Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
08PARTO100602
2008-10-06 03:31:00
CONFIDENTIAL
US Delegation, Secretary
Cable title:
(U) SECRETARY RICE'S OCTOBER 4, 2008 CONVERSATION
how-toO 060331Z OCT 08 FM USDEL SECRETARY //NEW DELHI,ASTANA// TO AMEMBASSY NEW DELHI IMMEDIATE INFO SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE ALL SOUTH AND CENTRAL ASIA COLLECTIVE IMMEDIATE AMEMBASSY BEIJING PRIORITY AMEMBASSY BERLIN PRIORITY AMEMBASSY CANBERRA PRIORITY AMEMBASSY LONDON PRIORITY AMEMBASSY MOSCOW PRIORITY AMEMBASSY PARIS PRIORITY AMEMBASSY TOKYO PRIORITY NSC WASHINGTON DC PRIORITY
C O N F I D E N T I A L PARTO 100602
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/04/2018
TAGS: OVIP RICE CONDOLEEZZA PREL PTER MASS IN
SUBJECT: (U) SECRETARY RICE'S OCTOBER 4, 2008 CONVERSATION
WITH INDIAN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS MINISTER PRANAB MUKHERJEE
C O N F I D E N T I A L PARTO 100602
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/04/2018
TAGS: OVIP RICE CONDOLEEZZA PREL PTER MASS IN
SUBJECT: (U) SECRETARY RICE'S OCTOBER 4, 2008 CONVERSATION
WITH INDIAN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS MINISTER PRANAB MUKHERJEE
1. (U) Classified by: Paul Wohlers, Deputy Executive
Secretary, S/ES, Department of State, Reason 1.4 (d).
2. (U) October 4, 2008: 3:30 p.m.; New Delhi, India.
3. (U) Participants:
U.S.
The Secretary
Ambassador David Mulford
SCA Affairs Assistant Secretary Richard Boucher
PA Assistant Secretary Sean McCormack
Joint Chiefs of Staff Lt. General William Fraser
National Security Council Senior Director Mark Webber
Chief of Staff Brian Gunderson
Les Viguerie (Notetaker)
India
External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee
National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan
Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon
Special Envoy to the Prime Minister Shyam Saran
Ambassador Ronen Sen
Adviser to the Foreign Minister Omita Paul
Ministry of External Affairs Joint Secretary Gaitri Kumar
4. (C) Summary: Secretary Rice and External Affairs
Minister Mukherjee acknowledged the deepening of U.S.-
Indian relations as reflected in congressional approval of
the Civil Nuclear Initiative. They discussed Pakistan and
Afghanistan, India's relations with China, Iran, and
Burma, and defense cooperation. End Summary.
--------------
CIVIL NUCLEAR AGREEMENT
--------------
5. (C) Mukherjee expressed his satisfaction with
congressional approval of the Civil Nuclear Agreement
between the United States and India and appreciated the
critical role played by the President and Secretary in
securing passage. He said the Agreement symbolized the
transformation of bilateral ties that had begun seven
years ago. Mukherjee noted that conclusion of the
Agreement opened a new chapter in the relationship. He
looked forward to further deepening of cooperation so that
India and the United States could work together
internationally to address new global challenges. In his
view, congressional support for the Agreement was a
bipartisan vote in favor of stronger ties, which would
carry forward in the future. The Secretary agreed that
the large bipartisan majorities in both houses of Congress
in favor of the Agreement were a welcome sign. She said
that the President would soon sign the legislation
approving the Agreement, and she hoped that arrangements
could then be made quickly to have a bilateral signing
ceremony.
--------------
AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN
--------------
6. (C) Observing that India lived in a dangerous
neighborhood, Mukherjee urged greater U.S. coordination
with India on instability in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He
said India cannot isolate itself from growing violence and
extremism in Pakistan. India shares U.S. goals to
strengthen democratic forces in Pakistan; while the United
States and India may approach this in different ways,
tighter coordination would aid both efforts. Mukherjee
offered his assessment that the Pakistani Army and
intelligence service were part of the problem and that,
while Pakistan's civilian leadership recognized this, they
were unable to do much to rein in competing power centers.
He was skeptical that the change in the leadership of
Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Directorate
would lead to change. Meanwhile, India had growing
concerns about extremist organizations in Pakistan,
particularly the Jaamat ud-Dawa, and India sought to have
the organization listed as a terrorist organization by the
UN Security Council.
7. (C) Turning to Afghanistan, Mukherjee said that the
security situation had been deteriorating for some time
and that matters had taken a turn for the worse in the
last six months. He stressed that India was worried that,
as Afghanistan approached its elections, there would be a
"politically fluid" situation. In his view, carrying out
peaceful elections would pose a major challenge to
security forces. The Secretary noted that the United
States was carrying out an across-the-board review of its
efforts in Afghanistan to determine the right strategy to
support stabilization and reconstruction. One key
component of this strategy would be the strengthening of
the Afghan Army. The United States was looking at ways to
fund this effort. Noting India's generous contributions
to Afghan reconstruction, the Secretary said any Indian
support for Afghan security forces would be appreciated.
Mukherjee noted Indian financial support of Afghan
reconstruction efforts, but said India had not provided
security forces for Afghanistan because of Pakistani
sensitivities.
8. (C) The Secretary underlined U.S. concerns about the
rise in extremism in Pakistan. She noted that Pakistan's
security problems were in part due to militants in the
North West Frontier Province and the Federally
Administered Tribal Areas. Militancy there was affecting
the rest of Pakistan. She said the Pakistanis understood
this and were trying to increase their capacity to fight
militants in tribal areas. The Secretary said the United
States was gaining confidence in Pakistan Chief of Army
Staff Ashfaq Kayani. She hoped that Pakistani political
forces were coalescing around President Zardari, who also
faced a difficult economic situation. The Secretary noted
Indian concerns about violence in Jammu and Kashmir and
firings across the Line of Control. She stressed U.S.
interest in continued good relations between India and
Pakistan. She also encouraged Indian efforts to reach out
to the new government and urged continuation of the
various dialogues.
9. (C) Mukherjee stressed India's interest in helping
the Zardari government as well as Pakistani civil society.
He noted that it was easier for India if either the
military or civilians were in charge in Islamabad, but
that now it was difficult to tell who had power, asking
rhetorically whether the current political leaders "can
deliver the goods." He underlined that India would
continue its Composite Dialogue with Pakistan. Mukherjee
pointed to increased people-to-people contacts and steps
like the planned mid-October opening of cross-border trade
as long-term solutions to tensions, but noted that
terrorist attacks in India undercut public support for
better relations with Pakistan.
--------------
CHINA
--------------
10. (C) Responding to the Secretary's question about
Indo-China relations, Mukherjee said India had been
disappointed in the most recent round of talks between
National Security Adviser Narayanan and his Chinese
counterpart over border disputes. He charged that China
had gone back on prior understandings about the border
between Sikkim and Tibet. Mukherjee added that India had
not received a satisfactory explanation for China's
behind-the-scenes support to Nuclear Suppliers Group
members who had opposed granting India an exception.
While noting India's economic and trade ties with China
were booming, Mukherjee pointed to China's long-standing
relations with Pakistan and renewed interest in Bangladesh
as examples of China seeking leverage in the region. He
said it was difficult to understand or explain China's
interest in the Bay of Bengal and that these "signals"
were not consistent with the "strategic and cooperative
partnership" between India and China.
--------------
IRAN
--------------
11. (C) The Secretary warned that differences between
the international community and Iran over its nuclear
program were getting worse, pointing to Tehran's lack of
cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency
(IAEA) and its failure to address questions about its
program. She said that major banks and companies were
leaving Iran and that further sanctions were likely.
Mukherjee reiterated India's position that Iran had a
right to pursue peaceful uses of nuclear power, but that
it also had a responsibility as an Non-Proliferation
Treaty signatory to address IAEA concerns about its
nuclear program. He questioned the efficacy of sanctions
without Russian and Chinese support, but said that India
would try to persuade Iran to respond to international
concerns. The Secretary noted that Iran was already
feeling the effects of sanctions and that continued
pressure and increased isolation could lead Iran's next
leaders to be more reasonable than Ahmadinejad.
--------------
BURMA
--------------
12. (C) Mukherjee defended India's ties with Burma,
saying that India wanted to prevent China from achieving
overwhelming influence there. He said India continued to
press the Burmese leadership to enact political reforms
and take into account all stakeholders and claimed that
India had facilitated contacts between the UN and Burma.
He noted India's long border with Burma meant Burma could
make trouble for India through support of separatists in
northeastern India. The Secretary urged India to continue
to press the Burmese government and noted that India could
face even bigger problems, given the instability created
by Burma's military rulers.
--------------
UN SECURITY COUNCIL REFORM
--------------
13. (C) Mukherjee made a pitch for a permanent seat for
India in the UN Security Council, noting that there was a
growing appreciation among UN members for India's capacity
to serve on the Council. He argued that membership on the
Council should reflect today's realities and asked for
U.S. support as India moved forward. The Secretary agreed
that India had a good case to make as a democracy and a
global power, but noted that reforming the Council would
be hard because there was some resistance to every
potential new permanent member.
--------------
DEFENSE COOPERATION
--------------
14. (C) Mukherjee noted that bilateral ties were
expanding in a broad range of fields, but singled out
defense cooperation as particularly promising. He noted
the scale and frequency of military exercises had
increased and that India was interested in joint research
and development, co-development, and co-production of
military equipment. Mukherjee passed to the Secretary a
proposal to resolve the question of End Use Monitoring for
military systems with sensitive U.S. technologies and said
he hoped there could soon be an agreement on this issue.
He also hoped for early agreement on a logistics support
agreement to facilitate joint military exercises and a
communications agreement to foster military
interoperability.
RICE
SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/04/2018
TAGS: OVIP RICE CONDOLEEZZA PREL PTER MASS IN
SUBJECT: (U) SECRETARY RICE'S OCTOBER 4, 2008 CONVERSATION
WITH INDIAN EXTERNAL AFFAIRS MINISTER PRANAB MUKHERJEE
1. (U) Classified by: Paul Wohlers, Deputy Executive
Secretary, S/ES, Department of State, Reason 1.4 (d).
2. (U) October 4, 2008: 3:30 p.m.; New Delhi, India.
3. (U) Participants:
U.S.
The Secretary
Ambassador David Mulford
SCA Affairs Assistant Secretary Richard Boucher
PA Assistant Secretary Sean McCormack
Joint Chiefs of Staff Lt. General William Fraser
National Security Council Senior Director Mark Webber
Chief of Staff Brian Gunderson
Les Viguerie (Notetaker)
India
External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee
National Security Adviser M.K. Narayanan
Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon
Special Envoy to the Prime Minister Shyam Saran
Ambassador Ronen Sen
Adviser to the Foreign Minister Omita Paul
Ministry of External Affairs Joint Secretary Gaitri Kumar
4. (C) Summary: Secretary Rice and External Affairs
Minister Mukherjee acknowledged the deepening of U.S.-
Indian relations as reflected in congressional approval of
the Civil Nuclear Initiative. They discussed Pakistan and
Afghanistan, India's relations with China, Iran, and
Burma, and defense cooperation. End Summary.
--------------
CIVIL NUCLEAR AGREEMENT
--------------
5. (C) Mukherjee expressed his satisfaction with
congressional approval of the Civil Nuclear Agreement
between the United States and India and appreciated the
critical role played by the President and Secretary in
securing passage. He said the Agreement symbolized the
transformation of bilateral ties that had begun seven
years ago. Mukherjee noted that conclusion of the
Agreement opened a new chapter in the relationship. He
looked forward to further deepening of cooperation so that
India and the United States could work together
internationally to address new global challenges. In his
view, congressional support for the Agreement was a
bipartisan vote in favor of stronger ties, which would
carry forward in the future. The Secretary agreed that
the large bipartisan majorities in both houses of Congress
in favor of the Agreement were a welcome sign. She said
that the President would soon sign the legislation
approving the Agreement, and she hoped that arrangements
could then be made quickly to have a bilateral signing
ceremony.
--------------
AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN
--------------
6. (C) Observing that India lived in a dangerous
neighborhood, Mukherjee urged greater U.S. coordination
with India on instability in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He
said India cannot isolate itself from growing violence and
extremism in Pakistan. India shares U.S. goals to
strengthen democratic forces in Pakistan; while the United
States and India may approach this in different ways,
tighter coordination would aid both efforts. Mukherjee
offered his assessment that the Pakistani Army and
intelligence service were part of the problem and that,
while Pakistan's civilian leadership recognized this, they
were unable to do much to rein in competing power centers.
He was skeptical that the change in the leadership of
Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Directorate
would lead to change. Meanwhile, India had growing
concerns about extremist organizations in Pakistan,
particularly the Jaamat ud-Dawa, and India sought to have
the organization listed as a terrorist organization by the
UN Security Council.
7. (C) Turning to Afghanistan, Mukherjee said that the
security situation had been deteriorating for some time
and that matters had taken a turn for the worse in the
last six months. He stressed that India was worried that,
as Afghanistan approached its elections, there would be a
"politically fluid" situation. In his view, carrying out
peaceful elections would pose a major challenge to
security forces. The Secretary noted that the United
States was carrying out an across-the-board review of its
efforts in Afghanistan to determine the right strategy to
support stabilization and reconstruction. One key
component of this strategy would be the strengthening of
the Afghan Army. The United States was looking at ways to
fund this effort. Noting India's generous contributions
to Afghan reconstruction, the Secretary said any Indian
support for Afghan security forces would be appreciated.
Mukherjee noted Indian financial support of Afghan
reconstruction efforts, but said India had not provided
security forces for Afghanistan because of Pakistani
sensitivities.
8. (C) The Secretary underlined U.S. concerns about the
rise in extremism in Pakistan. She noted that Pakistan's
security problems were in part due to militants in the
North West Frontier Province and the Federally
Administered Tribal Areas. Militancy there was affecting
the rest of Pakistan. She said the Pakistanis understood
this and were trying to increase their capacity to fight
militants in tribal areas. The Secretary said the United
States was gaining confidence in Pakistan Chief of Army
Staff Ashfaq Kayani. She hoped that Pakistani political
forces were coalescing around President Zardari, who also
faced a difficult economic situation. The Secretary noted
Indian concerns about violence in Jammu and Kashmir and
firings across the Line of Control. She stressed U.S.
interest in continued good relations between India and
Pakistan. She also encouraged Indian efforts to reach out
to the new government and urged continuation of the
various dialogues.
9. (C) Mukherjee stressed India's interest in helping
the Zardari government as well as Pakistani civil society.
He noted that it was easier for India if either the
military or civilians were in charge in Islamabad, but
that now it was difficult to tell who had power, asking
rhetorically whether the current political leaders "can
deliver the goods." He underlined that India would
continue its Composite Dialogue with Pakistan. Mukherjee
pointed to increased people-to-people contacts and steps
like the planned mid-October opening of cross-border trade
as long-term solutions to tensions, but noted that
terrorist attacks in India undercut public support for
better relations with Pakistan.
--------------
CHINA
--------------
10. (C) Responding to the Secretary's question about
Indo-China relations, Mukherjee said India had been
disappointed in the most recent round of talks between
National Security Adviser Narayanan and his Chinese
counterpart over border disputes. He charged that China
had gone back on prior understandings about the border
between Sikkim and Tibet. Mukherjee added that India had
not received a satisfactory explanation for China's
behind-the-scenes support to Nuclear Suppliers Group
members who had opposed granting India an exception.
While noting India's economic and trade ties with China
were booming, Mukherjee pointed to China's long-standing
relations with Pakistan and renewed interest in Bangladesh
as examples of China seeking leverage in the region. He
said it was difficult to understand or explain China's
interest in the Bay of Bengal and that these "signals"
were not consistent with the "strategic and cooperative
partnership" between India and China.
--------------
IRAN
--------------
11. (C) The Secretary warned that differences between
the international community and Iran over its nuclear
program were getting worse, pointing to Tehran's lack of
cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency
(IAEA) and its failure to address questions about its
program. She said that major banks and companies were
leaving Iran and that further sanctions were likely.
Mukherjee reiterated India's position that Iran had a
right to pursue peaceful uses of nuclear power, but that
it also had a responsibility as an Non-Proliferation
Treaty signatory to address IAEA concerns about its
nuclear program. He questioned the efficacy of sanctions
without Russian and Chinese support, but said that India
would try to persuade Iran to respond to international
concerns. The Secretary noted that Iran was already
feeling the effects of sanctions and that continued
pressure and increased isolation could lead Iran's next
leaders to be more reasonable than Ahmadinejad.
--------------
BURMA
--------------
12. (C) Mukherjee defended India's ties with Burma,
saying that India wanted to prevent China from achieving
overwhelming influence there. He said India continued to
press the Burmese leadership to enact political reforms
and take into account all stakeholders and claimed that
India had facilitated contacts between the UN and Burma.
He noted India's long border with Burma meant Burma could
make trouble for India through support of separatists in
northeastern India. The Secretary urged India to continue
to press the Burmese government and noted that India could
face even bigger problems, given the instability created
by Burma's military rulers.
--------------
UN SECURITY COUNCIL REFORM
--------------
13. (C) Mukherjee made a pitch for a permanent seat for
India in the UN Security Council, noting that there was a
growing appreciation among UN members for India's capacity
to serve on the Council. He argued that membership on the
Council should reflect today's realities and asked for
U.S. support as India moved forward. The Secretary agreed
that India had a good case to make as a democracy and a
global power, but noted that reforming the Council would
be hard because there was some resistance to every
potential new permanent member.
--------------
DEFENSE COOPERATION
--------------
14. (C) Mukherjee noted that bilateral ties were
expanding in a broad range of fields, but singled out
defense cooperation as particularly promising. He noted
the scale and frequency of military exercises had
increased and that India was interested in joint research
and development, co-development, and co-production of
military equipment. Mukherjee passed to the Secretary a
proposal to resolve the question of End Use Monitoring for
military systems with sensitive U.S. technologies and said
he hoped there could soon be an agreement on this issue.
He also hoped for early agreement on a logistics support
agreement to facilitate joint military exercises and a
communications agreement to foster military
interoperability.
RICE