INDIAN HOME MINISTRY SECRETARY GUPTA RECEPTIVE TO

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 NEW DELHI 002545

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 09/19/2018
TAGS: IN PGOV PHUM PREL PTER SOCI KWRF
SUBJECT: INDIAN HOME MINISTRY SECRETARY GUPTA RECEPTIVE TO
OFFER OF COUNTERTERRORISM ASSISTANCE AND TO U.S. CONCERNS
ABOUT RELIGIOUS VIOLENCE

REF: A) NEW DELHI 2498 B) NEW DELHI 2513 C) CHENNAI 315

NEW DELHI 00002545 001.2 OF 003


Classified By: Ambassador David Mulford for Reasons 1.4 (B, D)


1. (C) Summary: Ambassador met with Home Ministry Secretary
Madhukar
Gupta on September 19 to give condolences for the September
13 terrorist
attacks, offer the GOI a look into the USG's model of
counterterrorism,
and express U.S. concerns about recent violence directed at
religious minorities in the Indian states of Orissa and
Karnataka (Ref A, B, and C). Gupta, a seasoned bureaucrat,
described
India's multiple efforts in countering terrorism and candidly
spoke of the challenges presented by coordinating local
efforts
with national and state efforts. He was receptive to our
offer to
have an Indian team visit the United States to examine the
U.S.
counterterrorism model post-9/11, but only following India's
holiday
season. He also agreed to receive a paper on the
comprehensive measures
taken by the USG post-9/11. We will quickly follow-up by
providing
such a document. On the matter of religious freedom and
recent
anti-Christian violence, Gupta appeared equally engaged and
described
the steps the GOI is taking to bolster law and order in
Orissa and
Karnataka. End Summary.

-------------- --------------
GOOD RECEPTION ON OFFER OF COUNTERTERRORISM COOPERATION
-------------- --------------


2. (C) Ambassador opened by expressing condolences for the
victims
of the serial terrorist attacks that occurred in New Delhi on
September 13. The terrorists are using similar methods in
targeting
various parts along the breadth and length of India,
providing great
challenges for any national government. The Ambassador
candidly told
Gupta that maybe now is an opportune time to deepen
counterterrorism
cooperation with India in light of this new terrorist
challenge
and the debate within India about passing a new
anti-terrorism
law. Like India, the United States has a federal structure
and faced
a similar challenge of coordinating among various levels of
government
administration after the 9/11 attacks. Perhaps, India could
benefit
by examining some of the immense changes the U.S. Government
made.
The Ambassador was clear that the United States does not seek
joint
counterterrorism operations with India but suggested
that we could provide the GOI with a paper describing the
comprehensive steps the USG has taken post-9/11 to prevent
future
acts of terrorism and improve coordination between law
enforcement
agencies in the United States. Gupta replied that he would
welcome such a paper and had received a similar offer and
paper
from the German Embassy this week. He agreed that
coordination
across jurisdictions is a challenge, and said the GOI has a
three-tier approach focused on the national, state, and local
levels. The GOI has also established a 24/7 multi-agency
center
but admitted that this has been plagued by staffing problems.



3. (C) The Ambassador directed Gupta's attention to the RSO

NEW DELHI 00002545 002.2 OF 003


and
Legal Attach who described the changes the United State made
to
improve coordination across federal, state, and local
jurisdictions. Legal Attach told Gupta that the United
States
learned lessons the hard way. Prior to 9/11, there was no
political
will or multi-agency approach to countering the terrorist
threat. However, after 9/11, the US Government created a
community-based model of prevention that focused on a
bottom-up
approach of more direct interaction with local and state law
enforcement. The model ensured that local and state police
officials were able to connect with other USG officials
across
the United States and with international partners. Gupta
responded that the GOI is confident in its effectiveness at
the federal and state level but that the local level, the
constable on the patrol, remains a challenge. Over the
years,
the effectiveness of the local police has eroded. The GOI
has pressed states to remedy this and renew the constable
system. The GOI is also making efforts to involve civil
society
such as business organizations and civil defense. Gupta
illustrated the success of cooperating with civil society
by citing the lack of casualties from the terrorist attack
in the Greater Kailash neighborhood on September 19. Only
15 days earlier, the people of the area had practiced a
drill and therefore were able to evacuate the area around
the bombing within five minutes. Gupta added that the use
of local elements by terrorist outfits, such as
Lashkar-e-Toiba, to execute terrorist acts is a particular
challenge. Like the United Kingdom, India has to keep in
mind
the huge sensitivities of the local communities within
which violent extremists often operate. Gupta agreed
that it would be useful to see the U.S. model and what
India could replicate. The Ambassador emphasized that one
of the most important requirements is a recognition by all
stakeholders of the scope and nature of all that needs to
be changed.


4. (C) Gupta suggested that a discussion on technology as
well
as how one can detect whether terrorists are placing
explosives
could be useful. The Ambassador agreed and invited Gupta to
send a team to visit the United States. The Legal Attach
added
that the team could also tour the U.S. National
Counterterrorism
Center. Gupta agreed, adding that he would be happy to send
a
team after two or three months when the holiday season passed.

-------------- --------------
CENTRAL GOVERNMENT TAKING ACTIONS AGAINST TO STOP FURTHER
ANTI-CHRISTIAN VIOLENCE
-------------- --------------


5. (C) Moving to the matter of religious freedom, the
Ambassador told Gupta that the Secretary will release the
International Religious Freedom (IRF) report today. Since
the report can be sensitive, he told Gupta that he wanted
to highlight some specific issues. The U.S. Embassy sent a
team to Orissa (Ref A) which reported the complex social and
economic factors that combined with religion to trigger the
violence in the state. Regarding Karnataka, the Ambassador
frankly told Gupta that the USG and many groups in the U.S.
are very concerned about the nature of the violence directed
toward Christians. The USG is aware that some new Christian
groups in Karnataka utilize aggressive proselytizing
tactics; however, the actions by the police suggest
that some of the violence is politically motivated. The
Ambassador informed Gupta that the recent violence against
Christians do not fall in the reporting period of the IRF
but would very likely receive attention during the report's
public release.


6. (C) Agreeing with the Embassy's analysis of the situation
in Orissa, Gupta described the complex tribal and caste

NEW DELHI 00002545 003.2 OF 003


tensions in the state. He believed the fundamental problem
is
related to caste. Gupta stressed that that the GOI has sent
clear directives to state and local officials not to maintain
law and order and not allow disruptive actions that cause
further
turmoil. Turning to Karnataka, Gupta said he shared U.S.
concerns
and told the Ambassador that has talked daily to the
Karnataka
state secretary about maintaining peace. In addition, the
GOI
has issued a strong message to the state government. (Note.
The
media report that the GOI is preparing a formal warning to
the
Karnataka government under Article 355 of the Indian
constitution.
Article 355 states that it shall be the duty of the Union to
protect every State against external aggression and internal
disturbance. End Note.) Gupta stressed that this type of
tension
always attracts some "lumpen elements" who cause further
disorder;
however, he understands that people cannot be allowed to take
the
law into their own hands. The Ambassador reiterated U.S.
concerns
about the participation of the police in the violence and the
importance of police neutrality. Gupta replied that this is
unfortunately sometimes the case throughout the world;
however,
the GOI hopes the strong message it has sent to the state
government proves effective. (Note. The past two days has
seen
very little anti-Christian violence in the state. End Note.)



7. (C) Comment. Gupta seemed receptive to our offer to pass
a paper describing our post-9/11 counterterrorism model, in
addition to sending a GOI team to visit the United States. We
need to quickly follow-up by sending the paper. The USG has
often had a difficult time engaging the Indians on
counterterrorism. The opening provided by this meeting could
change the dynamic if the GOI eventually finds the U.S.
model useful in improving its own national model to meet
the terrorist challenge. (Note. The Legal Attach plans to
send the paper to the GOI next week. End Note).

MULFORD