Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
09GENEVA1186
2009-12-18 18:47:00
SECRET
Mission Geneva
Cable title:
START FOLLOW-ON NEGOTIATIONS, GENEVA
VZCZCXYZ0006 OO RUEHWEB DE RUEHGV #1186/01 3521847 ZNY SSSSS ZZH O 181847Z DEC 09 FM USMISSION GENEVA TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 0768 RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE RUEKDIA/DIA WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE RUEKJCS/CJCS WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE RUEKJCS/VCJCS WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE RUEKJCS/JOINT STAFF WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE RHEHNSC/NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE RUEHNO/USMISSION USNATO IMMEDIATE 5838 RHMFISS/DEPT OF ENERGY WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE RHMFISS/DTRA ALEX WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE RUESDT/DTRA-OSES DARMSTADT GE IMMEDIATE RUENAAA/CNO WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE RHMFISS/DIRSSP WASHINGTON DC IMMEDIATE INFO RUEHTA/AMEMBASSY ASTANA PRIORITY 3017 RUEHKV/AMEMBASSY KYIV PRIORITY 2027 RUEHMO/AMEMBASSY MOSCOW PRIORITY 7234
S E C R E T GENEVA 001186
SIPDIS
DEPT FOR T, VCI AND EUR/PRA
DOE FOR NNSA/NA-24
CIA FOR WINPAC
JCS FOR J5/DDGSA
SECDEF FOR OSD(P)/STRATCAP
NAVY FOR CNO-N5JA AND DIRSSP
AIRFORCE FOR HQ USAF/ASX AND ASXP
DTRA FOR OP-OS OP-OSA AND DIRECTOR
NSC FOR LOOK
DIA FOR LEA
E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/17/2019
TAGS: KACT MARR PARM PREL RS US START
SUBJECT: START FOLLOW-ON NEGOTIATIONS, GENEVA
(SFO-GVA-VII): (U) LAWYERS' MEETING ON RUSSIAN PRACTICES
CONCERNING "INITIALING" OF INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS,
DECEMBER 15, 2009
Classified By: A/S Rose E. Gottemoeller, United States
START Negotiator. Reasons: 1.4(b) and (d).
S E C R E T GENEVA 001186
SIPDIS
DEPT FOR T, VCI AND EUR/PRA
DOE FOR NNSA/NA-24
CIA FOR WINPAC
JCS FOR J5/DDGSA
SECDEF FOR OSD(P)/STRATCAP
NAVY FOR CNO-N5JA AND DIRSSP
AIRFORCE FOR HQ USAF/ASX AND ASXP
DTRA FOR OP-OS OP-OSA AND DIRECTOR
NSC FOR LOOK
DIA FOR LEA
E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/17/2019
TAGS: KACT MARR PARM PREL RS US START
SUBJECT: START FOLLOW-ON NEGOTIATIONS, GENEVA
(SFO-GVA-VII): (U) LAWYERS' MEETING ON RUSSIAN PRACTICES
CONCERNING "INITIALING" OF INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS,
DECEMBER 15, 2009
Classified By: A/S Rose E. Gottemoeller, United States
START Negotiator. Reasons: 1.4(b) and (d).
1. (U) This is SFO-GVA-VII-148.
2. (U) Meeting Date: December 15, 2009
Time: 3:30 P.M. - 4:15 P.M.
Place: U.S. Mission, Geneva
--------------
SUMMARY
--------------
3. (S) U.S. lawyers, Mr. Brown and Ms. Stewart, met with
Russian lawyer, Mr. Lobach, to discuss Russian practice on
"initialing" international agreements. Based on the
discussion, it appeared that the option of "initialing" the
joint draft text (JDT) was not available to the Russian head
of delegation, absent approval by the Russian President and
following conforming. The most that the Russian head of
delegation would be authorized to do with respect to the JDT
would be to acknowledge it as reflecting the current stage of
the negotiations. End Summary.
4. (S) SUBJECT SUMMARY: Discussion of Russian Practice on
"Initialing" International Agreements.
--------------
DISCUSSION OF RUSSIAN PRACTICE
CONCERNING "INITIALING" OF
INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS
--------------
5. (S) On the margins of a scheduled Conforming Group
meeting, Lobach asked to meet with U.S. lawyers to discuss
Russian practice on "initialing" international agreements.
Lobach explained that he was raising the issue not because he
had been asked to do so by his head of delegation but to
explain the Russian practice. He acknowledged that, if
asked, he would provide the same assessment to the Russian
delegation. Lobach said that the Russian concept of
"initialing" (in Russian, "parafirovaniye") would be
applicable only in the case of a text that had been fully
conformed in the two languages and approved by the Russian
President, or at a level much higher than that of the
delegation. He added that only in this case would the text
be printed on official treaty paper. Lobach remarked that
the most that the Russian head of delegation was authorized
to do would be to "confirm" the text (in Russian,
"vizirovaniye") in writing, using initials or signature,
perhaps at the end of the text, as reflecting the current
state of the negotiations. That confirmation would not
constitute a legal or political commitment on behalf of the
Russian Federation. He noted that after review in Moscow
this text could be easily changed.
6. (S) In terms of what the heads of delegation could do in
order to reflect agreement on a JDT, Lobach said that it
could be a public statement that the two heads of delegation
had "agreed in principle" on a JDT. Lobach suggested that
the Presidents could also issue a statement concerning
agreement by the heads of delegation. In terms of an
internal mechanism to record the progress reflected in the
JDT, Lobach said that one option would be something analogous
to an "agreed minute." In any case, Lobach expressed his
view that the JDT should consist of all text, not just
unbracketed text.
7. (U) Documents provided: None.
8. (U) Participants:
UNITED STATES
Mr. Brown
Ms. Stewart
RUSSIA
Mr. Lobach
9. (U) Gottemoeller sends.
GRIFFITHS
SIPDIS
DEPT FOR T, VCI AND EUR/PRA
DOE FOR NNSA/NA-24
CIA FOR WINPAC
JCS FOR J5/DDGSA
SECDEF FOR OSD(P)/STRATCAP
NAVY FOR CNO-N5JA AND DIRSSP
AIRFORCE FOR HQ USAF/ASX AND ASXP
DTRA FOR OP-OS OP-OSA AND DIRECTOR
NSC FOR LOOK
DIA FOR LEA
E.O. 12958: DECL: 12/17/2019
TAGS: KACT MARR PARM PREL RS US START
SUBJECT: START FOLLOW-ON NEGOTIATIONS, GENEVA
(SFO-GVA-VII): (U) LAWYERS' MEETING ON RUSSIAN PRACTICES
CONCERNING "INITIALING" OF INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS,
DECEMBER 15, 2009
Classified By: A/S Rose E. Gottemoeller, United States
START Negotiator. Reasons: 1.4(b) and (d).
1. (U) This is SFO-GVA-VII-148.
2. (U) Meeting Date: December 15, 2009
Time: 3:30 P.M. - 4:15 P.M.
Place: U.S. Mission, Geneva
--------------
SUMMARY
--------------
3. (S) U.S. lawyers, Mr. Brown and Ms. Stewart, met with
Russian lawyer, Mr. Lobach, to discuss Russian practice on
"initialing" international agreements. Based on the
discussion, it appeared that the option of "initialing" the
joint draft text (JDT) was not available to the Russian head
of delegation, absent approval by the Russian President and
following conforming. The most that the Russian head of
delegation would be authorized to do with respect to the JDT
would be to acknowledge it as reflecting the current stage of
the negotiations. End Summary.
4. (S) SUBJECT SUMMARY: Discussion of Russian Practice on
"Initialing" International Agreements.
--------------
DISCUSSION OF RUSSIAN PRACTICE
CONCERNING "INITIALING" OF
INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS
--------------
5. (S) On the margins of a scheduled Conforming Group
meeting, Lobach asked to meet with U.S. lawyers to discuss
Russian practice on "initialing" international agreements.
Lobach explained that he was raising the issue not because he
had been asked to do so by his head of delegation but to
explain the Russian practice. He acknowledged that, if
asked, he would provide the same assessment to the Russian
delegation. Lobach said that the Russian concept of
"initialing" (in Russian, "parafirovaniye") would be
applicable only in the case of a text that had been fully
conformed in the two languages and approved by the Russian
President, or at a level much higher than that of the
delegation. He added that only in this case would the text
be printed on official treaty paper. Lobach remarked that
the most that the Russian head of delegation was authorized
to do would be to "confirm" the text (in Russian,
"vizirovaniye") in writing, using initials or signature,
perhaps at the end of the text, as reflecting the current
state of the negotiations. That confirmation would not
constitute a legal or political commitment on behalf of the
Russian Federation. He noted that after review in Moscow
this text could be easily changed.
6. (S) In terms of what the heads of delegation could do in
order to reflect agreement on a JDT, Lobach said that it
could be a public statement that the two heads of delegation
had "agreed in principle" on a JDT. Lobach suggested that
the Presidents could also issue a statement concerning
agreement by the heads of delegation. In terms of an
internal mechanism to record the progress reflected in the
JDT, Lobach said that one option would be something analogous
to an "agreed minute." In any case, Lobach expressed his
view that the JDT should consist of all text, not just
unbracketed text.
7. (U) Documents provided: None.
8. (U) Participants:
UNITED STATES
Mr. Brown
Ms. Stewart
RUSSIA
Mr. Lobach
9. (U) Gottemoeller sends.
GRIFFITHS