Identifier
Created
Classification
Origin
08BEIJING2827
2008-07-21 09:13:00
CONFIDENTIAL
Embassy Beijing
Cable title:  

THE U.S.)CHINA HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE, AFTERNOON

Tags:  PHUM PREL KIRF KOLY CH UN 
pdf how-to read a cable
VZCZCXRO2302
PP RUEHCN RUEHGH RUEHVC
DE RUEHBJ #2827/01 2030913
ZNY CCCCC ZZH
P 210913Z JUL 08
FM AMEMBASSY BEIJING
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 8687
INFO RUEHOO/CHINA POSTS COLLECTIVE PRIORITY
RHMFISS/CDR USPACOM HONOLULU HI PRIORITY
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHINGTON DC PRIORITY
RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC PRIORITY
RHEHNSC/NSC WASHDC PRIORITY
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 06 BEIJING 002827 

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 07/21/2033
TAGS: PHUM PREL KIRF KOLY CH UN
SUBJECT: THE U.S.)CHINA HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE, AFTERNOON
SESSION: RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, TIBET

Classified By: Political Minister Counselor Aubrey Carlson. Reasons
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 06 BEIJING 002827

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 07/21/2033
TAGS: PHUM PREL KIRF KOLY CH UN
SUBJECT: THE U.S.)CHINA HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE, AFTERNOON
SESSION: RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, TIBET

Classified By: Political Minister Counselor Aubrey Carlson. Reasons 1.
4 (b) and (d).


1. (U) May 26, 2008; 3:00 p.m.; Beijing, Diaoyutai State
Guesthouse.


2. (U) Participants:

U.S.
David J. Kramer, Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy,
Human Rights and Labor
John V. Hanford, Ambassador at Large for International
Religious Freedom
Thomas Christensen, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for
East Asian and Pacific Affairs
Dan Piccuta, Charge d'Affaires, a.i., U.S. Embassy Beijing
Robert K. Harris, Assistant Legal Advisor, Department of State
Richard W. Behrend, PRM Advisor, Department of State
Susan O'Sullivan, Senior Advisor, Bureau of Democracy, Human
Rights and Labor, Department of State
Dan Kritenbrink, Internal Unit Chief, Political Section,
Embassy Beijing
Emilie L. Kao, Foreign Affairs Officer, Bureau of Democracy
Human Rights, and Labor, Department of State
Jeannette M. Windon, Special Assistant, Office of Democracy
and Global Affairs, Department of State
Steve Goldrup, Second Secretary, U.S. Embassy Beijing
Andrea Goodman, Political Officer, Bureau of East Asian and
Pacific Affairs, Department of State
Ben Moeling, Deputy Chief, Political Section, Embassy Beijing
(notetaker)
Jim Brown, Interpreter

PRC
Wu Hailong, Director General, International Organizations and
Conferences Department, MFA
Shen Yongxiang, Deputy Director General, International
Organizations and Conferences Department, MFA
Yao Maochen, Deputy Inspector, United Front Work Department,
CPC Central Committee
Teng Wei, Deputy Director General, Criminal Division,
Legislative Affairs Commission of the National People's
Congress Standing Committee
Wan Yonghai, Presiding Judge, Second Criminal Division,
Supreme People's Court
Sun Maoli, Deputy Director General, Legal Affairs Department,
Ministry of Public Security
Liu Guoyu, Deputy Director General, Prison Administration
Department, Ministry of Justice
Guo Wei, Director General, Foreign Affairs Department, State
Administration for Religious Affairs
Liu Zhengrong, Director General (acting),Fifth Department,
State Council Information Office

Suolang Renzeng, Deputy Chief, Administration for Ethnic and
Religious Affairs, Tibetan Autonomous Region
Zhao Yubin, Division Director, North American and Oceanian
Affairs Department, MFA
Yan Jiarong, Division Director, International Organizations
and Conferences Department, MFA
Yao Shaojun, Deputy Division Director, International
Organizations and Conferences Department, MFA
Xu Jing, Deputy Division Director, International
Organizations and Conferences Department, MFA
Zu Yanwei, Attache, International Organizations and
Conferences Department, MFA
Liu Lingxiao, Attache, International Organizations and
Conferences Department, MFA
Fang Qiang, Interpreter, MFA

SUMMARY
--------------


3. (C) In the Second Session of the 14th U.S.-China Human
Rights Dialogue (HRD) on May 26, 2008, Ambassador at Large
for International Religious Freedom John Hanford covered
issues involving all major religious groups in China with
emphasis on registration of religious groups (including house
churches) and religious traditions regarded as sacred by
Tibetan Buddhists (including the recognition of spiritual
leaders) and Uighur Muslims (including the hajj). Ambassador
Hanford followed up on several matters discussed during
previous trips to China, including the 2002 HRD, in an effort
to gain agreement on issues that were raised during those
meetings. Ambassador Hanford raised the U.S.-China
Interagency Working Group on Religious Freedom, which he had
first discussed in 2002 with former MFA International
Organizations Department Director General Li Baodong. (Note:
In a private discussion with Ambassador Hanford later,

BEIJING 00002827 002 OF 006


Director General Wu Hailong indicated that he would honor DG
Li's commitment and establish the working group.) In
response to a query from Ambassador Hanford, a representative
of the State Administration for Religious Affairs (SARA)
clarified that the right to freedom of religious belief
guaranteed by China's constitution extends to children under
the age of 18. Assistant Secretary Kramer raised issues
involving Tibet, including our request that the Chinese
provide information on persons detained after the March
protests in Tibet to their families, that lawyers be allowed
to represent these detainees and that "patriotic education
campaigns" that force Tibetans to denounce the Dalai Lama be
discontinued. He urged China to cease vilification of the
Dalai Lama. End Summary.

AMBASSADOR HANFORD: THE ROLE OF RELIGION IN CHINA
-------------- --------------


4. (C) Ambassador Hanford offered his condolences to the
Chinese people on the destruction caused by the Sichuan
earthquake and thanked Director General Wu Hailong for the
invitation to visit China, as well as the hospitality the
Chinese Government has shown. He recalled his two previous
trips to China and noted that SARA had helped facilitate his
travel within China and had helped him better understand the
role of religion in Chinese society. He acknowledged that
China has had Muslim, Buddhist, Christian believers for
thousands of years and is home to Taoism and Confucianism.


5. (C) Religion continues to grow stronger in China,
Ambassador Hanford said. According to recent estimates,
there are as many as 300 million religious believers in
China. And, as President Hu Jintao has stated, the Communist
Party intends to fully implement the Party's policy of
religious freedom and has recognized the role religious
believers can play in building a "harmonious society" that is
peaceful, stable and prosperous.

RELIGIOUS EDUCATION
--------------


6. (C) Ambassador Hanford said the United States and China
came to agreement on several issues during the 2002 Human
Rights Dialogue, including religious education for minors.
Over the years, the U.S. side has heard reports of arrests
and harassment related to the teaching of children at their
places of worship, and even at home. In Ambassador Hanford's
two previous visits, he had productive discussions with
Chinese officials in which they clarified relevant Chinese
policies and agreed to make China's policies more public by
posting a statement. He commended the 2005 decision by the
Ministry of Foreign Affairs to post a notice on its website
that no laws restrict religious education in China and that
parents are allowed to instruct their children in religious
matters. Ambassador Hanford said he personally had observed
churches where young children attend Sunday School classes.
However, Ambassador Hanford noted that implementation of the
religious education for minors policy in China is uneven.


7. (C) Ambassador Hanford asked the Chinese Government to
codify the right of children to practice religion and
instruct the religious affairs bureaus about this policy at
all levels. He asked the Chinese Government to amend article
14 of the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region's 1993
implementing measures on the Law for the Protection of Minors
to reflect this policy. He requested that the Chinese
clarify whether Article 36 of the Constitution, which
protects Chinese citizens' freedom of religious belief,
applies to all Chinese citizens or only those who have
reached the age of 18.

HOUSE CHURCHES
--------------


8. (C) Ambassador Hanford raised the issue of the Chinese
policy toward worship in private homes by families or groups
of friends. He reminded the Chinese that in 2002 they
affirmed the right of families and friends to hold worship
meetings in their homes without registering. However, the
U.S. Government continues to receive reports that
implementation of this policy is sporadic. Arrests,
beatings, harassment and fines continue to be reported,
including one case where the leader of a house group was put
into a mental institution. Recently, Ambassador Hanford
stated, legal scholar and house church Christian Fan Yafeng
had a prayer meeting interrupted. This was particularly
difficult to understand because the purpose of the meeting
was to pray for the victims of the Sichuan earthquake.

BEIJING 00002827 003 OF 006




9. (C) Ambassador Hanford reiterated his request that the
Chinese Government codify its friends and family worship
policy, and provide training for local officials to implement
this policy. Many of the issues that alarm the American
people have to do with these sorts of cases. Ambassador
Hanford stressed that addressing these issues more vigorously
would go a long way toward mollifying criticisms.
Americans, he said, identify with Chinese people of faith no
matter what their religion. He cited two cases that have
been widely-publicized in America as examples of reports that
provoke criticism. He raised the arrests of 270 house church
pastors in Shandong and the imprisonment of Shuang Shuying,
the 76-year-old mother of a house church leader who was
sentenced to two years in prison. These cases regularly
generate inquiries from members of Congress and concerned
American citizens.

INTER-AGENCY WORKING GROUP
--------------


10. (C) In 2002, Ambassador Hanford made a specific request
to China to set up an Interagency Working Group on Religious
Freedom comprising government agencies involved in regulating
or prosecuting religious activity. Then-Director General Li
Baodong, after gaining approval from other Chinese Government
agencies, confirmed to Ambassador Hanford that the Working
Group would be established. In 2002, DG Li affirmed this in
a letter to then-Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy,
Human Rights and Labor Lorne Craner. (NOTE: Ambassador
Hanford handed DG Wu a copy of the 2002 letter from former
MFA DG Li, which is contained in reftel.) The letter
stipulated that the other agencies on the Chinese side would
be the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the State Administration
for Religious Affairs, the State Ethnic Affairs Commission,
the Ministry of Public Security and the United Front Work
Department. Ambassador Hanford noted that the White House
Office of Faith-Based Initiatives can potentially serve in a
supplementary capacity as issues of faith-based aid arise.
The purpose of the Working Group is to facilitate quiet
bilateral interaction on these issues and to enable the two
sides to work together quickly and efficiently when religious
freedom problems arise. On the sidelines, DG Wu later told
Ambassador Hanford that he would honor former DG Li's
commitment and establish the Working Group. Ambassador
Hanford noted that he hopes to return soon to China to
continue discussion of these key issues.


11. (C) Ambassador Hanford noted that in 2002, China agreed
to invite the UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Religion to
visit, and therefore, he urged the Chinese Government to set
specific dates for a visit of UN Special Rapporteur Asma
Jahangir.

COMMUNIST PARTY RULES, GROWTH OF RELIGION, LEGAL EXCHANGE
-------------- --------------


12. (C) Ambassador Hanford observed that in 2002 he suggested
that the Communist Party of China consider a change in its
policy to admit religious believers into its ranks. In 2002,
Ambassador Hanford was told that this "was under discussion."
A change in policy would be consistent with the recent
amendments to the Party Charter, which states that "The Party
. . . rallies religious believers in making contributions to
economic and social development."


13. (C) Ambassador Hanford raised the issue of the problems
created by the small number of registered places of worship.
In Beijing, he noted, there seem to be limited opportunities
to worship. There are approximately 20 Protestant churches,
10 Catholic churches, 70 mosques and a hundred temples. This
number seems far too low for a city of 17 million people and
a growing population of religious believers. What plans,
Ambassador Hanford asked, does China have to accommodate its
growing numbers of religious believers?


14. (C) Ambassador Hanford raised the need for a national
campaign on the importance of religion in society, citing the
enormous growth of religion in society in recent years. He
emphasized that in 2002, he and Zhuo Xinping of the World
Religions Institute at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences
agreed on the necessity of initiating such a campaign.
(NOTE: Zhuo briefed the Politburo at President Hu Jintao's
request in December 2007 on the growth of religion in China.)


15. (C) Ambassador Hanford expressed the view that a new law
on religion would benefit China and that the National
People's Congress could invite outside experts on religious

BEIJING 00002827 004 OF 006


freedom to provide input. Ambassador Hanford said he
believed there was openness to this idea in 2002 and that it
is consistent with China's claims that it is open to holding
legal exchanges with the United States. (NOTE: The prospect
of legal exchanges was raised in the morning session of the
plenary by L/HRR Assistant Legal Advisor Robert K. Harris.)


16. (C) Ambassador Hanford raised the issue of China's
educational curriculum, and how religion is handled in
schools. President Hu has stated the positive role that
religious believers can play in society. With that in mind,
Ambassador Hanford asked, do Chinese educational materials
foster respect or disrespect toward religion? Do they
heavily stress atheism?

BROADER ISSUES: CHURCH REGISTRATION, EXPULSIONS OF AMERICAN
CITIZENS FOR RELIGIOUS ACTIVITIES, AND RELIGIOUS PRACTICES
REGARDED AS SACRED (HAJJ AND REINCARNATION)
-------------- --------------


17. (C) Ambassador Hanford turned to three broader issues:
registration, religious traditions considered sacred by
Tibetan Buddhists and Uighur Muslims and the Government's
treatment of American religious believers in China.
Ambassador Hanford raised the issue of registration of
churches and other places of worship and welcomed the 2005
enactment of the Chinese Government's Regulation on Religious
Affairs, which the United States understands is intended in
part to clarify the procedures for registering religious
groups. There is widespread support for the registration of
greater numbers of religious groups, but it is surprising
that more groups have not been allowed to register to date.
To allow religious groups to have a full role in building a
harmonious society, these groups must have a legal place in
society. Unfortunately, the channel for registration is not
effectively serving this function for the vast numbers of
peace-loving, law-abiding citizens of various faiths in
China. Some groups have tried to register over a period of
months or years, but without success. Their applications
were not accepted by local officials or the Central
Government.


18. (C) There is also a problem with the relationship between
religious groups and official institutions, Ambassador
Hanford observed. Many religious groups hold peaceful,
patriotic views, and yet their exact views on theological or
religious matters may not be exactly identical to those held
by the five major patriotic organizations. These religious
groups will not register if they have to change their beliefs
or accept supervision by one of the five patriotic
organizations or the Central Government. In the past, the
Chinese Government expressed concerns that some of these
groups might be dangerous cults, and said that some have
violent intentions. The USG approach differs from that of
the Chinese Government in that United States supports the
free expression of religious views everywhere, including in
religious venues. When it comes to registering, the Chinese
Government works with additional sensitivities and
restrictiveness. Nevertheless, Ambassador Hanford urged
Chinese authorities to quickly begin registering religious
groups that are peaceful and non-subversive. These groups
could contribute greatly to the national effort to build a
"Harmonious Society." By registering these groups, China
would increase these groups' transparency and open lines of
communication between religious groups and the Chinese
Government. Ambassador Hanford stressed that members of
groups that are legal have more of a stake in society and are
less vulnerable to radical ideologies.


19. (C) Hong Kong offers a good example, Ambassador Hanford
said. Religious groups are autonomous and run by and large
by Chinese citizens of Hong Kong. They play a positive role
in serving the social, economic and spiritual needs of people
in Hong Kong. Registration is easy, so most groups register
voluntarily. They may have different beliefs, but they are
peaceful, patriotic and have good relations with the
Government.


20. (C) Ambassador Hanford expressed concern regarding
reports that the Government has expelled more than one
hundred foreigners (many of them American citizens) from
China for their alleged illegal religious activities, mostly
from the province of Xinjiang. He noted reports that
American businesses have also been subjected to
discrimination because of their faith-based business
principles. He urged the Chinese Government not to punish
American citizens for peaceful religious activities. (NOTE:
The Government accused many of the expelled foreigners of

BEIJING 00002827 005 OF 006


violating Articles 8 and 9 of China's Regulation on the
Management of Foreigners' Religious Activities" by
proselytizing. However, many of the American citizens deny
having proselytized.)


21. (C) Ambassador Hanford said that the Government has
enacted restrictions that infringe upon sacred religious
traditions of Tibetan Buddhists and Uighur Muslims. As an
example, Ambassador Hanford cited the freedom to select
spiritual leaders, which is violated by a new measure that
asserts Government control over the selection of "reincarnate
living Buddhas." Ambassador Hanford stated that this measure
is hard to understand, because the Chinese Communist Party
does not allow its members to hold religious beliefs, and yet
considers itself capable of discerning the appropriate
spiritual leadership of a religious group. In addition,
Ambassador Hanford urged the Chinese Government to revise
policies that restrict travel between monasteries by Tibetan
monks and to cease the patriotic education campaigns in Tibet
that are pushing Tibetans to denounce the Dalai Lama.


22. (C) On the Muslim issues of the Hajj pilgrimage and
Ramadan celebrations, Ambassador Hanford asked the Chinese
Government to loosen existing restrictions. The United
States shares China's great concern regarding combating
radical Islam, to the point where Ambassador Hanford has
devoted a great deal of effort in his position to convince
Saudi Arabia to moderate its educational materials, which it
has agreed to do beginning this school year. These
educational materials are distributed all over the world, and
so are influential in determining whether young people in
Muslim communities throughout the world become radicalized.
The United States understands Chinese concerns regarding
radical Islam, but notes that in recent years there have been
few terrorist incidents in China. Ambassador Hanford noted
reports that Uighurs are prohibited from going on the Hajj
unless they travel with an approved group, and that Hajj
participants must be between 50 and 70 years old and may not
depart from a third country. These are severe restrictions,
he said. He asked China to consider lifting reported
restrictions on praying and fasting during Ramadan,
particularly for government workers, students and Communist
Party members.

CHINESE RESPONSE FOCUSED ON EDUCATION AND REGISTRATION
-------------- --------------


23. (C) DG Wu Hailong asked SARA Foreign Affairs Department
DG Guo Wei to respond. Guo noted that the United States and
China agree on some issues and disagree on others, but
Chinese policy remains "consistent and clear-cut." Guo
stated that China has made progress on religion in many ways
and that its policies are consistent. China's constitution
stipulates that all citizens enjoy freedom of religious
belief and, since children are citizens, that right extends
even to those under the age of 18, Guo stated. The
Constitution also stipulates that no one can use religion to
disrupt the state education system; as a result, the law on
education states that China practices separation of religion
and education. Religious education is not a component of
public education in China.


24. (C) Religious education in China is carried out in
seminaries, Guo continued, in the form of training of
religious workers. In the case of minors who follow their
parents to church and receive church services, the Government
never interferes. Guo highlighted that religion is widely
practiced among ethnic minorities, and that the children in
these minority groups are taught their religion by their
parents or guardians without any Government interference.
There are special courses held in churches for minors, one of
which Secretary Rice visited.


25. (C) House church registration and meetings raise two
issues in China. The first is the registration of religious
groups. According to Chinese law, religious groups should
apply for registration with the Ministry of Civil Affairs
(MCA) as a civil organization. The registration of religious
sites (of religious groups registered with the MCA) should be
done with the local bureau of religious affairs. At all
levels, including state, provincial and county, there are
thousands of religious groups registered with the Ministry of
Civil Affairs. Conditions for registration are the same as
for any other civil organization. Some religious groups that
wait months or years before receiving a denial should
undertake "administrative lawsuits" against the offending
agency.


BEIJING 00002827 006 OF 006



26. (C) "House meetings" are different in China than they are
in the West. In China, friends and family are permitted to
carry out "house meetings" that consist of Bible study or
prayer meetings at home. If house meetings do not disrupt
normal order "or make big noises," they will be permitted.
"House meetings" are not the same as Western "house
churches." Guo noted that as far as she knows, in Beijing
many believers practice this kind of house meeting, and some
of the participants go to registered churches. The problem
occurs when "so-called" house meetings grow to become
large-scale home churches attracting hundreds or even a
thousand people at a time. This far exceeds the definition
of "friends and family." These acts are not Bible study or
prayer, Guo emphasized. They include developing the church
organization, recruiting new members and other activities
that require a trained religious worker in accordance with
rules and regulations. This is contrary to the teaching of
Protestantism, she said.
There are other complicating factors involved, she continued.
For example, some people carry out acts to make money
through their house churches, or they receive support or
influence from outside the country. The Chinese Government
must persuade and educate those who commit these acts and
encourage them to pursue their religious activities in an
actual church. Ambassador Hanford responded by saying that
he would discuss these and other issues in greater detail at
his meeting with the State Administration for Religious
Affairs (SARA) the following day (May 27).

A/S KRAMER RAISES KEY TIBET POINTS
--------------


27. (C) A/S Kramer raised the issue of Tibet again in the
afternoon session, expanding on points made in the morning
session. He noted three key points:

- The families of those detained after the March protests
lack information concerning their loved ones' whereabouts.
It would be very helpful and positive for them to have this
information.

- Lawyers have offered to defend the Tibetan detainees but
have not been allowed to do so. Instead, these lawyers have
been harassed and theatened with the possibility of losing
their aw licenses. A/S Kramer urged China to ensure hat no
punitive action is taken against the lawyers. The United
States urged China to provide detainees with due process of
law.

- The patriotic education campaigns that require Tibetans to
denounce the Dalai Lama are of great concern. These
campaigns may trigger the exact opposite response to the one
intended. Denouncing the Dalai Lama is extremely difficult
for Tibetan people and will exacerbate tensions and cause
further problems. A/S Kramer noted that that he planned to
continue the day's discussion on Tibet over dinner and during
meetings scheduled for May 27.


28. (C) In closing, Director General Wu noted that the
resumption of the U.S.-China human rights dialogue after six
years sends a positive signal to the world that both
governments are willing to approach differences in a
constructive manner and to turn the human rights issue into a
positive issue in bilateral relations. The hope is that the
United States will have a better understanding of conditions
in China, and the two sides will be able to exchange
information on sensitive issues and realize agreement on a
number of issues. Though it is impossible to narrow all of
our differences, Wu said, this human rights dialogue offers a
"sound starting point."


29. (C) The traveling party cleared this cable.
PICCUTA