INDIAN HOME MINISTRY SECRETARY GUPTA RECEPTIVE TO

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 NEW DELHI 002552

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 09/19/2018
TAGS: IN PGOV PHUM PREL PTER SOCI KWRF
SUBJECT: INDIAN HOME MINISTRY SECRETARY GUPTA RECEPTIVE TO
OFFER OF COUNTERTERRORISM ASSISTANCE AND TO U.S. CONCERNS
ABOUT RELIGIOUS VIOLENCE

REF: A) NEW DELHI 2498 B) NEW DELHI 2513 C) CHENNAI 315

NEW DELHI 00002552 001.2 OF 002


Classified By: Ambassador David Mulford for Reasons 1.4 (B, D)


1. (C) Summary: Ambassador met with Home Ministry Secretary
Madhukar Gupta on September 19 to give condolences for the
September 13 terrorist attacks, offer the GOI a look into the
USG's model of counterterrorism, and express U.S. concerns
about recent violence directed at religious minorities in the
Indian states of Orissa and Karnataka (Ref A, B, and C).
Gupta, a seasoned bureaucrat, described India's multiple
efforts in countering terrorism and candidly spoke of the
challenges presented by coordinating local efforts with
national and state efforts. He was receptive to our offer to
have an Indian team visit the United States to examine the
U.S. counterterrorism model post-9/11, but only following
India's holiday season. He also agreed to receive a paper on
the comprehensive measures taken by the USG post-9/11. We will
quickly follow-up by providing such a document. On the matter
of religious freedom and recent anti-Christian violence, Gupta
appeared equally engaged and described the steps the GOI is
taking to bolster law and order in Orissa and Karnataka.
End Summary.

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GOOD RECEPTION ON OFFER OF COUNTERTERRORISM COOPERATION
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2. (C) Ambassador opened by expressing condolences for the
victims of the serial terrorist attacks that occurred in New
Delhi on September 13. The terrorists are using similar
methods in targeting various parts along the breadth and
length of India, providing great challenges for any national
government. The Ambassador candidly told Gupta that maybe now
is an opportune time to deepen counterterrorism cooperation
with India in light of this new terrorist challenge and the
debate within India about passing a new anti-terrorism law.
Like India, the United States has a federal structure and
faced a similar challenge of coordinating among various
levels of government administration after the 9/11 attacks.
Perhaps, India could benefit by examining some of the immense
changes the U.S. Government made. The Ambassador was clear
that the United States does not seek joint counterterrorism
operations with India but suggested that we could provide the
GOI with a paper describing the comprehensive steps the USG
has taken post-9/11 to prevent future acts of terrorism and
improve coordination between law enforcement agencies in the
United States. Gupta replied that he would welcome such a
paper and had received a similar offer and paper from the
German Embassy this week. He agreed that coordination across
jurisdictions is a challenge, and said the GOI has a
three-tier approach focused on the national, state, and
local levels. The GOI has also established a 24/7 multi-
agency center but admitted that this has been plagued by
staffing problems.


3. (C) The Ambassador directed Gupta's attention to the
RSO and Legal AttachQ who described the changes the United
State made to improve coordination across federal, state,
and local jurisdictions. Legal AttachQ told Gupta that the
United States learned lessons the hard way. Prior to 9/11,
there was no political will or multi-agency approach to
countering the terrorist threat. However, after 9/11, the
US Government created a community-based model of prevention
that focused on a bottom-up approach of more direct interaction
with local and state law enforcement. The model ensured that
local and state police officials were able to connect with
other USG officials across the United States and with
international partners. Gupta responded that the GOI is
confident in its effectiveness at the federal and state level
but that the local level, the constable on the patrol, remains a
challenge. Over the years, the effectiveness of the local
police has eroded. The GOI has pressed states to remedy this
and renew the constable system. The GOI is also making efforts
to involve civil society such as business organizations and
civil defense. Gupta illustrated the success of cooperating
with civil society by citing the lack of casualties from the
terrorist attack in the Greater Kailash neighborhood on
September 19. Only 15 days earlier, the people of the area had
practiced a drill and therefore were able to evacuate the
area around the bombing within five minutes. Gupta added
that the use of local elements by terrorist outfits, such as
Lashkar-e-Toiba, to execute terrorist acts is a particular

NEW DELHI 00002552 002.2 OF 002


challenge. Like the United Kingdom, India has to keep in mind
the huge sensitivities of the local communities within
which violent extremists often operate. Gupta agreed
that it would be useful to see the U.S. model and what
India could replicate. The Ambassador emphasized that one
of the most important requirements is a recognition by all
stakeholders of the scope and nature of all that needs to
be changed.


4. (C) Gupta suggested that a discussion on technology as
well as how one can detect whether terrorists are placing
explosives could be useful. The Ambassador agreed and
invited Gupta to send a team to visit the United States.
The Legal AttachQ added that the team could also tour the
U.S. National Counterterrorism Center. Gupta agreed, adding
that he would be happy to send a team after two or three months
when the holiday season passed.

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CENTRAL GOVERNMENT TAKING ACTIONS AGAINST TO STOP FURTHER
ANTI-CHRISTIAN VIOLENCE
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5. (C) Moving to the matter of religious freedom, the
Ambassador told Gupta that the Secretary will release the
International Religious Freedom (IRF) report today. Since
the report can be sensitive, he told Gupta that he wanted
to highlight some specific issues. The U.S. Embassy sent a
team to Orissa (Ref A) which reported the complex social and
economic factors that combined with religion to trigger the
violence in the state. Regarding Karnataka, the Ambassador
frankly told Gupta that the USG and many groups in the U.S.
are very concerned about the nature of the violence directed
toward Christians. The USG is aware that some new Christian
groups in Karnataka utilize aggressive proselytizing
tactics; however, the actions by the police suggest
that some of the violence is politically motivated. The
Ambassador informed Gupta that the recent violence against
Christians do not fall in the reporting period of the IRF
but would very likely receive attention during the report's
public release.


6. (C) Agreeing with the Embassy's analysis of the situation
in Orissa, Gupta described the complex tribal and caste
tensions in the state. He believed the fundamental problem is
related to caste. Gupta stressed that that the GOI has sent
clear directives to state and local officials not to maintain
law and order and not allow disruptive actions that cause
further turmoil. Turning to Karnataka, Gupta said he shared U.S.
concerns and told the Ambassador that has talked daily to
the Karnataka state secretary about maintaining peace.
In addition, the GOI has issued a strong message to the state
government. (Note. The media report that the GOI is preparing
a formal warning to the Karnataka government under Article 355
of the Indian constitution. Article 355 states that it shall
be the duty of the Union to protect every State against external
aggression and internal disturbance. End Note.) Gupta stressed
that this type of tension always attracts some "lumpen elements"
who cause further disorder; however, he understands that people
cannot be allowed to take the law into their own hands.
The Ambassador reiterated U.S. concerns about the participation
of the police in the violence and the importance of police
neutrality. Gupta replied that this is unfortunately sometimes
the case throughout the world; however, the GOI hopes the
strong message it has sent to the state government proves
effective. (Note. The past two days has seen very little
anti-Christian violence in the state. End Note.)



7. (C) Comment. Gupta seemed receptive to our offer to pass
a paper describing our post-9/11 counterterrorism model, in
addition to sending a GOI team to visit the United States. We
need to quickly follow-up by sending the paper. The USG has
often had a difficult time engaging the Indians on
counterterrorism. The opening provided by this meeting could
change the dynamic if the GOI eventually finds the U.S.
model useful in improving its own national model to meet
the terrorist challenge. (Note. The Legal AttachQ plans to
send the paper to the GOI next week. End Note).

MULFORD