General Numbi asked
the U.S. to continue to urge President Kabila to continue
his regular dialogue with President Kagame.


3. (C) General Numbi stated the CNDP was finished as a
military organization and that it would not be able to
resurrect itself because of the loss of Rwandan support.
The logistical supply line through Rwanda was critically
important to the CNDP and now that has ended. Numbi said
that in the past whenever the CNDP felt trapped or that
support from Rwanda was failing they would claim that they
were about to be attacked by joint FDLR-FARDC forces.
Numbi speculated that there may have been some interaction
between some field commanders of the FARDC with the FDLR
but never to the extent claimed by Nkunda and the CNDP.
Numbi said he expected Nkunda to be returned to the Congo
but he would not speculate as to the timing.


4. (C) General Numbi became very animated while he
discussed MONUC. He said his working relationship with
SRSG Doss and MONUC Force Commander Gaye has been excellent
but that the units in the field are passive and
ineffective. He pointed to the Indians, in particular.
Ambassador Garvelink noted that it is important to the U.S.
and the international community that Indian forces remain
in the Congo and that it would be a crippling blow to MONUC
if the Indians withdrew (reftel). The Indians provide
forces on the ground that are important to civilian
protection and supply most of the helicopters MONUC has.
Without the Indians, the logistical support that MONUC
provides to the FARDC would evaporate and that would
severely limit the FARDC ability to move around the eastern
Congo. Regardless of what he thought of their offensive
capabilities, the Indians were essential to MONUC and to
FARDC operations. Numbi acknowledged the points.
Comment: Numbi is clearly one of the individuals around
President Kabila who sees little value in MONUC as a
military force. End comment.


5. (C) Ambassador noted that the political feud between
President Kabila and Vital Kamerhe, ending with Kamerhe,s
resignation as President of the National Assembly but
remaining as a Deputy in the National Assembly, appeared to
be a satisfactory outcome for both sides. Numbi expressed
his dismay with the behavior of Kamerhe regarding the
operation with Rwanda and was surprised by Kamerhe,s claim
that he was not aware of the plans and decisions. Numbi
said that he had kept Kamerhe and Kengo, President of the
Senate, informed of the discussions with Rwanda and the
military plans.


6. (C) At the conclusion of the meeting, General Numbi
mentioned his search for funding for police training. He
noted that the secret to lasting peace in the eastern Congo
is an adequately trained and equipped police force. He
also said that he needed training for his officers who were
dealing with drug traffickers who use the Congo as a
transit point. His police have very little experience in
dealing with this kind of criminal behavior.


7. (C) Comment: General Numbi was in fine form. He was
relaxed and talkative. He arrived at the meeting alone,
driving his own vehicle. He was in civilian clothes. He
appears to be interested in reestablishing his relationship
with the embassy, a relationship that had lapsed for
several years. He has a reputation as one of the Katangan
hardliners around President Kabila and as a ruthless
military officer, now head of the national police.
Nevertheless, it is important to know what he is thinking
and saying to President Kabila and for him to hear United
States, interests and concerns. We are particularly
pleased to have had the opportunity to discuss our views on
the importance of India,s presence in MONUC. Numbi clearly
does not like the Indians and for that reason alone he
needed to know that the U.S. has confidence in them. We
continue to engage with Numbi, who could come to assume
even greater responsibilities during the latter half of
Kabila term as president. End comment.


GARVELINK