BOUCHER AND NOROV: PRAGMATIC STEPS FORWARD

C O N F I D E N T I A L STATE 106151

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 09/29/2018
TAGS: PREL ASEC PHUM KDEM PMAR PK AF UZ
SUBJECT: BOUCHER AND NOROV: PRAGMATIC STEPS FORWARD

Classified By: Assistant Secretary Boucher for reasons 1.4(b) and (d).


1. (C) SUMMARY: Assistant Secretary for South and Central
Asia, Richard Boucher, and Uzbekistan's Foreign Minister,
Vladimir Norov, met September 27 on the margins of the UN
General Assembly and discussed: overland supply to
Afghanistan, human rights, religious freedom, the Red Cross,
counter narcotics, Uzbekistan's 6 3 proposal for talks on
Afghanistan, and regional water issues. Boucher called for
"steps forward" on human rights and religious freedom. Norov
agreed but urged a "pragmatic approach." Of note, Norov
urged the United States to stay out of Central Asian regional
water issues as the Uzbeks preferred bilateral solutions.
Boucher gently rebuffed Norov's call for a 6 3 arrangement on
Afghanistan; a proposal to discuss the future of Afghanistan
with neighboring states but not the Afghan government itself.
END SUMMARY.


2. (U) Participants

Foreign Minister Vladimir Norov
Ambassador to the United States Abdulaziz Kamilov
Uzbek Embassy First Secretary Eldor Aripov
Uzbek UN Mission Second Secretary Ildar Shigabutdinov

Assistant Secretary Richard Boucher
SCA Deputy Assistant Secretary George Krol
SCA/CEN Notetaker John Gorkowski


3. (C) Boucher raised the issue of shipments of supplies into
Afghanistan and asked Norov for a readout of his meeting with
NATO Secretary General's Special Representative for South
Caucasus and Central Asia, Bob Simmons, in Brussels. Norov
noted that President Karimov had already issued a statement
in support of NATO's efforts to transit material through
Uzbekistan and underscored that this was in Uzbekistan's
national interest since it helped secure Afghanistan. Norov
shared that the Uzbeks had some concerns about the current
transit proposal that could be resolved given a "pragmatic"
approach. The Europeans had discussed the same issue with
Central Asian leaders at the EU-Central Asian ministerial
conference on security in Paris September 18. Norov went on
to describe a proposal Karimov made in Baku to develop a new
rail transportation corridor to/from Europe that could
alleviate NATO's burden. It would send Uzbek cargoes by rail
to Turkmenbashi and then by ferry to Baku from where material
would rail through Georgia, Turkey and then tunnel under the
Bosporus to Europe.


4. (C) Norov called for pragmatism on human rights. He
shared that Uzbekistan had reduced death sentences from 39 to
2 in the recent past, a better record than Kyrgyzstan in
which 200 on death row have now been sentenced to life in
prison. After explaining Uzbek commitment to Habeas Corpus
and prevention of trafficking in persons, Norov described a
September 12 Executive Order to observe International Labor
Organization conventions on child labor. In response to a
question from Boucher, Norov noted the new Uzbek law allowing
Bar Association exchanges with the United States. Likewise
he said that prison amnesties would be granted where inmates
had not violated prison regulations. When Boucher asked for
the release of political prisoners, Norov replied, "I don't
know what you mean by political prisoners; we don't have
any." Here and
elsewhere Norov asked that Uzbekistan's progress be measured
relative to other nations in the region as things had to
improve "one step at a time." He asked for a return to the
2002 Declaration of Strategic Partnership based on a
"balanced approach," that avoided a "double
standard" of interference in domestic affairs.


5. (C) On religious freedom, Norov answered Boucher's inquiry
about progress on the exchange of letters with Ambassador
Hanford, Ambassador-at-Large for International Religious
Freedom. Norov described a "pragmatic" approach in close
consultation with Ambassador Norland in Tashkent. "One case
at a time," explained Norov. He went on to note that in
contrast to Kyrgyzstan, his country required only 100
registrants to constitute a church and in some cases even
fewer than that. Boucher stressed that the letter gave us a
positive agenda on which we had to see progress in order to
avoid an unwanted slide back to sanctions.


6. (C) There was "no problem" with the Red Cross prison
visits according to Norov. He reported that he was waiting
on a report from the International Committee of the Red Cross
after having worked through some issues regarding their
approach. The Red Cross should not question only "particular
groups" of prisoners. He also asked, "Are they gathering
data for themselves or to help us improve conditions in our
prisons?" He underscored that "regularization of the
judicial system" required a great deal of thought, financing,
legislation and time.


7. (C) Turning to counter narcotics, Norov lamented that this
year 54% more heroin had entered Uzbekistan than in the
previous year. Law enforcement had even found Tajik-produced
heroin. Boucher drew a link between terrorism and narcotics
by reminding that both thrived on insecurity. He explained
how the Taliban had abandoned their take-and-hold strategy
for one centered on generating a feeling of insecurity
through violent attacks. In response, the United States was
increasing security by helping extend the Afghan government's
reach into the provinces and blanketing the country with
police. When Boucher asked how we might deepen counter
narcotics cooperation Norov asked that we station U.S. Drug
Enforcement Agents at the U.S. Embassy in Tashkent.


8. (C) As Norov saw it, French Foreign Minister Kouchner had
showed common cause with Uzbekistan's 6 3 proposal at the
September 18 Paris meeting between EU and Central Asian
foreign ministers by calling for an informal meeting of
states neighboring Afghanistan this November. However,
Uzbekistan rejected President Rahmon's call for Shanghai
Cooperation Organization involvement and was weary of Russian
efforts to get the Collective Security Treaty states
involved. Norov reminded Boucher that our efforts to speak
to the opposition in Iraq had led to our current success
there and that Afghan Foreign Minister Spanta had called for
something similar with the Taliban. Boucher assured Norov
that we shared Uzbek concerns about "spill over" from
Afghanistan. Although we agreed with the concept underlying
the 6 3 proposal we rejected the mechanism because any
discussion on Afghanistan must include and be centered on the
Afghan government. "What happens on reconciliation must be
centered on the Afghan government so that all accept the new
constitution." Boucher agreed the UN Special Representative
Kai Eide had yet to develop a specific approach to involving
the neighboring countries but noted Eide needs time.


9. (C) Boucher raised the issue of water sharing within
Central Asia. Norov explained that the Uzbeks wanted a fair
apportionment of transborder water so that down stream
countries would be compensated for losses generated by those
up stream. President Karimov has declined to attend the
October 1 and 2 water meeting in Almaty since the matter
could be addressed at the already planned Commonwealth of
Independent States summit on October 9 and 10 in Bishkek.
Norov stressed Uzbekistan,s preference to deal with water
issues bilaterally and urged that the U.S. refrain from
involving itself in the issue. Boucher asked whether we
could help improve the efficiency of water consumption
through better pipelines and irrigation systems. Norov
retorted that the Uzbeks had already pursued this option via
an agreement signed in Abu Dhabi last April with a foreign
country. In the interest of comparison, he described how
although water input from Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan had
declined by 50 percent this year the Uzbek cotton crop had
not suffered thanks to better management and new seed grains.
He lamented that in Kyrgyzstan corruption wastes 40 percent
of that nation's electricity that is derived from water.
Boucher pointed to this as a good reason to pursue water
saving mechanisms and offered to look into how the United
States could help. Norov urged that such help be provided to
all countries in the region.


10. (C) Norov closed by encouraging Under Secretary Burns to
visit, noting Karimov would definitely want to meet him.


11. (C) In a separate conversation with Norov after the
meeting, Deputy Assistant Secretary Krol urged consideration
of granting amnesty to Sanjar Umarov, a prisoner convicted
for "financial" crimes but whose health is seriously
deteriorating. His son had recently spoken at a conference
on human rights in New York. Krol noted this humanitarian
act could avert negative attention to Uzbekistan. Norov
indicated they would look into it. On water disputes, Norov
told Krol he had warned the Tajiks directly, if they build
the Rohgun hydro-electric plant, Uzbekistan will not permit a
single railcar to enter Tajikistan. He claimed the Russians
understand this as well, adding that this is why they are
dragging their feet with the Tajiks on the project.
RICE