HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE: HRD DELEGATION'S MAY 27

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 BEIJING 002484

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/24/2033
TAGS: PHUM PREL KOLY CH UN
SUBJECT: HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE: HRD DELEGATION'S MAY 27
MEETING WITH PRC UNITED FRONT WORK DEPARTMENT

Classified By: Acting Political Section Chief Ben Moeling.
Reasons 1.4 (b) and (d).


1. (U) May 27, 2008; 9:00 a.m.; Beijing, United Front Work
Department.


2. (U) Participants:

United States
--------------

David J. Kramer, Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy,
Human Rights, and Labor
John V. Hanford, Ambassador at Large for International
Religious Freedom
Thomas Christensen, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for
East Asian and Pacific Affairs
Robert K. Harris, Assistant Legal Advisor, Department of State
Richard W. Behrend, PRM Advisor, Department of State
Susan O'Sullivan, Senior Advisor, Bureau of Democracy, Human
Rights, and Labor, Department of State
Eric Barboriak, First Secretary, Embassy Beijing (notetaker)
Emilie L. Kao, Foreign Affairs Officer, Bureau of Democracy
Human Rights, and Labor, International Religious Freedom,
Department of State
Jeannette M. Windon, Special Assistant, Office of Democracy
and Global Affairs, Department of State
Andrea Goodman, Political Officer, Bureau of East Asian and
Pacific Affairs, Department of State
Vicky Segal, Interpreter

PRC
---

Si Ta, Vice Minister, United Front Work Department
Yang Shaokun, Director, UN Specialized Agency Division,
Department of International Organizations and Conferences,
Liu Yi Bing, Director, Tibet Division, United Front Work
Department
Zhang Xinyi, Staff, United Front Work Department
Fang Qiang, Interpreter, MFA

Summary
--------------


3. (C) Welcoming the resumption of talks between the Chinese
Government and representatives of the Dalai Lama, A/S Kramer
stressed that the dialogue should bring concrete results.
United Front Work Department Vice Minister Si Ta said China
is open to continued dialogue as long as the "Dalai side"
ceases supporting separatist activities, disrupting the
Olympic Games and inciting violence and terrorist activities
in Tibet and other areas. Vice Minister Si Ta acknowledged
that the Dalai Lama claims to have fulfilled these
requirements, but his actions indicate that he is
"insincere." A/S Kramer cautioned against attributing to the
Dalai Lama actions and responsibilities outside his control.
He also stated that the Chinese Government's accelerated
campaign of patriotic education for monks may have the exact
opposite effect intended by Chinese authorities. Ambassador
Hanford urged the Chinese Government not to insert itself
into the selection of Tibetan Buddhist religious leaders and
to allow access to the Panchen Lama. DAS Christensen
encouraged the Chinese Government to achieve results through
dialogue with representatives of the Dalai Lama. Failure to
achieve results through dialogue will likely lead to further
instability in Tibet by strengthening the position of
Tibetans who do not support the Dalai Lama's non-violent
methods to achieve their goals. End Summary.


4. (C) A/S Kramer stated that the United States welcomes the
resumption of the dialogue between the Chinese Government and
representatives of the Dalai Lama. He expressed his strong
hope that the dialogue will be constructive and bring
practical results. A/S Kramer said that the Dalai Lama has
fulfilled the conditions stipulated by the Chinese Government
for dialogue, noting that the Dalai Lama does not advocate
independence for Tibet, renounces violence, supports the
Beijing Olympics and, in fact, has publicly opposed calls for
a boycott. A/S Kramer stated that the United States hopes
the dialogue will support the religion, culture and language
of Tibet, adding that the United States respects China's
territorial integrity and does not support Tibetan
independence.


5. (C) Vice Minister Si Ta provided basic background on
Tibet, saying that when Tibet was "peacefully liberated" in
1951, its social system was characterized by rulers who
exercised both political and religious authority over a
feudal system. He said that 95 percent of Tibetans had "no

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personal freedom" and were subject to degrading treatment by
local overlords. Democratic reforms launched in 1959
separated religious and political authority and ended
feudalism in Tibet. "Millions" of serfs were freed, Vice
Minister Si Ta said, and human rights in Tibet "realized
remarkable achievements."

Recent Contacts between Chinese Government and Dalai Lama
Representatives
-------------- --------------


6. (C) Vice Minister Si Ta noted that the May 4 meetings
between Chinese Government officials and representatives of
the Dalai Lama represented the latest of approximately 20
rounds of meetings that began in 1979 when Premier Deng
Xiaoping met with the Dalai Lama's older brother. Vice
Minister Si Ta said that the May meeting was originally
planned for November 2007, based on an agreement the two
sides reached at their June 2007 meeting. However, in
October 2007, the U.S. Congress awarded the Congressional
Gold Medal to the Dalai Lama, making the situation "not
conducive to contact." Vice Minister Si Ta further stated
that the two sides discussed the possibility of meeting in
March 2008, but the "smashing, beating, burning, looting"
events of March 14 in Lhasa prevented such a meeting.

"Three Stops"
--------------


7. (C) Vice Minister Si Ta reiterated the Chinese
Government's requirements for continuing the dialogue include
the "Three Stops": stop separatist activities, stop
disrupting the Olympic Games and stop inciting violence and
terrorist activities in Tibet and other areas. While
acknowledging A/S Kramer's statement that the Dalai Lama had
fulfilled these conditions by his public statements, Vice
Minister Si Ta said "we look at both his words and deeds."
He recalled that religious figures "who were persecuted" by
the Dalai Lama recently demonstrated overseas, holding signs
with words to the effect that "the Dalai Lama's smile is
appealing, but his actions are damaging."

Dalai Lama not Sincere
--------------


8. (C) The Vice Minister further suggested that the Dalai
Lama was involved in disruptions of the Olympic torch relay
at various locations overseas and that "incidents and
disruptions" at the Great Wall at Mutianyu and at some
Olympic venues were "directed by elements sent by the Dalai
Lama." The Vice Minister said that Chinese investigations
have revealed that the individuals who committed violent
crimes in Lhasa, Tibet; Aba County, Sichuan Province; and
Xiahe County, Gansu Province, during March 2008 had received
instructions from the Dalai Lama.


9. (C) Despite these activities, the Chinese Government still
keeps "an open door" for dialogue, and discussions with the
Dalai Lama's representatives to schedule the next round of
discussions are ongoing, according to Vice Minister Si Ta.
But up to now, he added, the Dalai Lama has not shown
sincerity. During the meeting on May 4, the Dalai Lama's
representatives claimed to fulfill the "Three Stops," Vice
Minister Si Ta said, but on May 12, during the terrible
earthquake in Sichuan Province, they "continued to carry out
(separatist) activities." On May 18-19, the Dalai Lama sent
people to demonstrate at Chinese diplomatic missions overseas
and many of his followers still wish to carry out a march to
Tibet from India, which would disrupt social stability in
Tibet.

Dalai Lama's Authority not Absolute
--------------


10. (C) A/S Kramer suggested that like those who wrongly
attribute the various "color revolutions" in Eastern Europe
to U.S. influence, many people inappropriately attribute some
actions to the Dalai Lama and claim he has authority that he
does not. A/S Kramer pointed out that the Dalai Lama is an
influential figure and has many followers throughout the
world, but he does not control all of his them. A/S Kramer
expressed strong doubt that the Dalai Lama ordered his
followers to commit the violent acts for which he has been
blamed, noting the practical impossibilities of the
communications necessary to direct such activities. A/S
Kramer said the Dalai Lama's own words take on more
importance given that he is not in control of an army, not in
control of a government and is a religious leader influential
with Tibetans. A close reexamination of his statements will
reveal that the Dalai Lama has met the conditions stipulated

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by the Chinese Government, A/S Kramer said. He added that
the role of the United States is not to "micromanage" the
dialogue process but to encourage the Chinese Government and
the representatives of the Dalai Lama to develop the most
appropriate solutions to longstanding issues together.

Patriotic Education of Monks
--------------


11. (C) A/S Kramer raised U.S. concerns that China is
accelerating its patriotic education campaign for monks,
which, by forcing Tibetan monks to renounce the Dalai Lama,
may have the exact opposite effect the Chinese Government
intends. Vice Minister Si Ta responded that education in
temples and monasteries is "necessary in our country," but
the Chinese Government has not adopted a policy to force
monks to sign their names to documents against their will or
denounce the Dalai Lama. Since the events in March, Chinese
authorities have been teaching monks about what activities
are illegal and also informing them about their lawful rights.

Open Access to Judicial Proceedings Related to 3/14
-------------- --------------


12. (C) A/S Kramer urged the Chinese Government to ensure
trials of individuals arrested in connection with the March
incidents in Tibet are open and transparent and to allow
observers to attend the proceedings. A/S Kramer further
urged that lawyers be allowed to represent the accused
without fear of negative consequences.

Method to Choose Religious Leaders
--------------


13. (C) Ambassador Hanford observed that Chinese
interlocutors often insist that church and state matters
should be separate, yet the Chinese Government inserts itself
directly in religious affairs in the matter of choosing
religious leaders. He noted the irony that the Chinese
Communist Party does not allow its members to have religious
affiliations, yet the Party chooses spiritual leaders in
Tibet. Welcoming the positive remarks President Hu Jintao
expressed on the constructive role religion can play,
Ambassador Hanford expressed the hope that religious
believers and leaders could be part of the government, but
stressed that the government should respect the will of
religious groups in choosing their leadership.


14. (C) Vice Minister Si Ta said that the Chinese Government
in 2007 issued measures on the reincarnation of living
Buddhas. Those measures are aimed at protecting the unique
historic conventions and rituals in Tibetan Buddhism,
according to Si Ta. Regulations on reincarnation are not
new, Si Ta said, noting that the Qing Dynasty also
promulgated rules on reincarnation, citing the "Golden Urn"
tradition in which the Qing drew lots from a golden urn to
determine the next incarnate lama. Vice Minister Si Ta said
China also draws lessons from other countries, where
religious leaders may be chosen by the religious community
but must be confirmed by the head of state. Vice Minister Si
Ta stated that the Chinese Government will not interfere in
or disrupt personal expressions of faith as long as those
expressions do not interfere with "social life." "There must
be a balance between religion and society," he said.


15. (C) Ambassador Hanford noted that Qing Dynasty leaders
were devout Buddhists, which made the nature of their control
over the incarnation process substantively different than a
secular government choosing religious leaders.

Access to the Eleventh Panchen Lama
--------------


16. (C) Ambassador Hanford requested that independent
observers be given access to the boy recognized by the Dalai
Lama as the 11th Panchen Lama, noting that he is now 18 years
old. Vice Minster Si Ta said that Gendun Choekyi Nyima is
not the 11th Panchen Lama, because he was not chosen
according to custom and tradition. "He's just an ordinary
Chinese boy," Vice Minister Si Ta said, who is currently
receiving a good education and who "doesn't want to be in
front of the camera."


17. (C) Vice Minister Si Ta stressed that Tibet is a
"treasure, a shining pearl" of Chinese culture and that
attitude is reflected in Chinese Government policies that
support the development and preservation of culture in Tibet.
Vice Minister Si Ta noted that in the 10th Five-Year Plan,
the Chinese Government allocated RMB 300 million to restore
Tibetan temples and the Chinese Government will allocate a

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further RMB 600 million in the 11th Five-Year Plan.

More Freedom for Religious Groups
--------------


18. (C) Ambassador Hanford said he hoped the registration
requirements for different religious groups would be
liberalized to allow for more places of worship. He said
that Beijing offers a perfect example of the need for more
religious sites, noting that Beijing, with a population of 17
million, has very few places of worship for Protestants,
Catholics and other religious groups. Ambassador Hanford
noted that many Christian groups would like to obtain legal
status through registration but do not wish to affiliate with
the official patriotic churches. Ambassador Hanford said
Hong Kong offers a good example of a facilitative posture for
church registration.


19. (C) In discussing Xinjiang, Ambassador Hanford stated
that the United States and China share a common interest in
combating terrorism. Ambassador Hanford cited the example of
his work with the Government of Saudi Arabia in removing
language from educational materials which advocates hatred.
Ambassador Hanford urged the Chinese Government to remove
restrictions on Uighurs who wish to participate in the Hajj
and on the observance of Ramadan in some areas, and to allow
greater religious-based education for Uighur youth.

Failure of Dialogue Will Likely Lead to Further Instability
-------------- --------------


20. (C) DAS Christensen stressed that the United States wants
to see a stable China, and that President Bush will attend
what we hope and expect will be a successful Olympic Games.
The United States recognizes Tibet as part of China and has
spoken out early and consistently against violence by all
sides in Tibet, he said. The United States does not view the
Tibetan community as a monolithic body under complete control
of the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama is an influential person
whom many people respect and admire, but some of his
followers are frustrated with the peaceful methods the Dalai
Lama has advocated. DAS Christensen noted the "widespread
frustration" felt by some members of the Tibetan community
who wish to see progress on attaining their aspirations of
autonomy regardless of the method used. The key issue in
this context is that the Chinese Government has a window of
opportunity to hold a constructive dialogue with
representatives of the Dalai Lama, who, fulfilling Chinese
demands, rejects independence for Tibet and supports peaceful
means and a successful Olympics. The danger is that more
violent elements, frustrated by the peaceful strategy of the
Dalai Lama, will gain more prominence and influence in the
Tibetan community should the dialogue not produce results,
thereby decreasing the chances for stability in Tibet. The
United States views the resumption of the dialogue as a wise
decision by the Chinese Government and a sign of strength and
confidence, but the dialogue must produce results to be truly
successful.


21. (C) Vice Minister Si Ta said the United States and China
have developed lasting relations since World War II, when
both sides fought against fascism. The two countries share
common interests and should expand consensus and cooperation
but not allow the issue of the Dalai Lama to become an
obstacle that disrupts relations. Vice Minister Si Ta
reiterated that the Chinese Government is keeping "the door
open" and maintains a positive attitude towards extending a
results-oriented dialogue with representatives of the Dalai
Lama.


22. (U) The delegation cleared this cable.
RANDT